The Aviators Guide

[Xennore]

Jet guide on bf2s wiki.

http://wiki.bf2s.com/tactical-guides/aviator-tactics

Huge guide, many thanks for [CANADA]_Zenmaster for taking the
time to create something so big and time consuming.


Here is a movie done by me Enjoy!
http://www.coffslan.net/LaZaRuS/xennore.rar
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCpDE_-Z3jk

[Chris_Redfield]

Jet guide on bf2s wiki.

http://wiki.bf2s.com/tactical-guides/aviator-tactics

Huge guide, many thanks for [CANADA]_Zenmaster for taking the
time to create something so big and time consuming.


Here is a movie done by me Enjoy!
http://www.coffslan.net/LaZaRuS/xennore.rar

Xennore, your movie inspired me to work on the high-altitude precision drop technique, its a nice moves you make there.

One question, how did you calculate the turn radius of the jets?

[HAWK503]

Far out, that would have taken ages to compile.

[pYura]

Jet guide on bf2s wiki.

http://wiki.bf2s.com/tactical-guides/aviator-tactics

Huge guide, many thanks for [CANADA]_Zenmaster for taking the
time to create something so big and time consuming.


Here is a movie done by me Enjoy!
http://www.coffslan.net/LaZaRuS/xennore.rar

WOW:|:

:cool:

Aviator 254:05:11 18,626 1,224 16.5302 1607

[Chris_Redfield]

Far out, that would have taken ages to compile.

I seriously advise you to check the video, its pretty damn good.

[Xennore]

Xennore, your movie inspired me to work on the high-altitude precision drop technique, its a nice moves you make there.

One question, how did you calculate the turn radius of the jets?

Record jets initial height, then do a half loop towards the sky,
record jets maximum height at the end of the turn,
then find the differance, using bf2's altitude metre

[Chris_Redfield]

Record jets initial height, then do a half loop towards the sky,
record jets maximum height at the end of the turn,
then find the differance, using bf2's altitude metre
Son of a gun! I thought you used mathematical calculation of "average turn speed" "turn time", to get the "turn distance" and through that "turn radius". :laugh:

[Turnip]

Why are you in a squad if you're flying in a jet?


"Squad Leader indicates new attack position"

[Chris_Redfield]

Why are you in a squad if you're flying in a jet?


"Squad Leader indicates new attack position"

I can partially answer that question, even though its not directed to me.

I sometimes lock myself up into a single man squad when Im in a jet. This servers 2 purposes.

One, commander can treat me as a mobile artillery.
Two, I really like the possibility to set "markers" for myself. I often fly using the minimap only so the lines are kinda like vectors for me.

[Flares]

Nice vid. The bombing technique is good, but all of those targets bar the tanks I'd strafe with cannons and the J10 pilots were nubs. ;)

Why are you in a squad if you're flying in a jet? See Redfield's post for one explanation. Another is VOIP; find a squad with people using VOIP. For instance they tell you there's a tank or large force of infantry/vehicles at X. You bomb the target, obstacle removed. They have a chance to regroup defences or move on. More fun and more useful than flying around willy nilly looking for targets.

[TheDragon]

I can partially answer that question, even though its not directed to me.

I sometimes lock myself up into a single man squad when Im in a jet. This servers 2 purposes.

One, commander can treat me as a mobile artillery.
Two, I really like the possibility to set "markers" for myself. I often fly using the minimap only so the lines are kinda like vectors for me.

^^ like he said
Our CO can give us vectors - we do this all the time
and even better - the co-pilot is the Squad Leader
even in Helo
so he can better direct the pilot
hmmm, . . .
never thought of doing a self vector - does that really help you if you already know where you are going? (not being saracstic - will try it myself)

[Chris_Redfield]

^^ like he said
Our CO can give us vectors - we do this all the time
and even better - the co-pilot is the Squad Leader
even in Helo
so he can better direct the pilot
hmmm, . . .
never thought of doing a self vector - does that really help you if you already know where you are going? (not being saracstic - will try it myself)

Well, I usually do a lot of split-S and turns to get to the proper altitude to boost for a bombing run. I navigate using the minimap, by keeping an eye on the jet icon and the line to the target, so when I maneuver to take altitude, I know which turn to take and how fast I can get on line.

Some people get a good sense of the map, but from my experience, in a middle of a fight at 500-800 feet altitude, with no visual landmarks, flying by the map is a good option.

Theres also another use is a set for dogfighting. Within all these loops and turns things can get out of hand and out of borders. Sometimes another extra turn costs the life, so the sooner you know how to turn, the better.

I also fly with a rotating map, not static map, so the direction Im heading is always "north" (upscreen).

Im uploading the bombing vidoe as we speak so you can have a look at the map. Although I didnt set any vectors there...

[imported_VISTREL]

Here is a movie done by me Enjoy!
http://www.coffslan.net/LaZaRuS/xennore.rar

The best pilot video Ive ever seen...even better than planewhore's (I still admire his skills though)...I bet that video will increase the number of TKs for aircraft. :D

[Chris_Redfield]

The best pilot video Ive ever seen...even better than planewhore's (I still admire his skills though)...I bet that video will increase the number of TKs for aircraft. :D

I duplicated the method of bombing via checking the HUD and bomb drop withes (hes got a slight delay in sound) sounds and its a very easy to do trick. Very effective aswell. AA cant get to you. I can say this vid is one of those videos that create inspiration to become better. Notice though, that PW bombs with a different method and different approach, in his video. Especially considering that his video was made pre-1.2 ;)

[TheDragon]

There's also another use is a set for dogfighting. Within all these loops and turns things can get out of hand and out of borders. Sometimes another extra turn costs the life, so the sooner you know how to turn, the better.

that is is a good idea !
I sometimes find myself out of bonds chasing someone
and even the BIG map view is of no help

I also fly with a rotating map, not static map, so the direction Im heading is always "north" (up screen).


hmmm . . .
perhaps that is why - if you learn keep the map fixed
and learn the layout of the maps- it might eventually get better for you
(just a suggestion), there are many times when a rotating map is best
but not in the game (eg doing low level attack runs, using a map to cover long distances)
again - just my opinion on the map rotation part

[Chris_Redfield]

Naw, I used to fly with a fixed map and Im not going back to that time. Rotating map is way faster, way more natural and easier to follow. You should try it for a round or two, its pretty damn asy to get adjusted to, and for pilots, its way better.

[Kiotee]

Xennore,
I have the JoytoKey program but really never used it. After reading your tips, I decided to go ahead and try it. I was able to get the Q binded to my POV, but I can`t get my left mouse button entered into the setup. How did you do that?

[TheDragon]

the Aviator guide is GREAT!
well written - well laid out - good advice
couple points
I too had the MS Sidewinder - till it broke last month
(lost rudder control)
forced to go to walmart and buy a $20 Saitek ST290 PRO
it is WAY better in every way
tighter. less deadzone , everything
and. personal note
your joystick button layout is odd (but that is a personal opinion - you can get used to anything)
(as a side note - part of my Career was as test pilot and design engineer in F20 Tigershark and for the F18 Hornet, which included design evaluation and writing the manual for the HOTAS and HUD for both Jets, and also was advisor on the cockpit layout for the F15 Strike Eagle)
ANYWAY - great post
have some questions about your data tables
there is so LITTLE difference between J10 and others in your charts
yet we ALL know the J10 SMOKES all others in turn rates etc
hmmm , . .
have to go investigate

again - great job !!!

[jakswan]

Well that's the best live action plane footage I've seen, by a long way, top notch F35 v J10 and A1 bombing.

[Komet.nl]

To the OP I thank you.. I just tryed out some manouvres you did on the video and bombing from high altitude and it worked..

Taken down 3 J-10'S and 1 F-18

I died once but that was because I couldn't shake a J-10 off my tail..

Score (http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/9384/f35bck4.png)

This all was from last round.. Really I thought the plane sucked but I love how it bombs and how it flys.. The only thing that buzzes me is that J-10 have super missiles you only have to click 2 times and the F35-B is killed well sometimes..

I used C to view if there even were missiles behind me before pressing the x buttong.. It all worked..

[Skwurl]

Jet guide on bf2s wiki.

http://wiki.bf2s.com/tactical-guides/aviator-tactics

Huge guide, many thanks for [CANADA]_Zenmaster for taking the
time to create something so big and time consuming.


Here is a movie done by me Enjoy!
http://www.coffslan.net/LaZaRuS/xennore.rar

I bow to your bombing skill.

[Feenix5712]

OMG WOW! I can't even fly and you've just inspired me to learn while waiting for the stupid patch to come out. I think I will go out to Wal-Mart and buy a joystick right now...

[ELI]

That has got to be the most elaborate and extensive guides I have seen yet! Very well done and thorough! Will make for some good reading at work until I can get home and remap my JS keys and install Joy to Key. Thanks Man! ;) :D

[lamah]

thanks so much op!

been waiting for something like this!

