Why everyone likes Karkand: NO AIRCRAFT.

[POWER]

It's also why people prefer Mashtuur City and Sharqi as well. Even though the last two have helos, they don't have jets. Jets really ruin this game. If you're not in one, you can't kill one. If your team has really crappy and/or no pilots, then you just get raped by the one or two jets from the opposing team.

You can't shoot them down with the Stingers/IGLAs except by pure luck. You can't kill them with helos and/or any other vehicles except by pure luck as well. Against tanks we have AT kits. Even though an M1 is extremely powerful, 2-3 AT guys can take one down almost instantly. The jets don't have a counter like this.

If there were an AA kit that had a Stinger launcher with 2-3 backup missiles, and the missiles were about twice as effective as they are now, I'd say it would be fair to include jets in maps. Currently, were the Stinger/IGLA placements are, the area of coverage of the maps is horrible. You don't have direct view of the aircraft ingress/egress, no line of sight, and trees/buildings are *ALWAYS* in the way. I know it's designed like that on purpose. I just think it's a bad design descision.

Personally I think it would be a great idea to design more maps that are more limited in the way of vehicles. I'd love to see maps where the heaviest vehicles on the map is an LAV/BMP, with plenty of Humvees and buggies to get around in. You don't see anyone complaining about Humvees/buggies being overpowered. Everyone likes them. They're balanced, and it's fun.

A lot of damage can be dealt if you have a good driver/gunner in a Humvee. It surprises me that this is the only vehicle (not counting the MEC/Chinese counterparts) that requires a driver/gunner to be effective. I would have thought that DICE would have required at *least* a Driver/Gunner for the LAVs and MBTs.

A guy named Universal_Soldier and I were playing on Kubra Dam last night and we were both scoring over 100 each game by being a pilot/gunner in a Cobra. No voice comms, we just knew what we were doing and were both excellent pilots/gunners, so we knew what each other were thinking w/o requiring communication. I think that kind of teamwork should be rewarded. Jets don't need that kind of thing to be 100% effective.

Yeah, I know the F15s etc. have LGMs, but those suck compared to just using the bombs at low speed. By the time you can get a lock, you've already flown past your targets.

Anyway, jets suck. And not cause I get "pwned" by them. I can fly them and kill with them just as easily as anyone, but it's not fair and it's not fun.

[Carpface]

Well I like those city maps more because because they lack all sorts of vehicles, not just jets. But I do find them annoying too from time to time.

[POWER]

Well, that's my point also. Less vehicles = more fun. Fun being infantry combat. If vehicles are around, and you're not in one, you're screwed.

[a1pointguard]

I agree with you, they are pretty gay/annoying most of the time. Where is the stupid player's stinger like in DC?

[rombaft]

You maybe right, karkand with aircrafts would make it a total other kind of map with maybe less succes.

The reasons why I like karkand.
It's real infantry based, and there is room for each kind of infantry, the AT, medic, support, spec ops, eng, sniper, all classes have there work on this map.

Also, on foor, you don't have to walk for 10min and swim another 5 wothout seeing someone to reach the battle.

Close combat, nice and typical graphics creates feeling on this map.

[$G-MONEY SMITH$]

I think a chopper would make this map a blast. Attack choppers for both teams. The mec attack chopper would own due to its auto cannon.

[Umi.Ryuuzaki]

Karkand is nice, but i would like to see other variations...

[UnrealAlex]

No.
People like them because its urban maps where u gain points fastest.

[Sniper_13]

cause its easy to kill people. and TANK just pure ownage

[MindBlowing]

I hate them, full of grenades and eryx noobs respawning after you killed them with a tank ...

[Ramseus]

The majority of people in the majority of games (who aren't air whores) tend to prefer CQB (close quarters battle) not because of the lack of air power, the arty is much worse IMO, but because you don't have to drive a kilometer just to flank a base. You just spawn and you're right in the action. And if all the planes are in the air, there's not going to be much bombing going on anyways because you have one guy just trying to stay alive and a guy on his tail focusing 98% on him and 2% on not crashing into the terrain.

[DeathFromAbove]

I like it because your in the action as soon as you spawn.

I was born a raised it Karkand and I have been living there for 96 hours

[dwuf76]

I like the fact that its infantry combat for the most part..Im still waiting for a pure infantry based map. Sometimes you just don't feeel like dealing with jets-tanks-choppers

[$G-MONEY SMITH$]

Oh yes, and if you compare a score from say, fushe pass and karkand, in Fushe id get like 15 to 20 points maybe, and in karkand I get like 45 to 50 so people gain rank easier in karkand.

[BH|Recon]

i tend to agree here... as much as i like the game.. theres no chance of a jet outrunning stinger missiles.. maybe one if they are lucky.. but why can i unload a whole aa tanks stinger supply on one jet and not get a hit.. i think the jets just need their speed nerfed a bit and that would fix the issue since at this point only jets can kill jets and like said above that requires a good pilot or 2 on each side.

[DeathFromAbove]

Oh yes, and if you compare a score from say, fushe pass and karkand, in Fushe id get like 15 to 20 points maybe, and in karkand I get like 45 to 50 so people gain rank easier in karkand.


