Make all vehicles 2 player dependent

[$kelet0r]

That's right
I would like to see all vehicles to function optimally with 2 players and I want to use BF2 as the basis of my suggestions as I'd imagine the basic machine can't be too different
Helicopters (which are the jets of BF2142) - obviously a pilot and gunner in a similar setup to BF2
The Changes i'd like to see
- The pilot cannot switch to the copilot seat only the other way
- The pilot has a laser designator for his rockets to make them more effective within a small deviation but with a range limit of 100m and greater splash damage with the copilot retaining his duel weapons and both maintaining their damage inflicting ratios
- ejection seats
- chopper nose dives with no pilot rather then spin up

Tanks - a driver and a gunner with a very lightly defended tertiary 50cal on the turret for soldiers to hitch a ride
Changes
- Gunner shoots coaxial mg equivalent and main gun
- driver controls smoke and a cluster bomblet launcher effective against dug in infantry mounted on the rear of the turret but forward firing only
- The tank is equally vulnerable to Chopper rockets and AT rockets = 6 chopper rockets means 6 AT rocks to destroy a tank. Handheld AT gets the advantage of no lockon sensor when in unguided mode and operates with the intention of crippling a tank by disabling the turret(by shooting the turret axle) or smashing the threads/hover mechanism with a one shot kill sweet spot on the turret top or right under the main gun and above the driver. repair time is the equivalent of restoring a tank to full health currently.

Mechs
- Driver and Gunner
Driver controls missiles, Gunner operates arm machine guns

And so on
Discuss

[DarkIllusion]

than it will suk when no1 wants to join u in a vehicle...

[$kelet0r]

The vehicle will still be a killing machien just far less effective - it is a team game after all :)

[ReaperOfsouls]

The vehicle will still be a killing machien just far less effective - it is a team game after all :)

Indeed it is but that still does not stop the smacktard little kids from playing. I would hope they would not do this. It sounds really cool, and it is. But my whole thing is praticality. Unfortunently 9 times out of 10 you will have a noob/non team player as your partner in the vehicle limiting its effectiveness and making your game less enjoyable. I love that idea but when the rubber meets the road its not a good thing.

[The JizzBomber]

Indeed it is but that still does not stop the smacktard little kids from playing. I would hope they would not do this. It sounds really cool, and it is. But my whole thing is praticality. Unfortunently 9 times out of 10 you will have a noob/non team player as your partner in the vehicle limiting its effectiveness and making your game less enjoyable. I love that idea but when the rubber meets the road its not a good thing.

Reaper pretty much nailed it on the head with exactly what I was thinking. The only real way your going to be able to use this effectiveness is if one your friends/clan members jumps in with you. Your going to have a better chance of them really helping then you will with some random person on the server. Which is unfortunate...

[Ownerofall]

That's right
I would like to see all vehicles to function optimally with 2 players and I want to use BF2 as the basis of my suggestions as I'd imagine the basic machine can't be too different
Helicopters (which are the jets of BF2142) - obviously a pilot and gunner in a similar setup to BF2
The Changes i'd like to see
- The pilot cannot switch to the copilot seat only the other way
- The pilot has a laser designator for his rockets to make them more effective within a small deviation but with a range limit of 100m and greater splash damage with the copilot retaining his duel weapons and both maintaining their damage inflicting ratios
- ejection seats
- chopper nose dives with no pilot rather then spin up

Tanks - a driver and a gunner with a very lightly defended tertiary 50cal on the turret for soldiers to hitch a ride
Changes
- Gunner shoots coaxial mg equivalent and main gun
- driver controls smoke and a cluster bomblet launcher effective against dug in infantry mounted on the rear of the turret but forward firing only
- The tank is equally vulnerable to Chopper rockets and AT rockets = 6 chopper rockets means 6 AT rocks to destroy a tank. Handheld AT gets the advantage of no lockon sensor when in unguided mode and operates with the intention of crippling a tank by disabling the turret(by shooting the turret axle) or smashing the threads/hover mechanism with a one shot kill sweet spot on the turret top or right under the main gun and above the driver. repair time is the equivalent of restoring a tank to full health currently.

