Real Mechs!

[WarGimp]

Just for fun I thought I'd do a crawl for real mechs to see where the current state of things are. Unsuprisingly, it seems we've got a loooooong way to go before we're going to see 100 ton walking death machines on the battle field, but I did trip over some interesting developments.

http://neogentronyx.com/
http://neogentronyx.com/images/stories/nmx04-1a/ManNMachine.jpg
These guys are building an animie style mech for the purposes of putting on shows. Equiped with flamers and standing 18 feet tall, it's perty impessive looking. Unfortunatly, it's not doing anything overly spectacular just yet. Seems that they need a little funding boost before they can push on.
The dream: http://neogentronyx.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=57
The (unfortunate) reality: http://neogentronyx.com/downloads/12_step.avi
K. Not so impressive.

Next up:
http://digitalcamera.101reviews.com/news/worlds-1st-mech-warrior-becomes-reality
http://digitalcamera.101reviews.com/wp-content/LandWalker.jpg
Whoa! This one can actually walk!
http://www.sakakibara-kikai.co.jp/products/other/images/robo_s.wmv
It shoots too!
http://www.sakakibara-kikai.co.jp/products/other/images/shot.wmv
It also cheats. It's not actually walking at all. It's using ratcheted wheels in the feet to "skate". It don't actually lift it's feet. The tenis ball launchers are also perty giggle worthy rather than impressive... but you gotta love the space invader targets!
No massive fighting machine here. Something that can be defeated by a sidewalk isn't going to become the next *step* in combat technology.

Looking elsewhere...
Hmm... Toyta is in the game! They must have a *ahem* leg up on things since they build stuff that works AND happen to be native to the homeland of all things mecha, yeah?
http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/news/04/1203_1d.html (scroll down)
I couldn't find any vids, sorry, but this thing aparently really walks. Unfortunatly, it's max speed is 1.35 kmh. Hrm. I've seen a cippled gerbal outpreform that. I really hope this isn't this fashion statment isn't a requirement of mecha piloting either:
http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/5574704157181125.JPG?0.43397378105996454

Ah ha! This is impressive!
http://fpiarticle.blogspot.com/2005/03/robosaurus.html
http://photos1.blogger.com/img/235/1003/400/robosaurus.jpg
Erm, k. Never mind. It's a gag contruct that's been around since the late '80s doing monster truck shows.

This is starting to remind me of the grand 'ol days of the flying machine...
http://www.aviation-heritage.com/images/MaximP1.jpg
We've come a long way since then... so maybe there's hope yet.

I'll update this when/if I trip across any breaking real mech news. In the meantime, see what you can dig up, bring forth your comments, and remember:

"It is apparent to me that the possibilities of the aeroplane, which two or three years ago were thought to hold the solution to the [flying machine] problem, have been exhausted, and that we must turn elsewhere."
-- Thomas Edison, American inventor, 1895.

[NiSsE]

That Robosaurus is really cool i have seen it many time before on TV :D and about meches i don't think the problem is bulding material or anything it's how too keep it balanced when moveing one of the legs, becasue they have build many robats and stuff but they have more then 2 legs if they are big. maybe it isen't the only problem but it's atleast the biggest :(

[ConscriptVirus]

*snicker**

[WarGimp]

Oop. Thanks for reminding me... I was going to add a link to Honda's Asimo project: http://world.honda.com/ASIMO/
Seems they've broken the balance problem. Problem is, the bigger they are, the harder (and more likely) they fall. It's harder to balance something big than something small. You've got more mass to deal with and it takes longer to make ajustments to apendages. Massive Gyros could help, but they're... um, massive. As in heavy. As in they put a heck of alot of strain on your legs designs. Interestingly enough, it seems that BF2142's "chicken leg" design seems to be the most practical way to go for heavy walkers.

Oh, and Robosaurus is a fraud. It doesn't walk. It uses wheels.

[ReaperOfsouls]

Lol good stuff

[[MyIS]Spetsnaz]

Whenever humanity discovers how or why something works, they being trying to replicate it with modern computing.

One of the biggest obstacles in the field of robotics nowadays is trying to replicate things that living organisms can compute, yet we do not fully understand how we compute it.

In this case, such an obstacle is balance and walking. When we walk, we are constantly compensating for shift of weight, height of terrain, steepness of terrain, roughness of terrain (or lackthereof). If we trip, we quickly regain balance based on many other factors. However, sometimes we trip and we bust our ***... causing a scraped knee. Imagine if a robot busts his *** while walking down the street. What if he falls on a poodle? I'm digressing from the point a bit now :P

Mechs are really cool, though they are pointless for our society. This is why they have so much trouble getting funding for these projects. This is also why these guys are really wasting their time because they are doing it for the "cool" factor. They keep cutting corners until the result isn't a Mech, but a hunk of junk that looks like a Mech.