I gain rank easier in all MEC maps but China :laugh: I think it's China thats not doing so well. It's not really about gaining rank easier it's just the joy of walking down a hallway giving people haircuts with a PKM, you can't do that in China.

[ConscriptVirus]

see jet fighitng is more of their own world...they cant really do anyhting in the game except drop stuff from the skies and shoot each other down...they cant capture the flag or do the other stuff that bf2 offers...so its like their own world

[ConscriptVirus]

plus i would like to see a vehicle that can take jets out easily like in that loop footage of bf2 where that aa vehicle taking out the jet and making it look easy

[Catch28]

I like the fact that its infantry combat for the most part..Im still waiting for a pure infantry based map. Sometimes you just don't feeel like dealing with jets-tanks-choppers

you get infantry combat more in SF so that will help this

[Eglaerinion]

Well infantry only is basicly a dumbed down version of BF where you have only one aspect to worry about. The great thing about BF is that there are more aspects to the game making it more challenging and that requires more skill, tactical insight and patience.

But ontopic I think the missiles need to be faster and more manouvrable than planes, this makes them more realistic and better balanced.

[imported_dumbo]

IMHO, the reasons those maps are well liked:
[a] they're (relatively) small, you can get around them fast, learn the maps fast, and are rarely a long way from the action. There are also relatively few flags - meaning you can actually try to defend them (unless you get artillery dropped on your head every 30 seconds).
[b] there are no aircraft.
[c] there are few 'heavy' vehicles.

The 'fun' is drained out of BF2 whenever you get 'rock-paper-scissors' except there are only rocks and paper, and you've got the paper. (e.g. most of the time you're on foot vs a 'heavy vehicle'/aircraft/helicopter, and for me, when I run into someone with a GP-203 at close range).

[Do0minator]

Actually, the choppers are as messed up as the jets, probably even more so.

But, you're right, Karkand is popular because there is no air power. If it were simply close quarters combat, then Mashtuur and others would be popular, but they're not, since choppers just roam around those maps, controlling the game.

Most maps with carriers are strictly air maps; all the ground forces can do is try not to present a target to the more or less invulnerable choppers, what with their incredible armor, incredible firepower, top of the line speed (except for jets, which otherwise have all the advantages of choppers), FREE fast repair and free fast weapon reload.

Oh, and air units are also immune to the incredibly broken C4.

Take care,

Rick

[SmilingRaccoon]

City maps are fun because they are the most balanced more or less, any non city map half the time your stuck without a vechical and here comes a bomber or a tank or a apc and you sir are f***ed. In karkand theres 3 vechicals all of which are easyer to kill since spec ops can c4 them a LOT easyer with all the allys and AT can peak out and fire with cover with more ease on these maps. Theres no walking miles to the next flag or waiting for one stupid buggy so you can get to the flag. You just spawn and fight like mad in city maps. In the other 2 there are a few more but still minimal vechicals, some air powers but few and far between.

[machstem]

Well, that's my point also. Less vehicles = more fun. Fun being infantry combat. If vehicles are around, and you're not in one, you're screwed.

You know, the reason why most people play Battlefield series is BECAUSE OF THE VEHICLES.

I love the fact that I can get into a variety of vehicles, and be able to switch back and forth.

If it's infantry you're looking for, play COD or CS: Source or something. Tanks, jeeps, boats, jets, helis...it's what I bought the game for. Why would you buy a game called "battlefield" without vehicles?

Doesn't make sense!

I personally am a helicopter fanatic, but can't handle ONLY being in a helicopter, so that's why I picked this game up. I don't know why people complain about the helicopters being such a pain in the butt, like the blackhawk or cobra. If you really want to take one down, sit in a jeep, not an AA, and it'll take it down in about one sitting. In the helicopter, well, I can't say I have a problem dodging AA missiles and jets, rarely do I get killed by them, it's always a FAV or if my gunner is too stupid to kill the mounted AA.

My .02

PEACE

[DeathFromAbove]

You know, the reason why most people play Battlefield series is BECAUSE OF THE VEHICLES.

I love the fact that I can get into a variety of vehicles, and be able to switch back and forth.

If it's infantry you're looking for, play COD or CS: Source or something. Tanks, jeeps, boats, jets, helis...it's what I bought the game for. Why would you buy a game called "battlefield" without vehicles?

Doesn't make sense!


ROFL!!! you don't make sense!

[Real_2St0n3d]

I allways will turn to Karkand for my first round, to get in to things.. sometimes I'll disconnect somewhere and find another server running S@K

I love the arguement that S@K is a 'stat padder map'.

If you're in a helo with a good gunner in, for example, Kubra Dam, getting scores of over 100 easy, is that stat padding too? all CO's who are efficient, using Arty to effect and helping his squad is evil too I guess?

Maybe we should throw down the weapons and stop playing then.. there's allways a whiner who will see something he don't like and condemn it, regardless if it's cheating or not.