Mechs
- Driver and Gunner
Driver controls missiles, Gunner operates arm machine guns

And so on
Discuss

you just described a game called Joint Ops, in it you need 1 person to drive tank, 1 in turret, 1 to drive apc, 1 to control gun and so on

[straylight]

you just described a game called Joint Ops, in it you need 1 person to drive tank, 1 in turret, 1 to drive apc, 1 to control gun and so on


laf yeha you beat me to it, I played Joint ops ALL THE TIME wheni came out, i was so impressed, until it turned out the developers had no power over cheating at all... Its crazy rampant... ANYHOW, The vehicle method described is JUST like Joint ops, a tank gunner cannot MOVE the vehicle at the same time.

For what its worth, this isnt a problem. MOST of the time you get people who are serious about being a gunner, etc. Its a good idea- but it also has HEAVY TEAMWORK required implications- too heavy for DICE to consider it.

[Ownerofall]

laf yeha you beat me to it, I played Joint ops ALL THE TIME wheni came out, i was so impressed, until it turned out the developers had no power over cheating at all... Its crazy rampant... ANYHOW, The vehicle method described is JUST like Joint ops, a tank gunner cannot MOVE the vehicle at the same time.

For what its worth, this isnt a problem. MOST of the time you get people who are serious about being a gunner, etc. Its a good idea- but it also has HEAVY TEAMWORK required implications- too heavy for DICE to consider it.

Took the words right out of my mouth

[WarGimp]

I've always been of the opinion that good vehicle/asset balance is a perty simple equasion... The more powerful the asset, the more players it should take to man it.

A great example of this was Tribes2's hover tank. It required a gunner for the main turret. The driver had to drive, the gunner gunned. Lonewolves hated it, but teamplayers loved it. Their bomber was cool too. Took 3 players to properly man. Pilot, bomber/gunner, and tailgunner (who could also toss flares). It was possible to use it with 2 players, but you REALLY needed that 3rd man to be effective since missiles would put you down fairly fast without him.

Position switching involved having to physicly move from one position to the other. Often a trick thing to do while in action. :p

Since there were still other things solos could do, it didn't leave the game empty.

Conitering the impact that Tribes had on Dice's design of the BF games, I'm suprised they didn't capitalize on this concept.

[Ownerofall]

I've always been of the opinion that good vehicle/asset balance is a perty simple equasion... The more powerful the asset, the more players it should take to man it.

A great example of this was Tribes2's hover tank. It required a gunner for the main turret. The driver had to drive, the gunner gunned. Lonewolves hated it, but teamplayers loved it. Their bomber was cool too. Took 3 players to properly man. Pilot, bomber/gunner, and tailgunner (who could also toss flares). It was possible to use it with 2 players, but you REALLY needed that 3rd man to be effective since missiles would put you down fairly fast without him.

Position switching involved having to physicly move from one position to the other. Often a trick thing to do while in action. :p

Since there were still other things solos could do, it didn't leave the game empty.

Conitering the impact that Tribes had on Dice's design of the BF games, I'm suprised they didn't capitalize on this concept.

tribes2? is that new? never heard of it

[WarGimp]

tribes2? is that new? never heard of it
Lol
Um. No. It's old.
http://www.planettribes.com/tribes2/
The odd thing is that many of it's design elements haven't been surpassed. It's got the best sensor system in any FPS and had great (if limited) vehicle balance. It's rather on the fugly side now, but it's still prolly the best designed FPS yet released. Might be worth checking out if you can find one of the free CDKeys floating around.

BTW, do NOT bother with Tribes: Vengeance (the latest and final Tribes game). The publisher doomed the project by totally mishandling it.

[Ownerofall]

as soon as i saw the header i closed it, looks like WoW :mad:

[WarGimp]

as soon as i saw the header i closed it, looks like WoW :mad:
Um. No.
Not like Wow at all. It's a sci-fi-fantisy FPS. The "space orks" (called Bioderms) you saw are just a different set of player models. The main coolness to the Tribes games is that all players came equiped with limited thrust jetpacks and the ability to "ski" off of terrain. This alowed a level of mobility that was just crazy-cool. Tribes was also the first game to include multi-manned vehicles, a commander mode, and really focused on teamwork as a design element.

