Zandog
08-27-2006, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by: Sir. Eden:
This was FeaRog's very big and great reply to the conserns about delaying ET:QW and about its competition BF2142.
It should be noted that companys X & Y do not represent EA/Dice & SD
Originally Posted by Tristan 'Fearog' Williams
mclutter - If you are a petroleum/chemical engineer as you seem to imply then you would know the answer to this. It is a basic management principle and if you studied at any decent institution then it should have been deeply ingrained in your brain: if you rush to meet a deadline by doing overtime then you drastically increase the chances of making mistakes. Sure, you may meet the deadline, but those mistakes will later be exposed - either by a poor performing product, an unreliable product, a product that has non-functional features, or a product that is just plain dangerous. At the end of the day meeting a deadline or extending a deadline is a value judgement - do you sacrifice functionality and run the risk of making mistakes just to meet a deadline, or do you push the deadline back a bit to allow you to take the time to fix all the problems, and make the product as perfect as you can? In some industries/situations this is not an option, which is very unfortunate as it reduces the quality of their products, ****es consumers off, and makes everyone less money at the end of the day.
Now, the case where there is direct competition: Consider the aerospace industry. Companies X & Y might design a plane to meet the same spec. X meets the deadline, but does it by forcing employees to do 80 hour weeks, and desperately hiring a bunch of extras. At the end of the project all of their experienced staff quit because they don't want to do 80 hour weeks. The plane goes into service, but has poor performance, high maintenance costs, and a high accident rate. Eventually they fix it, but after years of recalls and revisions. Company Y misses the deadline by a few months, but they maintain a 40 hour week, and only hire extra staff if they are really perfect for the position. Their plane goes into service with excellent performance, low maintenance costs, and low accident rate - simply because less mistakes were made during the design, less time was spent fixing mistakes, and more time was spent improving important subsystems. Now consider the airlines when they're looking to buy new planes - only a small proportion of the highest consumers (the "hardcore" airlines if you will) will jump on the initial release of a plane, the rest will wait a year or two to see how they pan out. So a few airlines buy plane X and fly the hell out of them in the months before plane Y is released - company X gets a tidy lead at the start there. Then plane Y is released and a few airlines buy them and fly the hell out of them - given the same spec, they'll probably sell equally well for a while. Now, a year or two down the line when the other airlines are looking to expand/upgrade their fleet some they will look at the accumulated performance figures, maintenance costs and accident rates for the two planes to compare. Undoubtedly, they will notice that plane Y is a better performer, and more of those airlines will purchase plane Y. To make matters worse, company X lost all their best staff so the next design they make will suffer even more. So the moral there is: Whilst rushing and crunching to meet a deadline may be beneficial in the short term, it is detrimental in the long term in a competitive environment.
Now that is just the case where they are direct competitors for the exact same market space - if the two plane designs deviated more (eg different range/payload balances) then you'd get more airlines buying either one depending on their own needs/preferences. This is closer to the relationship between 2142 and ETQW - whilst outwardly they both are online, team based, multiplayer FPS games, when you get down to it the gameplay is a drastically different style between the two. BF is open and free-form, which some people prefer, and ET is close, directed, and channeled which other people prefer. Each to their own.
So two big holes in your gripe are these: ETQW is not meant to be a direct competitor to BF2142, so is not competing for the exact same market space, so a delay in release is not as catastrophic as you contend. Second, by delaying the game we get to provide you guys with a far more polished experience, rather than a buggy, unbalanced POS like some games are at release - that will be reflected strongly in reviews and even more strongly on forums, which will affect potential buyers.
Finally, consider this too: Lots of people can only afford to buy a new game every few months. Now, lets say hypothetically that we released at the same time as BF2142. This would mean that a substantial number of people would have to choose which one they'd buy - some would buy our game, some would buy 2142. Chances are they probably would not buy the other one until it was out on budget release. Now - again I must stress, hypothetical here - lets say ETQW was released a few months after 2142. Those people who bought 2142 and have been playing it online for a few months now have their piggy banks full up with cash again, read some reviews (hopefully good ones! /me prays) for our game, and pops out and buys it. Buying one does not equal not buying the other!
Summary: I think you make it out to be a much bigger deal than it really is.
Trust us - we didn't delay to **** you off, or lose sales. We delayed so that we could make the game better, and provide you guys with a better experience at the end of the day. Have a bit of patience, we think you'll like the end result!:)
Originally replying to this post for those who need it.
Originally Posted by mclutter
I agree with what everyone has said.
Here is my main beef. We live in a world with deadlines and when those deadlines are not met there are consequences. For instance, I work in the oil industry and when I do not have my design work in on time the whole project gets delayed. Every company has deadlines and when these deadlines are not kept it trickles down from there. I am only trying to say that there needs to be some accountability here. Lets make a solid date and stick to it. Maybe some overtime is warranted or some new people hired to make it happen. Enough with the "I rather have it done right" crap. I sit here reading through all the different forums on ET:QW and for the most part everyone is giving the ok to spend more time to "get it right". What is really funny is that on all the forums recently regarding BF2 the general population who has played through all the crap patches stood together and demanded beta testing of patches and beta testing of BF2142. Guess what it is now being done. EA has realized that the public is their bread and butter and we now get to test the 1.4 patch for BF2 and test BF2142. With that in mind give the public a beta for ET:QW. These guys have apparently been working on this game for some time now. Lets give some fresh eyes a look, and honestly these guys should be able to isolate the problems and fix them within a reasonable amount of time.Get it done!
I think companies like EA and Activision need to stop the damn politics and get down to business and cater to the consumer cause thats who they are working for.
It should also be noted that this is not an offical responce but just the opinion of one of the developers.