I'll keep playing the maps I like.. and I'm sure everybody feels the same way.. I'm not a stat padder as my k/d ratio should prove.. Improving slowly but surely :)
And when I am sick and tired of heli- and plane wh0res (?) I'll play another round of Karkand and grin when someone calls me a noob or worse. Somehow it's allways the whiners who end up underneath a tank.. there is allways an option to disconnect if you're really upset..

[machstem]

I agree. As long as two or three people aren't in the far ends of a map doing that padding, then it's part of the game. You're flying around, helping your team capture and kill...if EA/DICE didn't want it in their game, they would have taken it out. Personally, I enjoy every map they have, I'm a big fan of variety. I wish they would have included more maps though, personally!

PEACE


I allways will turn to Karkand for my first round, to get in to things.. sometimes I'll disconnect somewhere and find another server running S@K

I love the arguement that S@K is a 'stat padder map'.

If you're in a helo with a good gunner in, for example, Kubra Dam, getting scores of over 100 easy, is that stat padding too? all CO's who are efficient, using Arty to effect and helping his squad is evil too I guess?

Maybe we should throw down the weapons and stop playing then.. there's allways a whiner who will see something he don't like and condemn it, regardless if it's cheating or not.

I'll keep playing the maps I like.. and I'm sure everybody feels the same way.. I'm not a stat padder as my k/d ratio should prove.. Improving slowly but surely :)
And when I am sick and tired of heli- and plane wh0res (?) I'll play another round of Karkand and grin when someone calls me a noob or worse. Somehow it's allways the whiners who end up underneath a tank.. there is allways an option to disconnect if you're really upset..

[Brucewillis2]

Yip, something has to be done about those planes... the AA on the US carriers seem to be marginally effective against planes but that's where it stops. Maybe we're just not doing something right with those stingers.

Nothing wrong with any other vehicle, they all have their place and add to the game... planes do not.

Every since having a few great games as an anti-tank I no longer worry about heavy tanks or APC's especially when you have a few other anti tanks in your squad with a support guy to back you up. In fact we enjoy seeing a few tanks roll our way... light them up for a while so they panic then unleash a three prong attack... instant smoking wreckage.

[Bongwater]

people like karland cause its constant action in all areas.

[triple]

ok karkand with

a) no artillery
b) no tanks or apcs

man that would be the perfect map right there.

[bam23]

Give the jet flyers a map like BF1942's Coral Sea.

[=HPSF=Dr.Doom]

I totally agree,

People like Karkand becuase it acutally HAS a front line. Front line = battles = killing = fun.

Transport choppers = no front line = no strat = no fun

This is why people like Karkand....being able to fly over everything to whatever flag you want makes maps more boring.

IMO transport choppers ruin the intensity of the game.

[POWER]

To the (one) guy that mentioned that BF2 is about vehicles and infantry: I agree. However, I think that those elements need to be *BALANCED*. Right now they're not. Especially the jets.

To the guys who are saying that the major reason people like Karkand is because of the stats: I am fully capable of getting 120+ points on Kubra Dam, Dalian Plant, Gulf of Oman, etc. Put me in a Helo and watch the fur fly (good gunner required for best results).

Don't get me wrong, I LIKE vehicles. The thing is, with the way the game is currently, if you're not in a vehicle, you're SCREWED. End of story. Heck, I laugh all the way to the stat point bank as I happily camp the streets of Karkand with my BMP/LAV/MBT etc. clobbering all the hapless infantry. I do it as a sort of game balance terrorist tactic. I figure if I do it often enough, people will complain about it enough so that something is done about it.

Meanwhile, keep those 100+ point games rolling in....

[Lt.Kris]

Well, that's my point also. Less vehicles = more fun. Fun being infantry combat. If vehicles are around, and you're not in one, you're screwed.

yeah, too many vehicles mess up the fun, only thing is sometimes the bh whores get annoying but its fun when u shoot them down and get 6+ kills and they call u a hacker and start a kick vote against you.:laugh:

[BarkingSquirrel]

"Why everyone likes Karkand:"

Because they're all CS nubs, duh.

People who can't deal with all aspects of the game really shouldn't playing the game. Watch, I guarantee these same people will get EA/DICE to make every new map infantry only completely destroying what Battlefield is all about - Watch.

[POWER]

"Why everyone likes Karkand:"

Because they're all CS nubs, duh.

People who can't deal with all aspects of the game really shouldn't playing the game. Watch, I guarantee these same people will get EA/DICE to make every new map infantry only completely destroying what Battlefield is all about - Watch.

Again, it's people like you who are COMPLETELY missing my point. I don't want vehicles (jets) GONE. I want them BALANCED. Jets would be fun if an infantryman could spawn with an AA kit and have a decent chance of defending himself. The game would be self-limiting. Too many hotshot jet pilots? You'd see half the enemy spawning with AA kits. Same thing happens with tanks. If you see a well coordinated tank offense/defence with multiple tanks with engineers supporting each other, all of a sudden every other enemy troops is sporting AT. Happens ALL the time. It's called game balance. Tanks have it, jets don't.