These guys are on the forefront of innovation in this department:

http://lucy.vub.ac.be/

When you watch these videos, it'll be alot easier to understand why walking and balance are probably the most difficult things to immitate. Things like gatling guns, jetpacks, etc have already been invented so it's just a matter of time and patience to build the damn thing properly. Having it say things, react to movement, follow voice commands, and more .. have already been done but on smaller scales. Even AI won't be that difficult to setup. There are thousands of geeks that will jump on the opportunity to write a piece of software the progressively learns as it exists (sort of like the A.L.I.C.E. program, but far more advanced and far more useful).

If people can figure out the balancing issue without cutting corners and having true reliability, we could be living in a world like in the movie A.I. in about 40 years.

Although Mechs are pointless (why have legs when you can have wheels or treads? In comparsion to heavy armor, the glass in the ****pit is thin as paper.. why do that?), they still have alot of value to our society. I'm sure when we have the means, we'll end up creating a few Mechs just for ghits and siggles just to prove we can do it.

Otherwise, the only other reason for a biped-like robot is for robot servants (or other "uses" for robots that look like humans ;) ;) ;) ;) ) where they truly immitate a human being. Could be used for security, entertainment and many other things.

Speaking of which, we should be careful too. We might, at some point, create an AI so advanced that it will be able to truly learn (in other words, even learn to learn). Sort of like an infinite loop of knowledge, kind of like what we have. If that occurs we'll end up making robots more efficient and powerful than we are and they will end up destroying us Matrix style :D

[NiSsE]

orginal posted by [MyIS]Spetsnaz
Speaking of which, we should be careful too. We might, at some point, create an AI so advanced that it will be able to truly learn (in other words, even learn to learn). Sort of like an infinite loop of knowledge, kind of like what we have. If that occurs we'll end up making robots more efficient and powerful than we are and they will end up destroying us Matrix style

There is something about it :p

they will end up destroying us Matrix style=or like in Terminator :rolleyes:

[WarGimp]

Spetsnaz']Otherwise, the only other reason for a biped-like robot is for robot servants (or other "uses" for robots that look like humans ;) ;) ;) ;) ) where they truly immitate a human being. Could be used for security, entertainment and many other things.

Oh yeah! Entertainment! How about dancing robots?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6003384164761139089&q=robot+dance&pl=true
Dance little suckers, dance!
Hehe, what blew me away about that vid is that apparently the bots are queing off the music and eachother. They have preprogramed steps, but activate them according to the sounds they are "hearing" and know their positions by "looking" at eachother. Kinda cool really.

Speaking of which, we should be careful too. We might, at some point, create an AI so advanced that it will be able to truly learn (in other words, even learn to learn). Sort of like an infinite loop of knowledge, kind of like what we have. If that occurs we'll end up making robots more efficient and powerful than we are and they will end up destroying us Matrix style :D
Who's to say this would really be a bad thing? Humanity is a perty screwed up biological entity with a finite possible existance. We're HUGELY limited by our organic makeup and short lifespans. If we were to give birth to a non-organic "race" they'd be able to travel to the stars, live in balance with their enviroment, and prolly wouldn't be so remarkably stupid as to pick up our habbit of bumping each other off in the presuit of personal greed.
Maybe that's our actual purpose... to be the transitional species that gives rise the the machine.

There's a thought fer ya ta chew on.
;)

[NiSsE]

That was cool wonder how they can dance in a few years maybe as a real human. :)

[[MyIS]Spetsnaz]

Who's to say this would really be a bad thing?

Have you ever seen the movie Equilibrium? It's one of the best movies ever made. The fight scenes alone make Matrix look like Barnie. If you haven't see this movie, I highly recommend it. It's strongly influenced by 1984, however it's still very unique in its own right.

Organic life is the epitome of the phrase "bitter sweet". One the one hand, we are capable of extraordinary kindess, dedication, and love (not necessarily to other humans -- think Einstein and Beethoven). On the flip side of the coin, we are also capable of the most brutal and inconceivable injustice and hatred towards one another.

It really boils down to how you see the universe.

I believe that there is some sort of equal balance in the universe. We havne't discovered it yet, but I know it's there. A great example of this is simply taking a look around you and analyzing all of the laws that govern our universe. Think of gravity, light, electricity, magnetism, etc as mathematical formulas that are always constant and never change. Our universe consists of "variables" that are plugged into these formulas to make it work. If these variables were off by something like 0.0000000000001, our universe could not exist. If the earth was positioned a little farther from the sun, live wouldn't be possible because it would be tool cold. If it was too close to the sun, life wouldn't be possible because it would be too dry.

All that boils down to is one fundamental truth that I believe in... there's a balance for everything. If we are able to replicate a machine in our image, this machine would have disadvantages of its own that are inherent to -any- form of life in our universe. A simplified set of examples:

- If you're an excellent fighter, you will never be a scholar.
- If you're an excellent scholar, you will never be a fighter.

Of course, there are those that are both scholars and fighters, but what if I extended this list to thousands of possible traits? This is the kind of balance that I see everything. Why aren't there giant insects? What about tiny humans? How come every living organism on this planet that has a heart goes through approximately the same amount of heartbeats in its entire lifetime?

