Rumors of Multiplayer

[claptrap]

I've heard that in multiplayer, about half the physics, if not all of them may be left out of the massive levels they are probably creating. Of course a game like this would have a lot of lag calculating everything going on in the server to the computers, like ragdolls and tree limbs flying off.

So this has been rumored to be without physics if it were online, in my opinion, if this is anything like BF2 (like people said when if they got hit with a tranq dart, the amount of time to wake up or respawn you would still be in place, in your ragdoll) than the only thing they would have to calculate back to computers is the ragdolls of the players.. right? Leave the rest of the rubble and limbs from trees to be calculated on the clients computer..

prime example is what i stated before.. BF2, the ram hungry network lagging game.. if you don't have a good cable connection(or the slight chance of having a good DSL connection) then you can kiss your own *** out of a game like this because of all the crap happening on the other side of the map, despite some of those laggy slowdowns, its still a good ok game.

What do you think, do we really need to see exacly what other players see, or have client side phyics of your own, accept player ragdolls, or maybe key physics of something(like a flag or whatnot)

At least id think something like this would improve network capabilities from server to client not having to calculate so many physics to 30 to 60 players..

No flame please its worthless, just tell me what you think, and if these rumors are indeed true.

[CrysisPwnz]

Tree's have to be server side, things like walls, anything at all that could change gameplay for anyone, MUST be handled by the server. Or else people will complain "How did you shoot me through all those trees 1.5K aways" then some guy goes "Theres no trees stupid I shot them down" other guy "Whoa, no you didnt they still there" Dead ragdolls can be client side, consdiering they'll do nothing so...

[DarQraven]

That's not entirely true. The exact physics do not have to be sent over the internet. Instead, if the physics system is consistent enough in it's calculations, you could send information about the impacts that generate the physics.
When you apply this to the trees, instead of sending the exact location of the tree every single net-update, you send: *weapon* impact, TreeObject, x50;y70;z305.
Then, you let the client calculate the animation of the tree falling down.

However, this only works if the physics system isn't too random in it's results. In other words, when you shoot the exact same bullet at the exact same tree in the exact same way twice, the tree should fall the exact same way twice. Otherwise, for client A the tree might fall left, while the tree will fall right for client B.
But hell, I'm no network expert. This is just the way I would go about online physics.

[claptrap]

darqaven is exacly what i meant, let most of the physics that may not be important like tree limbs falling be handled physics side, bullet registry ALWAYS has to be server side.. because if it wasn't, whats the point? so if it wasn't server side, how would people die? lol , so that would have to go for bullet registry on the tree limbs and whatnot correct? that way your computer will handle the falling animation.. what you said crysispwnz made no sense

[lavbanka]

Actually they both make sence but not all of them are good. The best one is darqaven's way. That's what I was thinking.

[Iwantcable]

I like physics and all, but I'd rather have a lag-free (latency and fps) game than see rag dolls or falling trees (I want them in SP though :D).

[Whiteplague]

i agree with iwantcable, but i would like to see some if not alot of that stuff in multiplayer, it makes it more interesting

[Appclypse]

Yes but im crossed because im so shallow with games LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lavbanka]

Me too :)

[I am RKO]

Crysis will stress alot of machines and internet connections, but it'll be a controled stress.

[Appclypse]

Im gona be stressed when it doesn't work on my pc!

[Whiteplague]

lol ten-four on that appclypse

[silK`]

Haha, nice one Appclypse! :)

[margav]

But if the client side does some of the destruction, itll be much easier for hackers to modify the game, like changing the game levels, wouldnt it?

[lavbanka]

hmmm... true... but, (I don't know stop staring at me)

[Covert_Fox]

hope they get 64 player servers would be amazing

[Vash2051]

128 ftw. hehe maybe a little too big for crysis. But it'd be a good concept for modders to use if it could support 128.

[Steakslim]

That would indeed be pretty massive and cool.

[Mr.Bubbles43]

128 ftw. hehe maybe a little too big for crysis. But it'd be a good concept for modders to use if it could support 128.

128 player fist fight only server ftw

[Vash2051]

Pistol Knife server. roflroflrofl

[Steakslim]

128 player fist fight only server ftw

Lol, it'd be like the opening fight from Gangs of New York....but with if it was all fought by Robocop and the Terminator.......AWESOME.

[Mr.Bubbles43]

Pistol Knife server. roflroflrofl

house only server-only allowed to throw houses!

[Whiteplague]

i wonder, does crysis even have a knife? btw rko tell AAK to attempt that 128 again make a post in the Sir. section or community section of total 2142 maybe we can actually get to trying it out see if like Elxx says it wont go past 64 i think you should try it again anyway

[Appclypse]

don't need a knife you can just punch them to pieces.