[Hollister360]

i like them because ythere like black haw kdown

[shadow_wolf]

Karkand would be better with no tanks/APCs

down with vehicles :p

[Colonel Sanders]

What i think would be cool is if they had a couple of levels like Karkand but where they had no helos, no jets, and no armor. make it just infantry combat and instead of armor put FAVs, humvees etc in. I realy like Karkand and wish they made more maps like it

[Real_2St0n3d]

used to be in a league who made a minimod of DC (called 21st century warfare)

anti tank kit had a couple stingers on him as well as AT rockets.. maybe not big on realism but it sure did a good job of balancing things a bit! Helo's/planes still where dangerous, but once you got them figured out after some practice, they where managable! speed didn't need to be altered or nothing, just the stingers, for a lot less frustration on the ground :cool:

[BarkingSquirrel]

Again, it's people like you who are COMPLETELY missing my point. I don't want vehicles (jets) GONE. I want them BALANCED. Jets would be fun if an infantryman could spawn with an AA kit and have a decent chance of defending himself. The game would be self-limiting. Too many hotshot jet pilots? You'd see half the enemy spawning with AA kits. Same thing happens with tanks. If you see a well coordinated tank offense/defence with multiple tanks with engineers supporting each other, all of a sudden every other enemy troops is sporting AT. Happens ALL the time. It's called game balance. Tanks have it, jets don't.

Stingers work just fine against jets, as long as you're not being a retard and firing them perpendicular to the flightpath. Helos could be fixed by simply slowing down the flare reload, or not being a complete idiot about how you fire at them.

Just because you are completely and utterly incompetent about how to defend yourself, doesn't mean its not unbalanced. Fix the veering off for no reason, fix the flare reload, and don't be a retard. Bingo, problem solved.

I'm also sick of these retards who lock onto me with a stinger, miss due to being incompetent, stay in the damn thing, then whine because I came back and blew it up.

[DeathFromAbove]

"Why everyone likes Karkand:"

Because they're all CS nubs, duh.

People who can't deal with all aspects of the game really shouldn't playing the game. Watch, I guarantee these same people will get EA/DICE to make every new map infantry only completely destroying what Battlefield is all about - Watch.

WTF are you talking about I never play CS...

[POWER]

Stingers work just fine against jets, as long as you're not being a retard and firing them perpendicular to the flightpath. Helos could be fixed by simply slowing down the flare reload, or not being a complete idiot about how you fire at them.

Just because you are completely and utterly incompetent about how to defend yourself, doesn't mean its not unbalanced. Fix the veering off for no reason, fix the flare reload, and don't be a retard. Bingo, problem solved.

I'm also sick of these retards who lock onto me with a stinger, miss due to being incompetent, stay in the damn thing, then whine because I came back and blew it up.

Don't admit that there's things wrong with the game (flare reload, missiles veering off for no reason) and call me incompetent in the same breath. You're a jerk for making this personal. Furthermore, I probably have more success with the Stingers than probably 90% of players out there, yet I still think they absolutely suck for their intended job.

The missile guidance algorithms in the game suck, as well as the missiles just being bugged in general. It needs to be fixed. And man portable Stingers wouldn't hurt anything either, especially against jets. I think that if the missiles were actually effective against jets, they'd be too effective against helos. Therefore I suggest that the helos have more effective countermeasures (flares) than the jets.

[Colonel Sanders]

Stingers work just fine against jets, as long as you're not being a retard and firing them perpendicular to the flightpath. Helos could be fixed by simply slowing down the flare reload, or not being a complete idiot about how you fire at them.
The only problem with stingers is that people know exactly where they are, so when they see the lock on signal they know its the nearest stinger probably and they shoot at the stinger sight,
The best thing to do, in my opinion, is to take off the warning device that says they have locked on to you out of the game, take it off the helis, jets, and armor. If you take it off it will be much more balanced for the infantry

[[Tex]Headinjury]

I agree they need balancing, also add a map like No Fly Zone and one like the all-armour map in DC. There were so many tanks/planes on those maps pretty much everyone got to ride something.

[Pilioka]

Um. No.

Infantry. Straight forward infantry. Two tanks, one LAV, and a buncha cars. You can get to each flag on foot and fight infantry. Who cares about air craft. Same reason I like Sharqi. Get to every flag on foot. Fight on foot. Run into armor now and then but oh well.

[Colonel Sanders]

Another thing i would like to see go away is when something explodes near you it makes you go blurry for like 10 seconds, this is so anoying since even if someone with a m203 misses you, they make you go dizzy and its an easy kill

[POWER]

Another thing i would like to see go away is when something explodes near you it makes you go blurry for like 10 seconds, this is so anoying since even if someone with a m203 misses you, they make you go dizzy and its an easy kill

I actually like the fuzzy effect. IMO it would also be cool if that happened when you fired the .50 cal. as well (M95 that is). But as a balancing effect, the .50 would be a one shot kill if you hit. If you've ever fired a .50 BMG rifle in RL, you'd know this was realistic. :)

[machstem]

I find the game it fairly balanced, and I agree with the person who posted about not being stupid when arming the AA or trying to stop air fire. I'll come out of a map, having done badly, and still be top of the leader board, simply because I don't always go for the biggest front/fight. If a place is being bombarded, or continuously attacked, and you're dying, go somewhere else. Blitzkrieg my friends!!! :)

Don't expect a portable AA kit with the game, the weapons are set to stay. Don't take the locking off, it makes it much funner to ward off evil.:mad:

Flare reloads definitely need to be reduced, and this is coming from the guy that needs more flares to survive.