This is why I think robotics is a dangerous thing and shouldn't be taken lightly. It takes half a second to pull a trigger and lodge a bullet in someones face -- that's one life gone in a split second. It's just as easy to create a single algorithm or a single prototype that could quite possibly bring an end to human civilization (think Atom Bomb).

If you really want something to think about, ponder the thought of this ...

If we had the ability to replicate human life, but tweak it in any way that we wanted -- would we give these "inventions" the gift of self awareness? If so, they could pose a very dangerous threat.. right?

What if we didn't though? What if we generated an environment around them to make them conciously believe they understood their surroundings while, in reality, they were test subjects.

If I tell your average joe that there is a distinct possibility that there is a "creator", in the sense that we were scientificaly engineered (not God), average joe would probably scoff at me and tell me I've been watching too many Sci-Fi movies. But is it all that crazy?

No, I'm not on drugs. Never have been. I just that after watching so many documentaries and reading so many books, then following up on that information -- you'll notice that all of these Sci-Fi/Fantasy movies aren't pulling ideas out of their asses. They are simpy cashing in on potential discoveries and theories that are currently being pursued by modern science.

Anyway, robotics is dangerous. We take it too far and civilization could quite possibly crumble right under our feet. :)

[IHateYou]

Spetsnaz']In comparsion to heavy armor, the glass in the ****pit is thin as paper.. why do that?), they still have...

LOL, they beeped out c-o-c-k-pit. What are you supposed to say? Crotchpit?

[PsYcHo.KiLLa]

Or penispit. Oaky, it's dead.

Anyway, I've never seen that second link you posted, WarGimp. Nice find :D.

[WarGimp]

Spetsnaz']Have you ever seen the movie Equilibrium? It's one of the best movies ever made. The fight scenes alone make Matrix look like Barnie. If you haven't see this movie, I highly recommend it. It's strongly influenced by 1984, however it's still very unique in its own right.

Yeah, I saw it. It didn't quite make the same impression on me as it did on you. A buddy of mine has it. Maybe I'll rewatch it.

Ever seen Battlestar Galactica?
http://www.spacecast.com/bsg/images/bios/biopic_no6.jpghttp://www.spacecast.com/bsg/images/bios/biopic_boomer.jpg
Hmm... bring on the robots! :D
Rather more interesting is the plot line that leads you to question... who's right? Humans attempted to enslave Cylons (computers/machines) and the Cylons hit back. Hard. The establised a sociaty of their own with no death, no hate, and no greed. They even managed "perfect" communication where the most radical members of their race still had a voice. Later in the series, the Cylons come to understand that they futzed up. They took on the traits of their parents (humans) when they should have been trying to become the best machines they could be.
Yeah, I'm a fan. :p

More interesting than BSG is Frankenstine. It's the root story of man's fear of his own creations. If you've read the original, you know that the "monster" was only guilty of being innocent and different. It was the Doctor that created it that inflicted the horrors upon it that made it go off the deepend.

Call me "dark", but I believe that is a core element of human nature.

Anyway, robotics is dangerous. We take it too far and civilization could quite possibly crumble right under our feet. :)
You say that like A) it would be a bad thing and B) it hasn't already
:p

I suggest that maybe if we humanity can create a "race" that is supirior to us, why shouldn't we? Why should we not then go nicely and quitely extinct, secure in the knowlage that we've done our bit?

Compelling question, no?

[[MyIS]Spetsnaz]

Not a compelling question, because "quiet extinction" is an oxymoron when it relates to the human race. No one wants to die :)

As I mentioned in that really, really long post above... the nature of our existence is one of the most intriguing questions of all. If we understand that and engineer machines in our image, we will never fathom the implications of doing so.

If your question is, "why not if they're better?", I can only refer back to my previous post where I mentioned balance. If machines are given infinite knowledge and infinite power, they still cannot break the laws of our universe -- thus they will always have disadvantages.

For instance, in a close quarters engagement a robot will be engineered to weight out the probabilities of success of certain maneuvers. Naturally, this excludes luck and 'taking chances'. If the probability of success for flanking left is 5% with the potential to inflict 80% of damage to enemy and the probability of success for flanking right is 60% with the potential to inflict 40% of damage to the enemy... which would the robot choose? Unless it is specifically programmed to take the riskier chance or some other outside influence is at work, the robot will surely take the right flank because the success:damage ratio is very significant.

Human thought is so complex in nature that our choices often seem 'random' or 'risky'. Logical reasoning is strongly influenced by emotion that is imprinted on us over time.

Even if we somehow find a way to manufacture machines that are capable of thought, they would have disadvantages in other areas. I think this type of balance makes life possible and shoudn't be ignored.

[Punisher18]

i saw a vid of some guys that built a mech. It was very slow though and if its foot hit a curb it would have fallen. Was probably the first stages so it wasnt ready to be used yet. Still look sweet though. Looked almost exactly like the silver one except it was variations of green.