This was FeaRog's very big and great reply to the conserns about delaying ET:QW and about its competition BF2142.
It should be noted that companys X & Y do not represent EA/Dice & SD
Originally Posted by Tristan 'Fearog' Williams
mclutter - If you are a petroleum/chemical engineer as you seem to imply then you would know the answer to this. It is a basic management principle and if you studied at any decent institution then it should have been deeply ingrained in your brain: if you rush to meet a deadline by doing overtime then you drastically increase the chances of making mistakes. Sure, you may meet the deadline, but those mistakes will later be exposed - either by a poor performing product, an unreliable product, a product that has non-functional features, or a product that is just plain dangerous. At the end of the day meeting a deadline or extending a deadline is a value judgement - do you sacrifice functionality and run the risk of making mistakes just to meet a deadline, or do you push the deadline back a bit to allow you to take the time to fix all the problems, and make the product as perfect as you can? In some industries/situations this is not an option, which is very unfortunate as it reduces the quality of their products, ****es consumers off, and makes everyone less money at the end of the day.
Now, the case where there is direct competition: Consider the aerospace industry. Companies X & Y might design a plane to meet the same spec. X meets the deadline, but does it by forcing employees to do 80 hour weeks, and desperately hiring a bunch of extras. At the end of the project all of their experienced staff quit because they don't want to do 80 hour weeks. The plane goes into service, but has poor performance, high maintenance costs, and a high accident rate. Eventually they fix it, but after years of recalls and revisions. Company Y misses the deadline by a few months, but they maintain a 40 hour week, and only hire extra staff if they are really perfect for the position. Their plane goes into service with excellent performance, low maintenance costs, and low accident rate - simply because less mistakes were made during the design, less time was spent fixing mistakes, and more time was spent improving important subsystems. Now consider the airlines when they're looking to buy new planes - only a small proportion of the highest consumers (the "hardcore" airlines if you will) will jump on the initial release of a plane, the rest will wait a year or two to see how they pan out. So a few airlines buy plane X and fly the hell out of them in the months before plane Y is released - company X gets a tidy lead at the start there. Then plane Y is released and a few airlines buy them and fly the hell out of them - given the same spec, they'll probably sell equally well for a while. Now, a year or two down the line when the other airlines are looking to expand/upgrade their fleet some they will look at the accumulated performance figures, maintenance costs and accident rates for the two planes to compare. Undoubtedly, they will notice that plane Y is a better performer, and more of those airlines will purchase plane Y. To make matters worse, company X lost all their best staff so the next design they make will suffer even more. So the moral there is: Whilst rushing and crunching to meet a deadline may be beneficial in the short term, it is detrimental in the long term in a competitive environment.
Now that is just the case where they are direct competitors for the exact same market space - if the two plane designs deviated more (eg different range/payload balances) then you'd get more airlines buying either one depending on their own needs/preferences. This is closer to the relationship between 2142 and ETQW - whilst outwardly they both are online, team based, multiplayer FPS games, when you get down to it the gameplay is a drastically different style between the two. BF is open and free-form, which some people prefer, and ET is close, directed, and channeled which other people prefer. Each to their own.
So two big holes in your gripe are these: ETQW is not meant to be a direct competitor to BF2142, so is not competing for the exact same market space, so a delay in release is not as catastrophic as you contend. Second, by delaying the game we get to provide you guys with a far more polished experience, rather than a buggy, unbalanced POS like some games are at release - that will be reflected strongly in reviews and even more strongly on forums, which will affect potential buyers.
Finally, consider this too: Lots of people can only afford to buy a new game every few months. Now, lets say hypothetically that we released at the same time as BF2142. This would mean that a substantial number of people would have to choose which one they'd buy - some would buy our game, some would buy 2142. Chances are they probably would not buy the other one until it was out on budget release. Now - again I must stress, hypothetical here - lets say ETQW was released a few months after 2142. Those people who bought 2142 and have been playing it online for a few months now have their piggy banks full up with cash again, read some reviews (hopefully good ones! /me prays) for our game, and pops out and buys it. Buying one does not equal not buying the other!
Summary: I think you make it out to be a much bigger deal than it really is.
Trust us - we didn't delay to **** you off, or lose sales. We delayed so that we could make the game better, and provide you guys with a better experience at the end of the day. Have a bit of patience, we think you'll like the end result!:)
Originally replying to this post for those who need it.
Originally Posted by mclutter
I agree with what everyone has said.
Here is my main beef. We live in a world with deadlines and when those deadlines are not met there are consequences. For instance, I work in the oil industry and when I do not have my design work in on time the whole project gets delayed. Every company has deadlines and when these deadlines are not kept it trickles down from there. I am only trying to say that there needs to be some accountability here. Lets make a solid date and stick to it. Maybe some overtime is warranted or some new people hired to make it happen. Enough with the "I rather have it done right" crap. I sit here reading through all the different forums on ET:QW and for the most part everyone is giving the ok to spend more time to "get it right". What is really funny is that on all the forums recently regarding BF2 the general population who has played through all the crap patches stood together and demanded beta testing of patches and beta testing of BF2142. Guess what it is now being done. EA has realized that the public is their bread and butter and we now get to test the 1.4 patch for BF2 and test BF2142. With that in mind give the public a beta for ET:QW. These guys have apparently been working on this game for some time now. Lets give some fresh eyes a look, and honestly these guys should be able to isolate the problems and fix them within a reasonable amount of time.Get it done!
I think companies like EA and Activision need to stop the damn politics and get down to business and cater to the consumer cause thats who they are working for.
It should also be noted that this is not an offical responce but just the opinion of one of the developers.