Once again, make the maps more like infantry maps, and you are ruining the Battlefield franchise which is insistent on large area maps, with a multitude of vehicles to choose from. A battlefield will hardly ever give you the constraints of close quarter coverage, but it is a good idea to add a couple into the mix, it gives the game new dimension when playing.

If you want to be restricted to the ground and infantry for combat, then BF shouldn't be your game. It might be your preference in gaming, but it ruins it for those that enjoy "the larger, the better" maps...

And just to please all that do like close combat, there's an expansion just around the corner...Can't wait!

PEACE

[machstem]

Realism = you not coming back through a respawn period

Realism = one chest bullet wound, you're crawling on the ground; one shoulder/arm wound, you ain't holding a rifle to shoot

Realism = not a videogame


I actually like the fuzzy effect. IMO it would also be cool if that happened when you fired the .50 cal. as well (M95 that is). But as a balancing effect, the .50 would be a one shot kill if you hit. If you've ever fired a .50 BMG rifle in RL, you'd know this was realistic. :)

[machstem]

Call of duty: United Offensive

That's the game you should be playing, I love it for infantry gaming. May not have the graphics from BF2, but the gameplay is what you are describing.

To me, Battlefield series is:

Helicopters, jets, tanks, jeeps, boats, AA guns, APC vehicles, anything that drives or flies, essentially!!!


Um. No.

Infantry. Straight forward infantry. Two tanks, one LAV, and a buncha cars. You can get to each flag on foot and fight infantry. Who cares about air craft. Same reason I like Sharqi. Get to every flag on foot. Fight on foot. Run into armor now and then but oh well.

[machstem]

Amen.. ;)


"Why everyone likes Karkand:"

Because they're all CS nubs, duh.

People who can't deal with all aspects of the game really shouldn't playing the game. Watch, I guarantee these same people will get EA/DICE to make every new map infantry only completely destroying what Battlefield is all about - Watch.

[Real_2St0n3d]

Machstem, why would people who like infantry maps 'ruin' anything, especially anybody's gaming fun?

The whole point to infantry maps is that people who enjoy infantry versus infantry have a way to enjoy themselves, while the people who enjoy flying have their own set of maps like Kubra Dam or Operation Clean Sweep.

it's not as if infantry maps are something new, Berlin and stalingrad where some of the most popular and most played maps, and I haven't met a helo pilot who said it ruined his fun.. there's something called 'disconnect' if you don't want to play mano a mano but prefer choppers and planes,no? :)

live and let live m8.. except on the battlefield :D

[POWER]

Call of duty: United Offensive

That's the game you should be playing, I love it for infantry gaming. May not have the graphics from BF2, but the gameplay is what you are describing.

To me, Battlefield series is:

Helicopters, jets, tanks, jeeps, boats, AA guns, APC vehicles, anything that drives or flies, essentially!!!

I can't stand WW2 games. I like modern to futuristic stuff.

On another note, in regard to your post about games and realism: realism at the expense of gameplay = bad. realism that promotes cool gameplay = good. Fuzzy effect = good.

[DeathFromAbove]

I hate COD multiplayer but single player kicks ass.

[A$$a$$ination]

Great points being made here

[machstem]

Well, I like WW2 and modern combat, sometimes I feel like a bolt action, sometimes I feel like a semi-atuo, but in respect to both games, they are both diff. and great.

I agree with you on your statement. I too enjoy some realism, like the "bleeding" mod in COD. I wish it could be a standard in most games where shooting your enemy is key. OK, fine, more than 1 shot to knock a guy down, but I like if I have the surprise on the enemy, he can't just turn around, shoot me, and kill me almost instantly, and he survives. I shoot, you turn around and luckily kill me, and then die.

I like some realism, "effects" being the best way of promoting it.

Gameplay is definitely most important, a.k.a having alot of vehicles to choose from. Like Soldner...god I wish that game wouldn't have sucked. Over 90 weapons, 60 vehicles (or something like that)..great game, ****ty multiplayer.

PEACE


I can't stand WW2 games. I like modern to futuristic stuff.

On another note, in regard to your post about games and realism: realism at the expense of gameplay = bad. realism that promotes cool gameplay = good. Fuzzy effect = good.

[machstem]

I'm not arguing with the people that enjoy infantry maps, I'd be a hypocrit to act so. What I'm saying, is that as much as I enjoy infantry maps, I REALLY enjoy maps with alot of vehicles, because before BF series, there wasn't really much of that. Even if it was 50/50 infantry/air-land vehicles, I'd be happy. I just hope it never becomes "moe infantry than vehicle"...which I doubt it will ever become, but I'm just putting my opinion out there.