It was so far ahead of it's time, the rest of the industry STILL hasn't caught up.

[vbl]

The more powerful the asset, the more players it should take to man it.

This is all you need to know on the subject. Planetside did it similarly and it works very well.

[straylight]

as soon as i saw the header i closed it, looks like WoW :mad:

It look slike that because its old, Its really like Team fortress in space- with more refined weapons and classes. Thats one of the thing I could never get behind in Tribes, I like more of a goal than "guard the flag". Granted you guard flags in bf2, but you cant take/steal them.

-straylight

[menace-uk-]

Indeed it is but that still does not stop the smacktard little kids from playing. I would hope they would not do this. It sounds really cool, and it is. But my whole thing is praticality. Unfortunently 9 times out of 10 you will have a noob/non team player as your partner in the vehicle limiting its effectiveness and making your game less enjoyable. I love that idea but when the rubber meets the road its not a good thing.

I agree it is the same as the teamkill forgive/punish in BF2 is a good idea but idiots/kids/smaktards or any other name ruins a good idea:D

[WarGimp]

It look slike that because its old, Its really like Team fortress in space- with more refined weapons and classes. Thats one of the thing I could never get behind in Tribes, I like more of a goal than "guard the flag". Granted you guard flags in bf2, but you cant take/steal them.

-straylight
Tribes also had the best crop of gametypes going.
Capture the flag
Death match
Team Death Match
Capture and hold (much like Domination)
Defend and Destroy (win by taking out their assets while gaurding yours)
Siege (one sided Defend and Destroy)
Find and Retreve (A number of flags are on the field, the team that gets all of them back to base wins)
King of the Hill (the guy who sticks close to a fixed point and manages to kill anyone else get's points)
Rabbit (Basicly kill the guy with the ball mode)
Harvester (When you kill someone, he drops a flag plus any he picked up. Pick up those flags and return 'em to a nexus for points)

These were all included playtypes and you could find servers playing any of 'em most of the time. There were even more brought out as time went on thanks to server side modding.

Again, Tribes2 hasn't been surpassed in the industry yet and folks really should look to it as a model of what a very well designed game should be.

[Ownerofall]

id rather blow a MEC soldiers head off with a g3 the a bioderm with a rock or w/e lol

[Punisher18]

That is a hood idea in theory... but remember all the good theorys from bf2 that destroyed it.

[zachattack]

i agree

[Fullforce]

According to PCGamer, DICE are putting more pressure on teams of vehicle operators.

[Ownerofall]

According to PCGamer, DICE are putting more pressure on teams of vehicle operators.

yeah, i read that too

[Raphael]

Well it sounds good on paper but i dont think it will workout.
:(

[PsYcHo.KiLLa]

I totaly agree with you, $kelet0r.

This would force people to perfect gameplay, and soon, the mech would actually be extremely powerfull if the squad in the mech was good enough in teamwork. This way, the driver would be focused on only driving, the gunner focused on only gunning, etc.

Of course, the smaller mechs would be singlularly commanded.

[Punisher18]

that sounds like a good theory and it is... but there are always the deekheads that like to screw up the game or that dont want to be in w/you so they dont do anything or they do the complete oppisite of what they should do.

[straylight]

Punisher true, but then again, Didnt we say the same thing about people joining a squad? and then people getting in our APC? I think as long as there are no specific EXPLOITS, it might work out rather well.
I remember when I read about players being punished for teamvehicle damage, and what a brilliant idea that was. I hope they figure out something to keep people in line in this relase too.
What I would LOVE is for people to not get ANY credit for suicide bombing. That pisses me off something fierce.

-straylight

[ReaperOfsouls]

yeah, i read that too


As did I. But I dont think they will be two player depedent. I think dice will make it so the gunners are more importent, but not needed.

In the article it said they are working very hard to keep things balenced.

At the same time it would be stupid for them to ruin gameplay.