[MoB|GunnerDoop]

It's like the inspiration is contagious!

I went 57-0 on dalian because of this, all in an f35.

[EliteRazgriz666]

i cant open rars :(

[MoB|GunnerDoop]

http://www.rarlab.com/

download the trial, it lasts forever.

[pYura]

Jet guide on bf2s wiki.

http://wiki.bf2s.com/tactical-guides/aviator-tactics

Huge guide, many thanks for [CANADA]_Zenmaster for taking the
time to create something so big and time consuming.


Here is a movie done by me Enjoy!
http://www.coffslan.net/LaZaRuS/xennore.rar


I want you to make a noncut video. These moves are realy impressive but how do we know that these are not the "lucky shots".

[x_knight_x]

I want you to make a noncut video. These moves are realy impressive but how do we know that these are not the "lucky shots".

I agree

[Blades]

bah i dled this vid, and I just watched the beginning and found I ALREADY have it. damn. Its a GREAT vid though.

[SirCyRo]

Anyone else notice that they tried to kick him during this video? LOL.

Great bombing though. I wish I was a quarter that good.

[LifeCrysis]

Qoute guide

"If you are flying a J10, F18, or a MIG29, you have a 1/25 chance of dying (personal experience)! You’re flight speed and turn radius is vastly superior to the F35Bs, SU34s, and SU30s etc. You’re main enemy is crashing into the land - you are truly king of the skies in these planes so use this to your advantage as you know no F35/Bomber can catch you if you continue the use of afterburners and hard turns. The only decent match up is like a Mig vs. an F18, and less well matched J10 vs. F18. J10 beats all though :P

Not all jets take the same amount of damage from air-to-air, AA, and USS Essex AA. The J10 is notorious for taking low damage and evading missiles all together. The F35B is the other end of the scale and it is “a flying coffin” to quote on user. The F18 and Mig29 are pretty good, but the two seater bombers are pretty meaty targets and won’t last long against an experienced fighter pilot."


"Flying coffin"? HAHAHAHA! And yet there is nothing being done in 1.4 for all the maps where the "FLying Coffin" face the 1/25 J10. HA!

[Supermario]

wow very nice video i wish i can bomb that accurate very nice

[gunitsoldier127]

he is madly using the hud to bomb, if u guys watch the video carefully that u guys will notice exactly where the hud hit the target box when he switch to air to air mod, and that place right there gentleman, is the place on the hud that works for almost all angles. of course, hes bombs used on the moving targets, wow, amazing.

[Supermario]

wats a hud

[Chris_Redfield]

he is madly using the hud to bomb, if u guys watch the video carefully that u guys will notice exactly where the hud hit the target box when he switch to air to air mod, and that place right there gentleman, is the place on the hud that works for almost all angles. of course, hes bombs used on the moving targets, wow, amazing.

The tip of the line. But it doesnt always work. He also seems to make a jink before bombing to point the bombs towards the land.

[gunitsoldier127]

The tip of the line. But it doesnt always work. He also seems to make a jink before bombing to point the bombs towards the land.

the jink he makes only makes the place on the hud touch the box faster, i do it too, and i can bomb as acurate if i didnt do that jink and let that spot slid onto the target when im diving.

[Tren]

Hmm cool guide.

wats a hud

HUD = Heads Up Display. It's what shows your health, ammo, mini map, etc in game. (Basically everything that stays on your screen but isn't part of the map).

Oh and --Moved to Tips and Tricks--

[Chris_Redfield]

the jink he makes only makes the place on the hud touch the box faster, i do it too, and i can bomb as acurate if i didnt do that jink and let that spot slid onto the target when im diving.

When I perform that bombing move, I approach steady and pretty level, holding the target at the HUD. I use the jink to point the second bomb towards the target. They are separated by a short timeframe during which the second bomb will drop a little over the target, I use the jink to set the second bomb to follow first, like a train wagon. But thats just my method.

[Xennore]

I want you to make a noncut video. These moves are realy impressive but how do we know that these are not the "lucky shots".

Yeah ill do that, but not on my comp its to slow to run fraps and bf2
so ill do it whenever possible, might use my friends comp again.

[Eviscereightor]

AFAIK, that was shot over about 2 rounds of wake island on his mate's (lazarus) computer, well that's the story anyway.. Yeah xennore is a bit of a freak, i've been on the recieving end of his bombs and A2A before and he makes it all so simple and systematic..

Xennore: is that video link a 'finished' version of the video, or that one that has been up for a while? because i have the old one and don't wanna d/l it again, i have to watch my downloads atm :(

[SirCyRo]

Uh, what's a jink? Please explain.

BTW, based on those videos, I went and few the MIG on Karkand last night. Had 28 kills. Not great, but good enough for me. I'm a rookie pilot, maybe only 20 hours altogether in it. Had too many TK's though. -18 team score! LOL I'm learning

[Xennore]

AFAIK, that was shot over about 2 rounds of wake island on his mate's (lazarus) computer, well that's the story anyway.. Yeah xennore is a bit of a freak, i've been on the recieving end of his bombs and A2A before and he makes it all so simple and systematic..

Xennore: is that video link a 'finished' version of the video, or that one that has been up for a while? because i have the old one and don't wanna d/l it again, i have to watch my downloads atm :(

Yeah its not finished yet(most likely is the one you dled), havn't got around to do it yet.

[ELI]

Explain the "jink" please. Not sure what you're talking about.:confused:

[Bassu]

A little move done shortly before/after releasing bombs, depends on your position. Watch carefully, you'll notice it.

[Bungalow_Bill]

A cherry picked video of all your best shots of course will result in an impressive looking performance and that can be counterproductive when new and inexperience pilots attempt to adapt your bombing technique. I too would like to see an uncut version of your pilot technique. If your computer chokes when you FRAPs (as mine does) I'd recommend you find a nice Battlerecorder enabled server play a couple rounds and upload the tiny BR file for people to view.

Interesting bombing technique regardless but I somehow doubt it's even a fraction as accurate and reliable as my low altitude medium sloping single bomb method. Of course you've got to be lower to the ground to properly use my technique so you've got a small defensive trade off but generally speaking that's not much of an issue. In addition when you bomb so high up it's pretty much impossible to hit moving targets. Even a tank which is hardly moving in a sporadic fashion is virtually invincible if you use only that bombing method and cannons work better on stationary targets such as AA sites so really this method is a square peg trying to fit in a round hole.

However your A2A technique for downing J-10s is impeccable. It's virtually identcial to what I do with the utilization of the fly-by view mode to spot your maneuvering target and of course the all important firing of the A2A missiles prelock. Also you never start with air to air versus a J-10 which is very important because aside from cannons a close-range sneak attack with prelock missiles is the only way to down them reliably.

Good video and good guide but I'd encourage you to put a disclaimer on the bombing technique showcased in your video because in anything but ideal circumstances it will fail.

[Chris_Redfield]

PW, I can vouch for it. His bombing technique is impressively accurate and effective. I had no problem in replicating it using the HUD. Ive also posted up how to do it.

[ELI]

This is kinda off topic but how does his kills show the point count on screen and in yellow? Is that a little mod he added?

[Chris_Redfield]

[per} ELI']This is kinda off topic but how does his kills show the point count on screen and in yellow? Is that a little mod he added?

Altered "Localization Files", check search for "Localization Files", theres a topic made by Drunken Pirate and some other guy. Check them out and follow the instructions.

[ColdCircuitCash]

I have a few questions.....great video by the way, regardless of how many shots it was, very accurate.
1. To Chris Redfield, i would like your post on HOW to do this.
2. Is there any certain point at which he releases...and how.
3. do you have F12 bound to any other key?
4. Is changing the "killed" to "Owned" illegal (ie: will i get kicked if i do it by PB) And if not, how can i do it? : )

CCC

[Chris_Redfield]

I have a few questions.....great video by the way, regardless of how many shots it was, very accurate.
1. To Chris Redfield, i would like your post on HOW to do this.
2. Is there any certain point at which he releases...and how.
3. do you have F12 bound to any other key?
4. Is changing the "killed" to "Owned" illegal (ie: will i get kicked if i do it by PB) And if not, how can i do it? : )

CCC

1.-2. Depends on approach. I use 2 general approach methods.
*Target somewhere in the center at the HUD line. I drop the bombs where the USMC fighters vertical lines tip is. I drop my nose down to send the second bomb right after first with no spread. As you know, the second bomb drops with a slight delay.
*Target is somewhere in the bottom part of the screen. I drop when the target is between the vertical lines tip and central aiming reticle, drop nose down for second bomb. Depending on the altitude (if Im lower than 200 feet) I drop while holding the target just below the central aiming reticle.

But I usually use the first method. Its extremely fun once youve mastered it. Its like shooting loops from behind 3 pts line, fun fun fun.

Also, HOW I do this, is shown in the HUD use tutorial video. Which you can find here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5GLrGtrbnc

3. I have the F12 (I assume you mean the FREE CHASE CAM view) binded to F key. I use a joyctick, and I dont use the bottom keys on the JS. My hat is all used up so I use KB keys aswell. Im used to fly with WS(throttle) AD(rudder) anyway, so a few extra keys on KB isnt an issue. Besides, with Logitech Attack 3, I used F for CHASE REAR and X for COCCPIT views.

4. Those are changes in Localization files which are client side ONLY and deal with ONLY the messages shown to YOU on YOUR screen. You can download Ringmasters or SaladForks Custom Localization files, look up for them using the "Search" feature. And no, they are not illegal. I personally use RingMasters files and all my buddies whom I have shown my screencaps, also use RMs.

[Sike]

that is a serious vid it given me some kamakazi ideas

[*{82nd)*Commando]

How can I DL that video? Would like to practice this myself. But would like to have a copy instead of going to the tube to watch it.

Thanks!

[zipp0r]

Here is a movie done by me Enjoy!
http://www.coffslan.net/LaZaRuS/xennore.rar

its nice to see other pilots that can pinpoint drop the bomb from height.

good stuff!! :)


p.s. dont you do low flying attacking as well?

[Bungalow_Bill]

After watching the video Chris posted I'm convinced this method of bombing is inferior to my technique (which is nothing fancy and is pretty standard). You've got to ask yourself the following question: can this alternate bombing technique destroy a tank moving at full speed with a high rate of success with a single bomb? If the answer is no then it's case closed. Of course you can hit near a stationary tank with two close bombs and maybe destory it but with half the payload I can directly hit a full speed tank right on the turret nearly 100% of the time which gives me the capability to destroy two tanks on a single reload. Also I noticed that bombing in this manner does not allow you to soften the target up with cannons. When approaching a tank or APC to bomb I'll almost always hit them with a good 50+ cannon roads during my bombing approach and in the rare event the bomb doesn't hit them directly it'll still usually destroy them.

If it ain't broke.. don't fix it.

[zipp0r]

After watching the video Chris posted I'm convinced this method of bombing is inferior to my technique (which is nothing fancy and is pretty standard). You've got to ask yourself the following question: can this alternate bombing technique destroy a tank moving at full speed with a high rate of success with a single bomb? If the answer is no then it's case closed. Of course you can hit near a stationary tank with two close bombs and maybe destory it but with half the payload I can directly hit a full speed tank right on the turret nearly 100% of the time which gives me the capability to destroy two tanks on a single reload. Also I noticed that bombing in this manner does not allow you to soften the target up with cannons. When approaching a tank or APC to bomb I'll almost always hit them with a good 50+ cannon roads during my bombing approach and in the rare event the bomb doesn't hit them directly it'll still usually destroy them.

If it ain't broke.. don't fix it.

there are several ways to bomb and this is one of them. it is accurate... but depends if u know what your doing when going after moving targets.

[Chris_Redfield]

This is seriously stupid PlaneWhore.

For one, there are MULTIPLE types of bombing. I use Xennores method, "your" (the standard and VERY average method) method, horizontal drop and pure divebombing, all depending on whats going on. For example, if I attack a flag which is covered by multiple AAs, I gladly drop a bomb from 200 ft onto the nest of an AA.

After watching the video Chris posted I'm convinced this method of bombing is inferior to my technique

Do NOT judge Xennores video by what I made in my video. For one, I played with the lowest possible settings, and view distance was set to 80%, AND I didnt have any indication of the target on my HUD, which basically reduces at LEAST 200 feet from altitude, and 150-200 feet from approach corridor. My video doesnt even show how I play in pubs, and I do bomb stationary targets from 200-300 feet height with PINPOINT precision.

Xennores moves advantage is extreme, encouraged method for ALL JFS pilots. Because it allows people to drop bombs from safety.

(which is nothing fancy and is pretty standard).

Bull. The "standard" method is what YOU are using. Which is the simpliest and most basic method. You might not remember, but upon watching your video just recently, the one you made nearly a year ago, you bombed Con. Site using the same angle and HUD release as Xennore did.

You've got to ask yourself the following question: can this alternate bombing technique destroy a tank moving at full speed with a high rate of success with a single bomb?

Your method opens you for an attack. Xennores method leaves him out of reach of AA. Your attack is great for any and all types of targets (STILL; leaving you open for an attack), Xennores method is for precision-drop at stationary targets at safe altitude.

However, once mastered, theres proper lead, and proper hit in moving targets.

If the answer is no then it's case closed.

I think you closed the case yourself once you started pissing on a guy with great skills just because youre jealous of the publicity. :rolleyes:

Of course you can hit near a stationary tank with two close bombs and maybe destory it but with half the payload I can directly hit a full speed tank right on the turret nearly 100% of the time which gives me the capability to destroy two tanks on a single reload.

If Xennores method is applied correctly, the bombs drop after one and other with minimum spread. Which in simple terms means- 2 bombs drop at one spot. In order to do this, you just have to point the nose down on second release. Its that simple. I use it all the time, even in casual attacks.

Also I noticed that bombing in this manner does not allow you to soften the target up with cannons.

If a bomber does what hes supposed to be doing, cannon use is minimal. I for example dont soften my targets, yet I kill them nonetheless.

When approaching a tank or APC to bomb I'll almost always hit them with a good 50+ cannon roads during my bombing approach and in the rare event the bomb doesn't hit them directly it'll still usually destroy them.

Thats because YOU do that. I kill a tank or an APC with a precision 2 bomb drop without using cannons at all.

If it ain't broke.. don't fix it.

Variety. The best pilots is the pilot utilizing multiple variants, each suitable the best for certain scenario. The more you know, the more you think, the better you are.


I think its NEEDLESS to say that if Xennore has mastered THIS bombing method, which I rank as pure art, then low altitude bombing isnt a problem for him. At all. Pay attention that the guy drops bombs in single mode.

[Jdawg790]

It was a great Guide, rele helps, thanks a lot!!

[Bungalow_Bill]

For one, there are MULTIPLE types of bombing. I use Xennores method, "your" (the standard and VERY average method) method, horizontal drop and pure divebombing, all depending on whats going on. For example, if I attack a flag which is covered by multiple AAs, I gladly drop a bomb from 200 ft onto the nest of an AA.
See that's what I don't get. You can outrange S2A with cannons by a huge distance. The cannons are faster than bombs and more accurate and you end up saving your bombs for the targets that actually do require bombs (large groups of infantry and armor vehicles). Practicing multiple types of bombing just leaves you jack of all master of none. If you stick with a rigid form and technique and use it over and over again you'll end up developing a godlike accuracy with that technique. Normally I'd never recommend such a rigid style of gameplay but luckily with airplane bombing techniques you only need one.

My video doesnt even show how I play in pubs, and I do bomb stationary targets from 200-300 feet height with PINPOINT precision.
Again 200-300... hell even 500 feet away or more you can fire in to a stationary S2A site before the box has even appeared and destroy it with ease. I can't remember the last time I used a bomb on a S2A site.

Xennores moves advantage is extreme, encouraged method for ALL JFS pilots. Because it allows people to drop bombs from safety.
No such thing as safety for an F-35B. If you're going up against a J-10 you're guaranteed dead as I'll prove over and over again and if you let S2A down your F-35B you are an uber-noob. Dropping bombs from 300 feet does not change this fact. Cannons travel faster than bombs and are much more accurate and like it or not are the best way to roast S2A posts. From a single point on most maps I can pretty much waste every single S2A site long before the box appears. As long as it's not past the fog in BF2 it's dead meat.

Bull. The "standard" method is what YOU are using. Which is the simpliest and most basic method. You might not remember, but upon watching your video just recently, the one you made nearly a year ago, you bombed Con. Site using the same angle and HUD release as Xennore did.
You got me there Chris.. I'll do crazy stuff when precision isn't neccessary and the clock is ticking. If memory serves me I dropped a bomb on infantry on the flag and if I had the necessary angle for a regular (much more accurate) drop I would've taken it but fact is you don't have much time with a flag cap and plus the addition of that crane over CS you've got to use an odd angle every now and again.

Your method opens you for an attack. Xennores method leaves him out of reach of AA. Your attack is great for any and all types of targets (STILL; leaving you open for an attack), Xennores method is for precision-drop at stationary targets at safe altitude.
Again the only thing that is truely stationary enough for these high-altitude bombs to hit is S2A. Vehicles will almost always move around enough to make the time to release on the drop far too long. Of course I shouldn't have to mention again that S2A is not an armored target and can be outranged easily by cannons.

However, once mastered, theres proper lead, and proper hit in moving targets.
Haha ok Chris show me an unedited video of you bombing and hitting many undamaged moving tanks/APCs (even jeeps) from these altitudes and destroying them with a single bomb over the course of a full round and I'll admit defeat. The only way you'll hit tanks from those altitudes is if your name is Nostradomos. Because once you drop that bomb it's out of your control and thus if that tank decides to make a hard right or stop you're screwed. The longer the time that the bomb spends in the air the less efficient and less accurate it will be. Dropping low and hard with my modified form of "dive bombing" leaves less than half a second between the drop of the bomb and impact with the target.. AKA one dead tank guaranteed.

I think you closed the case yourself once you started pissing on a guy with great skills just because youre jealous of the publicity. :rolleyes:
I could care less about piloting ego now as I rarely pilot nowadays regardless. Believe it or not I want inexperienced pilots to do well and I don't think they can do well if they start wasting bombs by dropping them on weak S2A posts from 400 feet up. In addition attempting to vehicles from 400 feet up isn't going to produce favorable results. My method battle tested, is the most effective, just about as safe and produces much more accuracy and thus is a much more effective use of the bombs payload. When I'm on the ground I want my pilots to destroy those two tanks ASAP and I don't want to watch them waste a payload by doing a high altitude drop and doing nothing but scorching the ground.

If Xennores method is applied correctly, the bombs drop after one and other with minimum spread. Which in simple terms means- 2 bombs drop at one spot. In order to do this, you just have to point the nose down on second release. Its that simple. I use it all the time, even in casual attacks.
Did DICE recently create some ultra tank I'm not aware of? A single bomb plus a spattering of cannon kills every single vehicle in the game with room to spare. The advantage of not using both bombs on a tank is if you miss or fail to kill the target you get a second shot but for myself almost never missing a direct hit I have the second bomb free to drop on a flag or another armored vehicle should the opportunity arise. Less reload + more killing with the same payload = more effective pilot. Pretty simple concept really.

[Chris_Redfield]

See that's what I don't get. You can outrange S2A with cannons by a huge distance. The cannons are faster than bombs and more accurate and you end up saving your bombs for the targets that actually do require bombs (large groups of infantry and armor vehicles).

You seem to be stuck on the word "only" and "one". Xennores video was a presentation of high altitude bombing and "free chase cam" mode utilization in a dogfight. This wasnt a "how to play in a jet for one round" tutorial, such as the one you made. You practiced multiple methods in attacking vehicles and flags, great, but the aim of YOUR video was simply to show how an experienced pilot works in a game. Xennores video was a presentation of a few methods. To judge his whole play-style just by that video is a little ignorant.

As for cannons, great, they work! Even beyond visual range. And Im not saying cannons arent great. I use them all the time! But the variety of skills and use of weaponry is a guaranteed leap forward in efficiency and survival.

From my experience, when we get to safety, cannon use has more risks than high-altitude precision dropping. For one, if you use cannons, you may enter a zone covered my multiple AAs. You also line yourself up for a little longer against a pilot behind you. Now, I know youll say that you look behind you, I do too. But I personally have figured out some angles from which you cannot see me. Again, I dont think cannons are the worst method of attacking an AA nest. I wouldnt want to rank methods in their efficiency because a good pilot can make any method efficient. If we would want to rank, Id rank methods in simplicity. Yes, cannon use is more simple.

Practicing multiple types of bombing just leaves you jack of all master of none.

No. Maybe its your point of view because youve focused on one method.

If you stick with a rigid form and technique and use it over and over again you'll end up developing a godlike accuracy with that technique.

This is a common mistake I notice when I dogfight. Every pilot has a set of moves, and eventually (it takes me 1-3 chases) youll figure it out and create a countertactic. The most common mistake is one and only style on bombing approach. Yours is far more popular than you think. Theres also an angle of attack for which most pilots attempting this bombing method are open, and almost everyone uses their own ironed out escape method. Bottomline. The more traditional you are, the easier target you make. Ive been complimented for having an extraordinary flight "pattern" in escaping which really isnt a pattern, but is chaotic enough to drop most pilots off. This all comes down to variety. And variety is unpredictability, which in turn is survival.

And multiple mastered bombing methods does increase efficiency.

Normally I'd never recommend such a rigid style of gameplay but luckily with airplane bombing techniques you only need one.

Yes, you do "need" only one. Youre totally right here. But I "want" more than one. Not because Im a stupid kid at a candy-store, but because the more variety I have, the better I am.

Again 200-300... hell even 500 feet away or more you can fire in to a stationary S2A site before the box has even appeared and destroy it with ease. I can't remember the last time I used a bomb on a S2A site.

You can also get a sniper to keep an eye on STAs. You can also... yadda yadda yadda. I hope you get my point.

No such thing as safety for an F-35B. If you're going up against a J-10 you're guaranteed dead as I'll prove over and over again and if you let S2A down your F-35B you are an uber-noob. Dropping bombs from 300 feet does not change this fact. Cannons travel faster than bombs and are much more accurate and like it or not are the best way to roast S2A posts. From a single point on most maps I can pretty much waste every single S2A site long before the box appears. As long as it's not past the fog in BF2 it's dead meat.

Youre right, "relative safety" would be a better word. Its better for the F35B to stick UP, rather than DOWN. Whatever one can do, he should do to increase the chances of survival.

As for bolded comment. I have a 80-90% hit capability on stationary targets when I do want to drop bombs from safe altitude. I align my flight pattern for far LESS time than I do for a cannon run. I dont even enter AA range. Truly an "attack from out of nowhere". This is far more sattisfying and safe, than a cannon run.

You got me there Chris.. I'll do crazy stuff when precision isn't neccessary and the clock is ticking. If memory serves me I dropped a bomb on infantry on the flag and if I had the necessary angle for a regular (much more accurate) drop I would've taken it but fact is you don't have much time with a flag cap and plus the addition of that crane over CS you've got to use an odd angle every now and again.

Yup, which is my point exactly. While a traditional bombing method is still my nr #1 choice (cannon run and release at 20-30 degrees, in single drop mode), sometimes an opportunity arises in the least expected timeframe, and to save time and "tickets" or yourself, a drop from an odd angle or with an odd method is great, if you have NO trouble pulling it off. Needless to say Ive taken down AAs, tanks and APCs in a middle of a dogfight, with just a fraction of a secod of aligning. The more versatile you are, the better it is for you.

Haha ok Chris show me an unedited video of you bombing and hitting many undamaged moving tanks/APCs (even jeeps) from these altitudes and destroying them with a single bomb over the course of a full round and I'll admit defeat.

Whats the bid? :D

This is not about "one single only true" method as you so desperately want to make it out to be. In this argument in particular. This is about multiple methods in taking out any vehicle/target at any time.

As for me making a video. The bombing video I made, youve seen it right? I had to make it in a game with NO player (not even AI), with minimum settings and a 80% view distance, and I averaged 18 FPS.

The only way you'll hit tanks from those altitudes is if your name is Nostradomos. Because once you drop that bomb it's out of your control and thus if that tank decides to make a hard right or stop you're screwed.

Theres more to an attack than dropping a bomb. Unless I know I will hit a vehicle, I will not waste my bombs. This goes under "situational awareness". When a tank is attacking a flag, they are mostly stationary. Perfect target. no matter what altitude, just aslong as the bombs hit. If Im in F35B, Im almost always above 200-300 feet, why not take a drop from THAT altitude just to save time, rather than diving down and be painted with AA? Spotted for J10s? And whatever else?

The longer the time that the bomb spends in the air the less efficient and less accurate it will be.

No. Luckily DICE didnt create windage nor do bombs drift because they rotate. If you have a correct aprpoach, and you drop at correct moment (HUD target area), you got a bullzeye hit. Theres no argument there. Thats of course from the pilots part. If a target moves, tough luck. But the bombs themselves do not devate, and they fall in a 100% predictable manner, which is why these (to you) akward methods work just as well as traditional and simple methods.

Dropping low and hard with my modified form of "dive bombing" leaves less than half a second between the drop of the bomb and impact with the target.. AKA one dead tank guaranteed.

Let me make it clear to you. You do not have a "Modified" divebombing method. Every pilot who has skill enough to attack with at least some efficieny uses the same method. The difference is that they mostly do not use cannons. But the drop is at the same angle, same timing and certainly... same HUD positioning.

I could care less about piloting ego now as I rarely pilot nowadays regardless. Believe it or not I want inexperienced pilots to do well and I don't think they can do well if they start wasting bombs by dropping them on weak S2A posts from 400 feet up. In addition attempting to vehicles from 400 feet up isn't going to produce favorable results. My method battle tested, is the most effective, just about as safe and produces much more accuracy and thus is a much more effective use of the bombs payload. When I'm on the ground I want my pilots to destroy those two tanks ASAP and I don't want to watch them waste a payload by doing a high altitude drop and doing nothing but scorching the ground.

If you want new pilots to do well, then just leave it. This is about your pilot ego, you just dont see it. A good pilot knows more than one way of attacking their opponent. A newbie pilot, in order to be efficient, sooner or later discovers the most used bombing method, which is a semi-dive, with release on Nr2 position on my pic. Its that simple. This argument isnt about utilizing one and the same attack in every situation, even though you want it to be. This has become into an argument where the main theme is your intolerance towards bombing methods that you do not practice. So please... stop.

Did DICE recently create some ultra tank I'm not aware of? A single bomb plus a spattering of cannon kills every single vehicle in the game with room to spare. The advantage of not using both bombs on a tank is if you miss or fail to kill the target you get a second shot but for myself almost never missing a direct hit I have the second bomb free to drop on a flag or another armored vehicle should the opportunity arise. Less reload + more killing with the same payload = more effective pilot. Pretty simple concept really.

Actually, the faster you kill your targets = the better pilots you are. Which is the the ONLY ONE, the truest, the best and most important, the only viable concept*.





*see?

[Bungalow_Bill]

As for cannons, great, they work! Even beyond visual range. And Im not saying cannons arent great. I use them all the time! But the variety of skills and use of weaponry is a guaranteed leap forward in efficiency and survival.
I'm sorry but that's just not how aviation in this game works. Bombs work best for tanks, not anti-air missiles. It's just a fact. Cannons work best on soft stationary targets. It's just an undeniable fact.

From my experience, when we get to safety, cannon use has more risks than high-altitude precision dropping. For one, if you use cannons, you may enter a zone covered my multiple AAs.
How does that change anything? Cannons can be fired further than bombs can ever be dropped. You can burn down a S2A post before you are even visible to them.

No. Maybe its your point of view because youve focused on one method.
I've tested many methods and settled on the one that beats them all in accuracy and efficiency and then focused on it.

The most common mistake is one and only style on bombing approach.
You can't tell me it's a mistake when I've got one of the best KDR in the game, the best pilot SPM in the game among other statistics. My methods have been proven through various means. Of course you couldn't verify this but you'll just have to take my word that I pretty much never miss a direct hit with my bomb no matter how fast or oddly a vehicle is moving. You can't do that when you're bombing from 400 feet it's just impossible.

And multiple mastered bombing methods does increase efficiency.
When one method is far more efficient than all other methods yet you still are stubborn enough to use other less reliable techniques (for a wow factor no less) then yes it does decrease your efficiency.

You can also get a sniper to keep an eye on STAs. You can also... yadda yadda yadda. I hope you get my point.
No I hope you get my point. If you're dropping bombs on S2A... you're wasting bombs.

Youre right, "relative safety" would be a better word. Its better for the F35B to stick UP, rather than DOWN. Whatever one can do, he should do to increase the chances of survival.
I can't remember the last time S2A shot me down in any plane. It's much more reliable simply to quickly destroy all S2A sites in your general location even if they are unmanned. It takes less than a second worth of cannon rounds and completely eliminates any threat that may come from that area for a good long while. That way you can cruise in comfort and frag ground targets without worrying about becoming a target yourself.

As for bolded comment. I have a 80-90% hit capability on stationary targets when I do want to drop bombs from safe altitude. I align my flight pattern for far LESS time than I do for a cannon run. I dont even enter AA range. Truly an "attack from out of nowhere". This is far more sattisfying and safe, than a cannon run.
I think you're underestimating the cannons Chris. You point (at any range) you fire and they die. It doesn't get any more simple, accurate or efficient than that. And it certainly doesn't take more time then lining up and dropping a bomb(s) that would much better be spent on a tank or APC.


Yup, which is my point exactly. While a traditional bombing method is still my nr #1 choice (cannon run and release at 20-30 degrees, in single drop mode),
Don't contradict yourself...

I for example dont soften my targets, yet I kill them nonetheless.
But I'm glad that you've admitted that you do in fact use the cannon - single bomb method to instantly destroy any vehicle in the game with near 100% success rate. You'd be crazy not to afterall.

sometimes an opportunity arises in the least expected timeframe, and to save time and "tickets" or yourself, a drop from an odd angle or with an odd method is great, if you have NO trouble pulling it off. Needless to say Ive taken down AAs, tanks and APCs in a middle of a dogfight, with just a fraction of a secod of aligning. The more versatile you are, the better it is for you.
Point taken but it's still a rare opportunity and really if you've got to bomb at odd angles then you're piloting is at fault and nothing else. With perfect piloting you'll always have enough height speed and time to turn and do a cannon -> single dive drop.

As for me making a video. The bombing video I made, youve seen it right? I had to make it in a game with NO player (not even AI), with minimum settings and a 80% view distance, and I averaged 18 FPS.
Find a server with Battlerecorder then. FRAPs hurt no doubt and I've got an average computer it makes it difficult for me too. Consider it an "extra" challenge.

Theres more to an attack than dropping a bomb. Unless I know I will hit a vehicle, I will not waste my bombs. This goes under "situational awareness". When a tank is attacking a flag, they are mostly stationary. Perfect target. no matter what altitude, just aslong as the bombs hit. If Im in F35B, Im almost always above 200-300 feet, why not take a drop from THAT altitude just to save time, rather than diving down and be painted with AA? Spotted for J10s? And whatever else?
Even in your video when you drop both bombs often times I noticed the stationary tank you were aiming at failed to be destroyed. Fact is in a real game even tanks sitting at flags are rarely stationary for long (most good tank driving never stop moving even when capping a flag). The fact that the tank only has to shift a few feet in any direction for the bomb to become worthless makes it even less useful. I'd much rather risk getting "painted up" once in a blue moon to greatly increase my bombing accuracy and efficiency but that's just me. J-10 is going to spot you either way as metallica will gladly attest to and your best bet is to hope for a lucky kill on the J-10 and camp the rest of the round.. not hiding in the clouds.

No. Luckily DICE didnt create windage nor do bombs drift because they rotate. If you have a correct aprpoach, and you drop at correct moment (HUD target area), you got a bullzeye hit. Theres no argument there. Thats of course from the pilots part. If a target moves, tough luck. But the bombs themselves do not devate, and they fall in a 100% predictable manner, which is why these (to you) akward methods work just as well as traditional and simple methods.
You misunderstand me. You drop a bomb at a target. Now you've either aimed at a stationary target or compensated for the targets current trajectory. Now during that 3 or 4 seconds it takes the bomb to impact the spot you've aiming all it takes is for the target to slow down/move/change direction/speed up ect. thus the longer your bomb is falling the longer your target has to change his location or trajectroy.

Actually, the faster you kill your targets = the better pilots you are. Which is the the ONLY ONE, the truest, the best and most important, the only viable concept*.
Uh isn't that what I just said? Again I've got the highest pilot SPM in the game thus I kill targets faster than anyone. Killing targets fast is a result of making the most out of your payload, spending as little time reloading as possible, finding good targets and aiming accurately. This bombing method discourages those good "kill efficiency" habits.

[Chris_Redfield]

I'm sorry but that's just not how aviation in this game works. Bombs work best for tanks, not anti-air missiles. It's just a fact. Cannons work best on soft stationary targets. It's just an undeniable fact.

I dont really think DICE intended the cannons to be primary weapon. Or else they wouldnt have added bombs that would destroy a tank in one double drop, or an APC in one single drop.


How does that change anything? Cannons can be fired further than bombs can ever be dropped. You can burn down a S2A post before you are even visible to them.

Yes, while putting yourself at risk from crossfire from another STA site, or even worse, from an enemy jet. True, I havent mastered the skill of cannon use against every flag in the game from beyond visual range, that kind of makes my statements in THAT area less valid than yours, however, I still do attack them from BVR, but more often than not, either my angle from which I come from, or the angle of escape, I still wander into STA space. Using high altitude precision drop, against STA, I have no such risk. So in the end, if both methods work, who cares if you use any of those?

I've tested many methods and settled on the one that beats them all in accuracy and efficiency and then focused on it.

Accuracy is something you learn with every method. Be it dive, high-alt, horizontal. You can get the same, high accuracy with EACH method you choose. This is an undeniable fact. Efficiency and kills speed, the method you describe as "yours" is the fastest and most "profitable". BUT, doesnt deny that other methods work.

You can't tell me it's a mistake when I've got one of the best KDR in the game, the best pilot SPM in the game among other statistics. My methods have been proven through various means.

Im not questioning your method because I have it in my book aswell. Youre questioning other methods because you dont have them in your book. Im trying to point you towards an understanding that there is a reason why people bomb with different methods. Usually a viable reason.

Of course you couldn't verify this but you'll just have to take my word that I pretty much never miss a direct hit with my bomb no matter how fast or oddly a vehicle is moving. You can't do that when you're bombing from 400 feet it's just impossible.

I take a dive if the target is moving. If the target is stationary, I drop from high altitude. Just one example of using multiple methods to get the same result.

When one method is far more efficient than all other methods yet you still are stubborn enough to use other less reliable techniques (for a wow factor no less) then yes it does decrease your efficiency.

When we speak about me, then you have yet to realize that all my methods arent dispersed equally in my gameplay. There are the most used ones, and the least used ones, all mastered to a degree in which I can use them all.

No I hope you get my point. If you're dropping bombs on S2A... you're wasting bombs.

Accoording to your opinion. I take STA as a target as any. Bombing, strafing, it makes absolutely no difference to me. What I do care about is the ability to attack any target, at almost any situation I encounter, at a formidable efficiency.

I can't remember the last time S2A shot me down in any plane.

PW, comeon... J10.

It's much more reliable simply to quickly destroy all S2A sites in your general location even if they are unmanned. It takes less than a second worth of cannon rounds and completely eliminates any threat that may come from that area for a good long while. That way you can cruise in comfort and frag ground targets without worrying about becoming a target yourself.

Absolutely. Best defense is attack. But heres the general difference in gamestyle. I simply do not have the time to take care of every STA site I encounter. More often than not, In fact most of my game, Im engaged against aerial targets. ATS is secondary to me, so are the ground targets. This has nothing to do with team efficiency, but rather a simple example of MY OWN personal pleasure from the game. Im a dogfighter, whereas you clear STA sites to have a safe attack area, I cruise around at 300-400 to find enemy jets.

I think you're underestimating the cannons Chris. You point (at any range) you fire and they die. It doesn't get any more simple, accurate or efficient than that. And it certainly doesn't take more time then lining up and dropping a bomb(s) that would much better be spent on a tank or APC.

I know very well what cannons can do. The underestimation, even if there is, comes from the fact that the vast... vast majority of my game has been spent in servers with above 150 ms ping, usually somewhere at 200. Which is where missiles and bombs matter more than cannons. Notice that I have yet to say that bombing STA is the only and true way. Im saying that its perfectly legit way. And just because YOU think its not, doesnt mean it is.

Just for your pleasure. Do you know why people spam grenades in Karkand? Because they kill the fastest. Why waste bullets on a target when you can kill them with one nicely placed grenade. If you master grenade throwing, you can drop anyone at any time, at any angle. Just because DICE didnt design grenades to be primaries, doesnt mean the players wont use them as such... Same for cannons. Cannons were most probably designed by DICE for close distance dogfights, yet they have become an universal answer to ANY threat... Like grenades in Karkand...

Don't contradict yourself...

Sorry, thats one of those "touche" moments. I guess what I want to say is that I dont value cannons as the ultimate, the only and true answer to every situation. When I saw your PW video for the first time, I was like "wow". I mean, Ive been killed by them since pretty much day one, but the first person view efficiency was always impressive. And even when I started incorporating cannons more and more into my ATS attack patterns, I realized that they are still secondary for me.

In dogfights, I played my cards so I could open my targets for missile opportunities.
In ATS, I just practiced my drops.

But I'm glad that you've admitted that you do in fact use the cannon - single bomb method to instantly destroy any vehicle in the game with near 100% success rate. You'd be crazy not to afterall.

My success rate in utilizing this method heavily depends on my ping. Living in Eastern Europe, thats what you get if you play in US server. Disabling "Error Control" was a huge plus, basically shaving off an entire 100 ms off that 250 ms average ping in the servers I played.

I quickly realized that the company in Europe was a far cry from US standards, and playing in low ping servers near me has proven to be an unenjoyable stat padding...

So although I do use cannons, I never use them as my primary, or the way you do. Because they, without a proper lead work like water pistol. Nevertheless, I do press that trigger button.

Point taken but it's still a rare opportunity and really if you've got to bomb at odd angles then you're piloting is at fault and nothing else. With perfect piloting you'll always have enough height speed and time to turn and do a cannon -> single dive drop.

Heres an example. In a dogfight within multiple loops, when I get a target in my HUD, I can release the bombs, witha very high accuracy and continue the dogfight as if I didnt even drop the bombs. It happens rarely, but Im glad I know how to do it.

Find a server with Battlerecorder then. FRAPs hurt no doubt and I've got an average computer it makes it difficult for me too. Consider it an "extra" challenge.

I´ll take the challenge. It wont look pretty though. BR idea is actually pretty good.

Even in your video when you drop both bombs often times I noticed the stationary tank you were aiming at failed to be destroyed.

Thats because in my video I demonstrated multiple attack methods against targets using the HUD. As you saw, every attack came from similar angle, against one and the same target, and it was pretty clear that it was hastily made (video was made using cuts from one single attempt, if I wanted to make it look "professional" "cool" "effective" I would have created cuts from 100% direct hits). Plus, I had NO HUD info, limited view distance, and little time to properly align myself. While I can still do it usually, FRAPS not only lowered my FPS to an almost unplayable limit, it also created regular and irregular lagspikes, which severely limited my perfomance. I am far better than what you saw on the video, I can assure you that.

Fact is in a real game even tanks sitting at flags are rarely stationary for long (most good tank driving never stop moving even when capping a flag). The fact that the tank only has to shift a few feet in any direction for the bomb to become worthless makes it even less useful. I'd much rather risk getting "painted up" once in a blue moon to greatly increase my bombing accuracy and efficiency but that's just me. J-10 is going to spot you either way as metallica will gladly attest to and your best bet is to hope for a lucky kill on the J-10 and camp the rest of the round.. not hiding in the clouds.

The dissipation of splash damage in the bombs is pretty similar to grenades. Remember that topic you made about nades having a great damage in almost the entire radius? Well, its almost the same deal with bombs. When I doubledrop my bombs, they go "almost" after one and another, and they will hit close enough for the tank to be downed.

As for J10, its true, even with playing "hide and seek" youll eventually be spotted. But I cant force myself to shoot down a jet on a runway. Unless I want to make a point of course. And besides, Wake isnt a brandname for me. Kubra Dam is my game.

You misunderstand me. You drop a bomb at a target. Now you've either aimed at a stationary target or compensated for the targets current trajectory. Now during that 3 or 4 seconds it takes the bomb to impact the spot you've aiming all it takes is for the target to slow down/move/change direction/speed up ect. thus the longer your bomb is falling the longer your target has to change his location or trajectroy.

Again, you think that just because Im trying to justify a method of bombing that you do not accept (which is fine by me), you suddenly think that this is teh only viable method. No. Its in my book, sure, but I dont fly around just to bomb the crap out of people and miss moving vehicles from 300-400 feet high. Firstly, I have yet to master this method to even NEARLY as well as Xennore, secondly, Xennore showed in his video that he can bomb moving targets using his method just fine.


Uh isn't that what I just said? Again I've got the highest pilot SPM in the game thus I kill targets faster than anyone. Killing targets fast is a result of making the most out of your payload, spending as little time reloading as possible, finding good targets and aiming accurately. This bombing method discourages those good "kill efficiency" habits.

If you use it 24/7, which is up to Xennore to comment. I use it every once in a while when the opportunity arises.

Flying at 400, looking for a target, and you get a "Enemy armor spotted" at a flag 400 metres away from you, capping a flag. You either dive and cut your sweep for enemy jets, or you lower yoru nose a little, drop 2 and proceed with little to no effect on your focus on ATA. Just one example of a situation where an unpopular method saves time and focus.

[Supermario]

wow i dun even feel like reading that and lol chris would make a good lawyer

[Blades]

God damn, Chris and PW are going back and forth on this like crazy. You know why this is an awesome method PW? BECAUSE ITS FUN. Its like basketball. Its hilarious when you are already almost back at base and you see like 6 kills pop up because you dropped it at like 700 alt lol.

It also makes the enemy **** their pants everytime they get bombed because they cannot see your plane, they cannot see where you are now, they cannot see when you are coming in, which makes you unpredictable as hell and makes the enemy very insecure about their movements. Its hilarious.

So thats why I use it PW. Because its fun as hell. I did low alt for a while, then switched to this because its more fun. Its like purely dogfighting for a round (with cannons only if you are in the J10 and missles and cannons if you are in the F35) or playing anti tank for a round and taking down armor like mad.

And anyways PW, I found his dogfighing method pretty good, but he wasted the missles before lock when he shouldnt have and I also find the hunt and destroy method ineffective. But im not gonna rag on it, because its a different style of dogfighting, just like high alt bomb drops are another form of bombing.

[Bungalow_Bill]

I dont really think DICE intended the cannons to be primary weapon. Or else they wouldnt have added bombs that would destroy a tank in one double drop, or an APC in one single drop.
Intention is irrelevant. A single bomb can and does kill an APC unaided and brings a tank to flames and like it or not the cannon damages tanks just fine and less than a second worth of cannons brings a tank down enough to where the bomb will insta-kill the tank.

So in the end, if both methods work, who cares if you use any of those?
True both methods "work" but one method is clearly superior and simply by using it you become a more efficient pilot and you conserve your bombs for the targets that really do require them like tanks. Your infantry will thank you because I speak from experience on both sides of the equation when I say nothing is nicer than having that tank blocking your route to the next flag bombed and destroyed.


Accuracy is something you learn with every method. Be it dive, high-alt, horizontal. You can get the same, high accuracy with EACH method you choose. This is an undeniable fact. Efficiency and kills speed, the method you describe as "yours" is the fastest and most "profitable". BUT, doesnt deny that other methods work.
It's the same approach I take when I play infantry - I use only the G36E when I play infantry and I'm zen with that gun but if I spent time with other guns not only would I get less practice with the G36E but the different guns require different firing techniques which would interfere with the firing technique I've built up with the G36E. The difference with airplane bombing techniques is unlike weapons in this game there is one undisputed champion of bombing techniques. I understand that you could potentially use other techniques (or guns) and still kill people but you won't get as many quality kills nor will you kill the same number.

Accoording to your opinion. I take STA as a target as any. Bombing, strafing, it makes absolutely no difference to me. What I do care about is the ability to attack any target, at almost any situation I encounter, at a formidable efficiency.
Treating all targets the same is a bad piloting habit that many pilots have. When you see a tank you should drop a bomb. On a S2A site you should gun them because it's the most accurate safest and fastest method available. I could go on and on but bottom line is bombs are a critical component to being an effective pilot and if you're dropping them on targets that don't require bombs then you're either not killing the targets that do require them - and/or speding a HELL of a lot more time heading back to your airbase to reload which drops your kill efficiency quite a bit.

Absolutely. Best defense is attack. But heres the general difference in gamestyle. I simply do not have the time to take care of every STA site I encounter. More often than not, In fact most of my game, Im engaged against aerial targets. ATS is secondary to me, so are the ground targets. This has nothing to do with team efficiency, but rather a simple example of MY OWN personal pleasure from the game. Im a dogfighter, whereas you clear STA sites to have a safe attack area, I cruise around at 300-400 to find enemy jets.
We're talking about the most effective way to go about using an aircraft and once you resort to the "personal pleasure" debate you lose.

I know very well what cannons can do. The underestimation, even if there is, comes from the fact that the vast... vast majority of my game has been spent in servers with above 150 ms ping, usually somewhere at 200. Which is where missiles and bombs matter more than cannons. Notice that I have yet to say that bombing STA is the only and true way. Im saying that its perfectly legit way. And just because YOU think its not, doesnt mean it is.
You're viewing this from your own little perspective. When I'm on the ground as infantry pinned down by a tank and I see bombs hitting the enemy S2A rather than this tank that's stopping our advance I'm going to be pissed that our pilot is a useless retard. I've seen it happen ingame countless times but when you get a pilot that attacks hard targets and saves his bomb exclusively for them it's very nice.

Just for your pleasure. Do you know why people spam grenades in Karkand? Because they kill the fastest. Why waste bullets on a target when you can kill them with one nicely placed grenade. If you master grenade throwing, you can drop anyone at any time, at any angle. Just because DICE didnt design grenades to be primaries, doesnt mean the players wont use them as such... Same for cannons. Cannons were most probably designed by DICE for close distance dogfights, yet they have become an universal answer to ANY threat... Like grenades in Karkand...
Cannons are hardly universal because you can't rely on cannons to destroy tanks in a reasonable amount of time nor can most pilots use purely cannons to destroy an APC in a single pass (but it is possible). Point being intetion is irrelevant and the cannons do exist and are superior to bombs for certain tasks. The main task is of course dealing with S2A and as such your primary target for this high altitude bomb drop an incorrect target to begin with.

Sorry, thats one of those "touche" moments. I guess what I want to say is that I dont value cannons as the ultimate, the only and true answer to every situation. When I saw your PW video for the first time, I was like "wow". I mean, Ive been killed by them since pretty much day one, but the first person view efficiency was always impressive. And even when I started incorporating cannons more and more into my ATS attack patterns, I realized that they are still secondary for me.
You need to incorporate them more then. People ask me all the time how I manage to get a minimum of 60 kills every game and often times upwards of 100 kills and the answer is simple - cannons. When you go for these extreme kill counts it's vital that you spend as little time reloading as possible because thats wasted time. I know for a fact a good chunk of pilots spend more time flying back to reload and reloading then they do actually attack targets. This ties in with bombing technique for one critical reason and that is that you don't waste your bombs on targets that don't require them. Having a bomb payload available to counter tanks is important to your team and being able to on a single reload destroying two tanks is priceless. Less time at the airfield = more kills.

So although I do use cannons, I never use them as my primary, or the way you do. Because they, without a proper lead work like water pistol. Nevertheless, I do press that trigger button.
Lead on cannons is minimal on most targets. Spend that time you spend perfecting multiple bombing methods on leading cannons and I believe you'll get much more satasfactory results when piloting. Cannons are god.

if I wanted to make it look "professional" "cool" "effective" I would have created cuts from 100% direct hits).
I realize this but you've really made my point for me - if you aren't getting 100% direct hits most of the time you drop that bomb then it's an inferior way to bomb.

The dissipation of splash damage in the bombs is pretty similar to grenades. Remember that topic you made about nades having a great damage in almost the entire radius? Well, its almost the same deal with bombs. When I doubledrop my bombs, they go "almost" after one and another, and they will hit close enough for the tank to be downed.
The fact still remains that you're spending twice the ammo for the same result. Then we go right back to one of my initial points that if you can only manage one tank kill on a bomb load then you're going to be spending a hell of a lot more time reloading or ignoring targets.

Xennore showed in his video that he can bomb moving targets using his method just fine.
Like you said yourself those are cherry picked kills from probably 100s of gigs of fraps footage. Hitting and killing people in a jeep takes no more precision that hitting and destroying infantry on the ground. You can hit from what seems like 50 feet away in any direction and still kill whomever is in the jeep - leaving the occupants dead and the jeep mostly undamaged. Tanks require 2 extremely close bombs to destroy or 1 direct bomb and as a result is a much more difficult target than a fast moving jeep could ever be.

God damn, Chris and PW are going back and forth on this like crazy. You know why this is an awesome method PW? BECAUSE ITS FUN.
That's fine but we're not talking about which is more fun but which is more efficient. That does tie in with fun and enjoyment however because nothing is more enjoyabe for me then being a kick *** pilot for my team and ending the round with an average of 75 klls - a good portion of which are hard targets such as tanks and APCs - you know the kind of targets that if you kill enough of them allow your team to steamroll the enemy and win with ease.

[Blades]

Planewhore, he said that he got the footage over 2 rounds of wake island.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Planewhore, he said that he got the footage over 2 rounds of wake island.
Oh yeah, well I just played a 12 minute round of Strike at Karkand and ended the round with 250 points playing nothing but AT and it's obviously true because I said so right?

Not doubting at all that he did in fact get the footage which was not overly impressive over two rounds but just pointing that just because someone says something does not make it true. It's a little odd he'd even mention how long it took him to get the footage and would indicate that it is perhaps cherry picked.

[Blades]

Well I was just reminding you. I dunno really.

[Chris_Redfield]

Intention is irrelevant. A single bomb can and does kill an APC unaided and brings a tank to flames and like it or not the cannon damages tanks just fine and less than a second worth of cannons brings a tank down enough to where the bomb will insta-kill the tank.

A single bomb brings a tank to near 50% health. Not flames.


True both methods "work" but one method is clearly superior and simply by using it you become a more efficient pilot and you conserve your bombs for the targets that really do require them like tanks.

And I have never said it wasnt so. While you so foolishly believe that I take one method above others like you do right now, I dont. I simply say that I have so many tricks in my arsenal that I can do anything at any time, which in turn not only saves my time, but also boosts my efficiency. This never has been "Method A is clearly overall better than Method B". Well, it is for you...

It's the same approach I take when I play infantry - ´...

Here you go. Since SWAT4, I use the best weapon to fulfill its role in certain area.
I dont even play "kits", I just play "weapons". Long distance maps, G36C. CQC, Remington. Variable distances, M16/AK101.

I could go on and on but bottom line is bombs are a critical component to being an effective pilot and if you're dropping them on targets that don't require bombs then you're either not killing the targets that do require them - and/or speding a HELL of a lot more time heading back to your airbase to reload which drops your kill efficiency quite a bit.

Absolutely. But what youre once again forgetting about me is that I dont spend my time attacking STAs in order to attack ground targets. I spend my time sweeping the skies. The way this works for me is-
If a flag doesnt turn white, I fly with a full payload, blast the first STA (maybe) I see, with the cannons, take altitude and then cruise around in search for aerial targets. If theres a flag that turned white, I drop. If theres a tank/APC spotted, I drop.

BF2 flight for me and its fun does not lie in points nor SPM. I dont mind using the plane to attack the ground and make 50-90 kills a round, but sooner or later I will be distracted by other jets and I will be doing more dogfighting. Competitive nature.

We're talking about the most effective way to go about using an aircraft and once you resort to the "personal pleasure" debate you lose.

And I said it before, my stance is that the more cards you have in your sleeves the more unpredictable you are. If you can drop bombs with precision in a middle of a dogfight, your skills benefit you.

When I'm on the ground as infantry pinned down by a tank and I see bombs hitting the enemy S2A rather than this tank that's stopping our advance I'm going to be pissed that our pilot is a useless retard.

What makes you think I would rather bomb an STA site than a tank? Because I said bombing STA is great from high altitude because it offers relative safety? If theres a tank spotted at enemy flag which I see a squad is about to cap, you bet theres bombs coming down, on that tank. I value minimap far more than most pilots.

Point being intetion is irrelevant and the cannons do exist and are superior to bombs for certain tasks. The main task is of course dealing with S2A and as such your primary target for this high altitude bomb drop an incorrect target to begin with.

And so are grenades...

As for targets, youre stuck on some fabricated fact that I run around in a jet bombing STA sites from high altitude. I dont. Its just one scenario.

You need to incorporate them more then. People ask me all the time how I manage to get a minimum of 60 kills every game and often times upwards of 100 kills and the answer is simple - cannons. When you go for these extreme kill counts it's vital that you spend as little time reloading as possible because thats wasted time.

If Id go into extreme kill counts, I would be bored to tears with jets. Flying and creating maximum impact to the ground has lost its appeal ever since I got a joystick last year and flew for a week or two doing just that- evading every dogfight and bombing/attacking as much as possible. Somewhere near September uninstallation was in order and I played SWAT4 for more than 6 months almost without touching BF2. What keeps me interested in jet aspect of BF2? Dogfighting.

And while I value the importance of ATS capabilities and role of the jet, Ive done my share of work to ensure that I can fulfill my purpose.

Lead on cannons is minimal on most targets. Spend that time you spend perfecting multiple bombing methods on leading cannons and I believe you'll get much more satasfactory results when piloting. Cannons are god.

Youve never tried using cannons at 250 ping, have you? Its quite a challenge. Even now, at 150ish ping I have in most US East Coast servers, I have to lead about 10-30 feet from a cars first wheel, and about 10-30 feet below it/closer to me in order to get a hit. Its quite an art.

I realize this but you've really made my point for me - if you aren't getting 100% direct hits most of the time you drop that bomb then it's an inferior way to bomb.

As I said, dont judge my skills by a poor video which I made in severe conditions. I made that video to prove a point to certain gentlemen. "Inferior" is really "best/worst depending on a situation".

The fact still remains that you're spending twice the ammo for the same result. Then we go right back to one of my initial points that if you can only manage one tank kill on a bomb load then you're going to be spending a hell of a lot more time reloading or ignoring targets.

With maps being that small, this can be greatly compensated by attacking targets that indeed offer more points. Youre describing pilots with sever tunnel vision. "Reload- uncap- reload". This isnt me.

Like you said yourself those are cherry picked kills from probably 100s of gigs of fraps footage. Hitting and killing people in a jeep takes no more precision that hitting and destroying infantry on the ground. You can hit from what seems like 50 feet away in any direction and still kill whomever is in the jeep - leaving the occupants dead and the jeep mostly undamaged. Tanks require 2 extremely close bombs to destroy or 1 direct bomb and as a result is a much more difficult target than a fast moving jeep could ever be.

Not Xennores own words, but its said that the footage is made using 2 rounds in Wake, which he didnt deny (even though he has commented in this very topic). I think he left a LOT of kills out and just demonstrated one very impressive method. If you still havent figured it out- it was a demonstration video of 2 things
*high altitude precision drops
*free chase cam utilization in a dogfight

I dont judge your dogfighting abilities by the videos youve provided with you chasing F35Bs in a rather poor and unskilled fashion, I could.

That's fine but we're not talking about which is more fun but which is more efficient.

And more efficient is "more tricks".

[Xennore]

Oh yeah, well I just played a 12 minute round of Strike at Karkand and ended the round with 250 points playing nothing but AT and it's obviously true because I said so right?

Not doubting at all that he did in fact get the footage which was not overly impressive over two rounds but just pointing that just because someone says something does not make it true. It's a little odd he'd even mention how long it took him to get the footage and would indicate that it is perhaps cherry picked.

Find the post were i said that i got the footage over 2 rounds of wake

[Chris_Redfield]

AFAIK, that was shot over about 2 rounds of wake island on his mate's (lazarus) computer, well that's the story anyway.. Yeah xennore is a bit of a freak, i've been on the recieving end of his bombs and A2A before and he makes it all so simple and systematic..

Xennore: is that video link a 'finished' version of the video, or that one that has been up for a while? because i have the old one and don't wanna d/l it again, i have to watch my downloads atm :(

Xennore, if thats a mistake, dont blame it on PW. It started from this quote.

[Bungalow_Bill]

A single bomb brings a tank to near 50% health. Not flames.

Maybe this is why you're confused Chris. Ah it's all starting to make sense now. Rather than bothering arguing back and forth about a key element of why my method is best I decided to make a quick video to put the nail in the coffin.

http://media.putfile.com/Bomb-versus-Tank

[pYura]

Maybe this is why you're confused Chris. Ah it's all starting to make sense now. Rather than bothering arguing back and forth about a key element of why my method is best I decided to make a quick video to put the nail in the coffin.

http://media.putfile.com/Bomb-versus-Tank

Thats right, 1 bomb on a tank is an insta-kill most of the time...

btw nice video :)

[Chris_Redfield]

Maybe this is why you're confused Chris. Ah it's all starting to make sense now. Rather than bothering arguing back and forth about a key element of why my method is best I decided to make a quick video to put the nail in the coffin.

http://media.putfile.com/Bomb-versus-Tank

Point taken.

[imported_yehaaa7]

aviator with joystick seems to be hard

[big_bus159]

Nicde guide! It helped me alot!

[imported_VISTREL]

Nice guide but as far as videos go, not really. For example, Split-s. In that video it shows you what is "Split-s", and then just one boring round with no maneuvers at all. And it was filmed in J-10. I can sleep and fly without worrying in that jet.

Why not make a video filmed in F-35, full round on Gulf of Oman.
Also, section doesn't have enough info about other moves, combinations, etc.

Bombing videos are cool though.

[LaZaRuS.au]

Here is a movie done by me Enjoy!
http://www.coffslan.net/LaZaRuS/xennore.rar
So Thats where all my bandwidth is going.. lol

edit: and a LOL to all the guys who said that this is the footage of 'his best frags' .. this video was recorded on my comp because his is too crap to play with fraps.. the footage was taken from about..3-4 rounds of wake.. about 2 hours total with the majority of the time spent getting TK'd for the jet.. the vid was origionally made to show a few clannies how he fly's and it was just 'patched' together.. I'll help him do another one soon probs where he actually show off his real skill ;)

[Bassu]

http://video.google.pl/videoplay?docid=1432911491699631201&q=mcmt+flyby

http://video.google.pl/videoplay?docid=2529218498201825874&q=mcmt+flyby

http://video.google.pl/videoplay?docid=8112075751365447854&q=mcmt+flyby


Some cool (IMO) flybys, by (IMO) the best Polish pilot -mcmt.

[LaZaRuS.au]

he's not bad.. not as good as xennore IMO
has problems keeping MG in line with the target and stuff

[IDC-Shorly]

Whats the problem of getting 250 points on a round on Karkand as AT, and even less in two rounds?

Anyway, I think Chris is right in his way of learning noobs to play, that is the only efficient way to get better.

And, I also admit that saving ammo is equal to more kills. For a JSF-pilot, there really isnt much to learn from j10ers. That jet really is the tricky one. You can shoot out an ATS-site easily, but like on Wake, there are---tons of them, with too may people without nothing to do, other like idling in an AA hoping something comes by. And evading STA without flares requires knowledge of which, and where. Usually, ur tailed by another flying thing, not a jet, but j10. (And, as people might have read before, they dont have pilots, but only aviators). [A pilot is flying something, an aviator is in a flying thing].

[Supermario]

are u ever gonna post the new video i wanna see more ASAP!

[Xennore]

are u ever gonna post the new video i wanna see more ASAP!

Yeah i just recently got a new computer that should run fraps A Grade,
being away from the gaming scene for awhile, so i'll get onto makin a kick *** vid.

[Marveric]

How do you get the jets to leave behind that white trail? Is that one of the localization mods? Because for some reason I don't have that.

[Spik3d]

How do you get the jets to leave behind that white trail? Is that one of the localization mods? Because for some reason I don't have that.

That's when you're damaged.

[Marveric]

Well if I shoot a jet with one missile he still doesn't leave that white trail. It's the one that comes from the edge of both wings, not the body of the plane.

[Rick Astley]

You get that when you turn and make crazy moves. Just go into 3rd person and do a barrel roll, you'll see it.

[Xennore]

How do you get the jets to leave behind that white trail? Is that one of the localization mods? Because for some reason I don't have that.

1.Settings
2.graphics
3.Effects = medium