My comments were more of a figurative sense, meaning, I hope it never becomes "mostly" infantry, because there are already too many games of that type out there.

PEACE


Machstem, why would people who like infantry maps 'ruin' anything, especially anybody's gaming fun?

The whole point to infantry maps is that people who enjoy infantry versus infantry have a way to enjoy themselves, while the people who enjoy flying have their own set of maps like Kubra Dam or Operation Clean Sweep.

it's not as if infantry maps are something new, Berlin and stalingrad where some of the most popular and most played maps, and I haven't met a helo pilot who said it ruined his fun.. there's something called 'disconnect' if you don't want to play mano a mano but prefer choppers and planes,no? :)

live and let live m8.. except on the battlefield :D

[A$$a$$ination]

fuzzy effect promotes some realism. Realism is good but you need to find a happy medium, the more realism at some point = less fun. I think BF2 finds a pretty damn good balance between the two IMO

[A$$a$$ination]

I'm not arguing with the people that enjoy infantry maps, I'd be a hypocrit to act so. What I'm saying, is that as much as I enjoy infantry maps, I REALLY enjoy maps with alot of vehicles, because before BF series, there wasn't really much of that. Even if it was 50/50 infantry/air-land vehicles, I'd be happy. I just hope it never becomes "moe infantry than vehicle"...which I doubt it will ever become, but I'm just putting my opinion out there.

My comments were more of a figurative sense, meaning, I hope it never becomes "mostly" infantry, because there are already too many games of that type out there.

PEACE
I agree with everything you are saying.

[machstem]

Yep. Add some bleeding to the equation, and I have my winner. I'm very happy with mostly everything, except for the technical glitches of the game (crash to desktop, random server drops, etc..but that's another discussion)

I used to be very big on realism, but instead found modders that were "too" into realism, leading to alot of boring and annoying gameplay (gun drops when hit in arm/hand..but you can pick it back up)

All in all, BF2 is damn nice to look at, great times playing it, highly addictive, and even frustrating at times...hehehe


fuzzy effect promotes some realism. Realism is good but you need to find a happy medium, the more realism at some point = less fun. I think BF2 finds a pretty damn good balance between the two IMO

[POWER]

I don't like hyper-realism (realism at the cost of gameplay) any more than the next guy. IMO if someone made a mod that had America's Army's style of 'feel' with the movement/shooting accuracy/lethality of weapons with all the rest of the stuff standard BF2, that would be about perfect IMO.

AA has leaning, some good gun handling (Combat Effectiveness Meter allows suppression fire to be effective) and a nice level of weapon lethality. It even has a bleeding/bandage model. With a few tweaks I think it could be a great mod for BF2.

Point being, you guys are wholly missing my original point. I don't want less diversity, I want balance. Right now there is nothing to be done against jets. Fix it.

[JDUB]

IMO -

I came from BFV and PoE for BFV. Jets were much easier to take out with the pick-up AA kits, and in BF2, it's a miracle if you can get one hit on a jet! Every good bomber/fighter pilot will automatically destroy the immobile AA site, making it impossible to defend. I like infantry battles. It's simply not fair to the infantry to make the aircraft impervious to most attacks.

I've played BF42/DC, BFV/PoE, and now BF2. I wasn't too impressed with vanilla BFV either, but the PoE team brought me back.

In other words ... wait until the mod teams start releasing! I'm always amazed at how the top mods transform the game into something very fun and very addicting. :)

[ttopi]

Stingers, IGLA's and Linebacker/Tunguska's do hit you. Every day I have been shot down by AA. It's not balancing if every AA should automaticly hit air vehicles. You must use them correctly, it's not like point and click, you need to be smart to determine the right time to fire them. Nothing is supposed to be easy. If there isn't any challenge, what's the point then? Flying is not easy, I can tell you that. It needs a lot of practise. Practise to use AA and you can get jets down. Patience and practise, it always pays off.

I think the best thing about this game is that it gives you the freedom of the choice to do what you can. I'm not a good grunt, but I'm a formidable pilot. That's my thing in this game.

[JDUB]

Currently you CAN take plane down with stingersite or AA-vehicle. It's not easy and 100% reliable but it is not supposed to be.

That's why I liked PoE/DC gameplay more...

Aircraft are rightly dominating in the real world but in-game I think it's better to even things out a bit ... even a good pilot in PoE wouldn't last too long if he had an SA-7 stalking him.

But I digress. I realize that many people play this game for the aircraft, others for ground vehicles, and still others for pure infantry.

It's hard to find the proper balance between each style of play.

[stormwolf]

IMO -

I came from BFV and PoE for BFV. Jets were much easier to take out with the pick-up AA kits, and in BF2, it's a miracle if you can get one hit on a jet! Every good bomber/fighter pilot will automatically destroy the immobile AA site, making it impossible to defend. I like infantry battles. It's simply not fair to the infantry to make the aircraft impervious to most attacks.