[Mr.Bubbles43]

don't need a knife you can just punch them to pieces.

128 player fist fight only server ftw

to quote myself

[DarQraven]

Hmm, the part about the easier hacking is true...
I doubt it would make for much of an advantage though .. what's the point of hacking a few trees down the wrong way?
In any case, maybe it could use a client feedback system.
For instance:

Client shoots tree -> sends shot data to server (serverside hit calculation)
Server approves hit and sends back physics instruction to client
Client calculates tree falling over and sends 3-8 'consistency checks' to server
(Consistency checks being the location of the tree)
Server compares consistency check with own physics data, and adjusts if needed. Sends corrected data back to client.

May be possible...

edit: nevermind. This would only work on a Listen server, because those have to calculate the physics for themselves anyway. If you did this for a dedicated server, it would have to do physics too, and the whole point was removing that load. D'OH!

[Vash2051]

But it was a lot of words and that means you win!

[Iwantcable]

But it was a lot of words and that means you win!
:laugh:

I hope we're able to have fist-only servers. That'd probably be a lot of fun.

[Steakslim]

:laugh:

I hope we're able to have fist-only servers. That'd probably be a lot of fun.

Imagine with 128 people, the sheer numbers of flying bodies the moment the 2 groups just collide in a fist fight, especially if you can still grab people and toss them. It'd be like the burly brawl from Matrix Reloaded. *drools uncontrollably*

[GenHoffmann]

That's not entirely true. The exact physics do not have to be sent over the internet. Instead, if the physics system is consistent enough in it's calculations, you could send information about the impacts that generate the physics.
When you apply this to the trees, instead of sending the exact location of the tree every single net-update, you send: *weapon* impact, TreeObject, x50;y70;z305.
Then, you let the client calculate the animation of the tree falling down.

However, this only works if the physics system isn't too random in it's results. In other words, when you shoot the exact same bullet at the exact same tree in the exact same way twice, the tree should fall the exact same way twice. Otherwise, for client A the tree might fall left, while the tree will fall right for clients given the lag and prediction logic involved.
But hell, I'm no network expert. This is just the way I would go about online physics.

You are right..for the most part.
1)Player shoots a house with a rocket launcher
2)Vector of the rocket is send to server and physics are calculated client side
3) Server sends vector of rocket to all clients who are "close" to the house
4)Server receives final "rubble" location over a couple of ticks from client and gradually updates "far" clients OR server calculates rubble location in parallel with client (but over a longer period of time to decrease CPU load) and sends it to all clients.

This method or a variant works well for this simple case. The problem is what happens if two players shoot at the house at the same time..then all hell breaks loose. I would say in that case its essentially imposible to get a truly consistent result for all clients.
Half Life 2 has to deal with that on a much smaller scale in their deathmatch variants where people tend to throw a lot of stuff at each other. They solve it by allowing for initial client side physics with "best guess" predicition of other clients and then usually when the player is looking away or a few milliseconds after the barrel has come to a stop they reposition it to its "real" position..the position the server has calcluated.
To translate that to Crysis: Two people shoot at a building...or one player shoots at a building while a car slams into it. Both involved players will see a consistent non-lagged building falling apart but then (more or less obvious) they will see some pieces "magically" changing positions or (which would be more rare) the players position would need to be adjusted as well.

[Mr.Bubbles43]

You are right..for the most part.
1)Player shoots a house with a rocket launcher
2)Vector of the rocket is send to server and physics are calculated client side
3) Server sends vector of rocket to all clients who are "close" to the house
4)Server receives final "rubble" location over a couple of ticks from client and gradually updates "far" clients OR server calculates rubble location in parallel with client (but over a longer period of time to decrease CPU load) and sends it to all clients.

This method or a variant works well for this simple case. The problem is what happens if two players shoot at the house at the same time..then all hell breaks loose. I would say in that case its essentially imposible to get a truly consistent result for all clients.
Half Life 2 has to deal with that on a much smaller scale in their deathmatch variants where people tend to throw a lot of stuff at each other. They solve it by allowing for initial client side physics with "best guess" predicition of other clients and then usually when the player is looking away or a few milliseconds after the barrel has come to a stop they reposition it to its "real" position..the position the server has calcluated.
To translate that to Crysis: Two people shoot at a building...or one player shoots at a building while a car slams into it. Both involved players will see a consistent non-lagged building falling apart but then (more or less obvious) they will see some pieces "magically" changing positions or (which would be more rare) the players position would need to be adjusted as well.

If a tree falls in the woods, but nobody was near it, where does it fall?

[lavbanka]

lol, what if a tree falls in the woods, but nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound? :):)