You will be suprised I guess, but it would be a miracle if you'de hit me in the phantom by the AA kit in BFV.
I suppose I am one of those jet pilots who makes you want to reduce the jets ability. Fact is i it's not the jet, it's the pilot. Same as I built the skills to fly almost untouched in BFV, I did the same in BF2.
After quite a few hours of BF2 game play, I have only ecountered no more then 3 pilots that owned our infentry, while I was infentry myself. Excuse me, but 3 rounds out of a few houndreds does not sound like a game balance problem to me. Most are supposed to be average, some good, some bad, and few excell or suck big time. This is excatlly what I feel when I either infentry around or take the jet.

And I like karakand simply because it's a very well done infentry map and I like infentry gameplay too. Not because not having jets. (I like it for what it is, not for what it is not).

[KBH33]

I hates jets firstly cos they always just ram in and kamikazi sometimes and also cos I cant drive well

[ttopi]

I hates jets firstly cos they always just ram in and kamikazi sometimes and also cos I cant drive well

There are players that solely take a plane and ram others... That's lame.

Well, you know accidents do happen and it's quite easy to crash into a chopper while shooting it. Not always rams are intentional. I even apologize if I ram someone.

[imported_Fig]

I didn't read through this whole topic, but this guy is right, Karkand is amazingly popular because there are no aircraft, and the map is very well designed. I personally would like to see a version of that map with only humvees and gazs, but I think people like that map because it is actually really fun to play infantry on that map, vehicles take a side seat, as AT guys can be anywhere, and hide everywhere.

Aircraft can kill everything, and nothing except a better pilot can kill them with the degree of easy ness they bomb us. sure you can try the nerfed missles, get a hit every 1 out of 100 times, (and you die once every 50 times, as they bomb you), or try mobile AA, which is kind of a misnomer as you have to stop to shoot it well, and all the levels with mobile AA have fairly difficult terrain to manuever, so if you just keep moving, you'll fall off a cliff, drive into an ocean, whatever.

Karkand is popular because its the only map that feels like Stalingrad or Berlin. Pure, high adrenalline, close quarters, urban combat, without being raped by a jet or heli every 30 seconds.

[JDUB]

Karkand is popular because its the only map that feels like Stalingrad or Berlin. Pure, high adrenalline, close quarters, urban combat, without being raped by a jet or heli every 30 seconds.

I'd love to see a few more Stalingrad-ish maps!

[stormwolf]

I hates jets firstly cos they always just ram in and kamikazi sometimes and also cos I cant drive well

I never kamikazi on purpose - never ever. You do not know how angry I get when I die in the jet - I'm a total fanatic for my KDR. I will not spare any death, not even for 100 kills. If I kamikazi - it was an accident.
Take note that a lot of times the choppers are the ones responsible.
Try getting rammed from the buttom by a friendly chopper who was on the ground and thought it would be cool to lift off excatlly when I'm above him, then both friendlies punishing you for TK :mad: Totl noobs.

And if you can fly well - try practicing. And do it on Local server. This is what I did on BFV.

[CheetoDust]

I hate it when people use shortcuts like IMHO and CQC...for god's sake, take the time to type out 3 words..

[DrunkenAviator]

I love the jets.. I fly all the time... I also see that the AA does need a little help... It'll be better for me that way.. Keep the tards out of the air.. : ) Seriously though, they need to make the super-quick unguided SAMs from DC a secondary fire option on stationary AA sites... (The mobile AA is fine, since you can use the guns if you have any aiming skill)... But the sites DO need help...

[big_sammy_b]

people like karkand because it allows them too point whore, thats it.

[ShadowWarrior18D]

I like the Karkand map because usually the battles are intense and you're always on your toes plus jets **** me off once in a while. Not to mention you don't have to spend 5 minutes walking to get some where.

[freefall]

I agree. The stingers are quite useless. It´s nearly impossible to shoot down a plane with them and even helicopters are difficult.
Most stingers don´t hit because of flares and the time you have reloaded the plane is long gone or already resupplied and repaired.
Stingers should make more damage and hit better.
And I think it would be a very good idea to change one main thing for planes and helicopters; they must land and stand to resupply and be repaired on a airfield!!!!!! Not just by flying over it. That´s not only unrealistic but it also gives ground vehicles and infantry the chance to destroy a plane or helicopter! :yay:

[j4k3]

mashtuur can be ruined by bh whores.
sharqi is pretty balanced (but HATE good mec attack chopper pilots).
karkand is the BEST because there are no chopper/planes.

[stormwolf]

I agree. The stingers are quite useless. It´s nearly impossible to shoot down a plane with them and even helicopters are difficult.
Most stingers don´t hit because of flares and the time you have reloaded the plane is long gone or already resupplied and repaired.
Stingers should make more damage and hit better.
And I think it would be a very good idea to change one main thing for planes and helicopters; they must land and stand to resupply and be repaired on a airfield!!!!!! Not just by flying over it. That´s not only unrealistic but it also gives ground vehicles and infantry the chance to destroy a plane or helicopter! :yay:

But of course reloading a tank with a supply kit is very realistic. They say some tanks can be reloaded just by looking at them.
The reason jets get repaired and resupplied by flying over is not to make it so much difficult comparing to the rest of the vehicals which only need a soldeir with a kit by them. If it will be removed, jets will have no purpose. BF without jets is not BF. The basic idea of the BF series is you can battle with everything on the battlefield.

Try practicing your skills instead of trying to make skillful players life's harder.

[Real_2St0n3d]

I love the jets.. I fly all the time... I also see that the AA does need a little help... It'll be better for me that way.. Keep the tards out of the air.. : ) Seriously though, they need to make the super-quick unguided SAMs from DC a secondary fire option on stationary AA sites... (The mobile AA is fine, since you can use the guns if you have any aiming skill)... But the sites DO need help...

The best help they can get is to get repositioned :)

those that are low enough to benefit from 360° field of view usually stand right next to a series of trees, walls of sandbags, etc, etc.. those that are too high have allmost 360° view are either in locations no plane ever crosses anyway or are set up so enemy planes can creep in underneath your field of fire.

Adding an MG would make the stinger a lot more popular and usefull indeed! I can only hope :cool:

[SpeedyGonzales]

Karkand is popular because there isnt all the jet and chopper whoring..

with the exception of that gay ass magical map with all your enemies location
on it 24/7.... Karkand is a straight forward infantry map, the way they all
should be..

I am boring with this game, and all of its silliness quickly.. chopper capping,
and the constant UAV/SCANs are just about the stupidest things I ever seen.

[jdrou]

I like vehicles in general. Vehicles were a major reason I started playing BF42. I don't mind helos (except the overpowered BH) but I would be perfectly happy if there were no jets in the game at all.

32+ player Karkand actually doesn't have that rigid of a frontline. There's almost always a US squad or lone-wolf sneaking around the flanks or flying down the streets in a humvee to one of the back flags. So I don't think transport helos would be too bad (if they couldn't capture flags while in the air). It would be a good mod to have a version with no vehicles but I'd still play the original too.

[CheetoDust]

Karkand would be greatly improved in my opinion if the tanks were eliminated or the spawn time between them seriously increased. APCs too...they can be just as deadly on an infantry map.

An urban map with nothing but Humvees on it would be heaven for me...

[}GC{blastokid]

blackhawks would still kick ass ;)

[SmilingRaccoon]

Well the thing is if you wanna play with vechicals there should be nouf for everyone or at least a short way to the bases. If there was a crapload more vechicals and everyone had one it would be fair. Tanks in karkand are just stupid to, everyone just whores them.

[Ghost-Three-Four]

I used to hate how frequent Karkand was on and I now see why...it's become my favorite now ever since I had my best scoring games on there. No air at all is an advantage.

Who says you can't shoot down nothing with the MANPADS in game? Used right, just wait for the tone, wait for the flares and get off two quick ones. The m6 and the Tunguska are great, I think the Tunguska is FEARSOME! :D

[JeFFLe323]

up close combat

[ConscriptVirus]

i think they took out the aircraft cuz of the dust lowering visiblity by a ton

[ConscriptVirus]

plus it wouldnt be "flying" weather so the usmc would cancel all flights and stuff

[Riggz]

Karkand is popular because it has the most action. You don't have to walk 400m to the next flag or worry about f15s bombing you. But that artillery will murda u a bunch of times.

[Cicchetti]

Karkand is the best infantry map and thats why i like it the tanks are down quick and it seems people decide to fight on foot more and its more fun i dont know what the rest of you think but i think infantry is the best part of the game and i cant wait for special forces

[Pr0d1gy]

I'm hoping the Special Forces expansion will truly focus more on the infantry side as it promises to. PC Gamer mag did a great write-up on the new shooters coming out in the next 12 months & that was one of the articles that really intrigued me.

[scott123]

Karkand would be greatly improved in my opinion if the tanks were eliminated or the spawn time between them seriously increased. APCs too...they can be just as deadly on an infantry map.

An urban map with nothing but Humvees on it would be heaven for me...

Thats exactly the idea. Some maps favor the foot soldier, some aircraft, and some APC/Tanks. Its a good thing because I'm an APC hore on that map.

[{21cw}Bettox]

To be honest Karkand not having any aircraft is the reason I rarely play it. I love flying. Both the helos and the jets.

The thing that set BF1942 and DC apart from games like COD is the ability to use all manner of vehicles including aircraft. I really miss the maps with ships on as well. It brought a new dimension to the game to be able to move the destroyer around to give artillery cover.

I don't mind there being maps with no aircraft but it would be nice to have some really big maps like No Fly Zone and El Alamein which were really good for dogfighting. Most of the BF2 maps are just too small for a good dogfight. It only takes a few seconds to fly from one side of the map to the other and you're constantly going out of bounds.

AA is effective if you know how to use it. The static AA is without doubt really badly positioned in almost all cases. Blocked by buildings, ground features and those bloody flare pylons, but the Linebacker and especially the Tunguska are lethal in the right hands.

[ripcurl682]

I think you'll find it's not becuase of lack of Aircraft, but becuase the levels are much more urban and close-contained.

[DLWebmaestro96]

I would just like to say that {21cw}Bettox's avatar is a welcomed new addition to TotalBF2.com! :cool: