Realism? Or Realistic

[Zuke`]

Alright,
I've played every release (except for 0.7), and I must get out some of my frustration. I bought Battlefield 2 to play, and I download mods for improved game play. Myself, like my fellow clan mates, have long enjoyed the Project Reality series. However, after reading the wiki, and 0.6 experience, some things have just gone too far.

So let's say me and my clan wants to form a sniper team, relaying information to the team in an organized fashion. Well, we can't do that because somebody who loaded faster than us managed to grab the sniper kit, becoming a lone wolf sniper, and hardly contributing to the team.

Another scenario. Let's say my clan (focuses on sniping/air) wants to provide tactical air to ground support, and actually communicate with ground units for the enhanced game play experience. Well, we can't, because another player on the team wants to "test out the jets".

Now, I wouldn't mind a player being a lone wolf as a particular kit/using a particular vehicle, as long as me and my clan were offered the opportunity as well. Finding 2 hours to play a single match, with probably only about 3 jet spawns, is frankly a waste of a game. Yes, we could wait for the jet, but then what use are we to the team? None.

Response: Well, you'll get it eventually, or respawn when it's about to spawn.

My Response: First of all, if I chose to respawn when a jet was about to, I would have to have been counting the time to the spawn - which is crazy. Also, by the time I respawn (90 seconds later) somebody else has taken the jet. And eventually getting it doesn't cut it, we want to provide support to the team, and the team I'm sure would love support NOW rather than later.

Response: Let other people have a turn, or go back to Vanilla.

Alright, I will if that's all you're going to say. I love(d) Project Reality, as it gave me a chance to actually feel useful in the scheme of things. Now, the respawn times are heightened to such a point that playing a particular gamestyle is out of the question. Shooting for total reality will get you nowhere, making things more realistic is the way to go.

Realism = no respawns, 1 spawn per vehicle (which will soon be in 0.8!).

Realistic = increased damage, more realistic physics, etc.

Now, I am downloading - for a total of about 7 (2 now, thanks to a helpful lad in another thread) hours - the new mod - which I really wish could have come as an incremental.

There's a reason you don't find any games with the realism Project Reality is aiming for, it just doesn't suit the requirements for a good, PLAYABLE game. ArmA is very realistic, and it manages to keep the sense of realism without having 20 minute spawn times.

That is all. I don't mean to flame, I am amazed at what the dev team has accomplished. I just am very frustrated with the current direction of the mod.

[Sike]

totally aggreed

[Trevortt]

Lets not nerf another mod.

[Zuke`]

Haha, after our Xfire convo... my new moto for PR:

Download a bigger file/Play Less. ;)

*BTW Trevor, I have every right to my opinions. I have played with a few of the members of Project Reality, and they are great guys, don't get me wrong.... But I just don't like where the mod is heading*

[Jumintiger]

Totally agreed. Realism is good, but I don't like it when it inhibits gameplay.

Now, vanilla BF2 is "gameplay to the extreme" where it's just bunny hopping and nade spamming. I don't like that either.

Bottom line: People buy games/download mods to play a game. It may be more arcadish, it may be more realisic, but what they don't spend money on is being able to live real life in their "game", if you get my drift.

[Zuke`]

And that's exactly what I think it is. It's becoming a focus on realism to the point that it detracts from game play.

It would have been great to have squad leaders who can designate targets with the spotter (can't remember the name), but it has to go through the commander - assuming the commander does his job.

That's not my biggest gripe (JET RESPAWN TIMES SCARE ME), but it's just one of those things that focuses on realism - chain of command - that if one section in that chain isn't properly functioning, it inhibits the functionality of the rest of the chain. Increased realism tends to decrease game play "approval" (best word I could think of)

*Also, aren't squad leaders - in real life - able to be redirected to direct communication with air units?

[Trevortt]

Haha, after our Xfire convo... my new moto for PR:

Download a bigger file/Play Less. ;)

*BTW Trevor, I have every right to my opinions. I have played with a few of the members of Project Reality, and they are great guys, don't get me wrong.... But I just don't like where the mod is heading*

Get down from your high horse, i did not say you did not have the right. Read my post again.

[Zuke`]

My high horse? Well, now I see you said "let's not nerf another mod", I thought you said "let's not flame another mod".

Anyways, my apologies for that. However, where did you get this "high horse" logic, I in no way bragged about myself/set myself on a podium.

Back on topic please :)

[Trevortt]

My high horse? Well, now I see you said "let's not nerf another mod", I thought you said "let's not flame another mod".

Anyways, my apologies for that. However, where did you get this "high horse" logic, I in no way bragged about myself/set myself on a podium.

Back on topic please :)

The definition of "high horse" means you are getting high rate ie calm down.

[Zuke`]

I always thought it was something different... hmm, learn something new everday.

To properly respond to your first post then: I do not believe that altering the mod to increase playability is considered "nerfing" rather "improving" the mod. Unlike Battlefield 2, I am not asking for simply balance changes, such as decreasing gun damage on blackhawks.

I'd love to fully enjoy Project Reality, but the direction of the mod continues to hinder my ability to do so.

[gazzthompson]

tbh ur gunna hate this and probably expecting it, but don't play it. i dont mean that in a bad way, but if u dont like a mod dont play it


So let's say me and my clan wants to form a sniper team, relaying information to the team in an organized fashion. Well, we can't do that because somebody who loaded faster than us managed to grab the sniper kit, becoming a lone wolf sniper, and hardly contributing to the team.

how can they change this though ? make it so every one can spawn as sniper ?? no thanks.


Another scenario. Let's say my clan (focuses on sniping/air) wants to provide tactical air to ground support, and actually communicate with ground units for the enhanced game play experience. Well, we can't, because another player on the team wants to "test out the jets".

again, make it have 32 jets on each team so every 1 can fly ? theres nothing they can mod against this and the sniper problem. you can mod a game but cant mod the players.

Now, I wouldn't mind a player being a lone wolf as a particular kit/using a particular vehicle, as long as me and my clan were offered the opportunity as well. Finding 2 hours to play a single match, with probably only about 3 jet spawns, is frankly a waste of a game. Yes, we could wait for the jet, but then what use are we to the team? None.

same thing on points 1 and 2 how can they give ur clan the opportunity without every 1 getting in planes and flying?

My Response: First of all, if I chose to respawn when a jet was about to, I would have to have been counting the time to the spawn - which is crazy. Also, by the time I respawn (90 seconds later) somebody else has taken the jet. And eventually getting it doesn't cut it, we want to provide support to the team, and the team I'm sure would love support NOW rather than later.

the respawn on the jets in 20mins IIRC so by time u spawn it wont be gone.


There's a reason you don't find any games with the realism Project Reality is aiming for, it just doesn't suit the requirements for a good, PLAYABLE game. ArmA is very realistic, and it manages to keep the sense of realism without having 20 minute spawn times.

Project reality isnt made for the masses, its aims to be as realistic as the bf2 engine will allow (important!) also, PR wishes it could get to the realism of ArmA.


*Also, aren't squad leaders - in real life - able to be redirected to direct communication with air units?

yes but its not possible with the bf2 engine.

tbh, ur gunna hate .7 if u didn't like .6, .7 is going to turn away alot of players with its steap leaning curve and unforgiving gameplay

[Zuke`]

It's actually not that difficult (playing right now, waiting for my jet)

It's fun once you get a jet, but the game doesn't offer a wide variety of gameplay, like I feel it should.

And, as you said, if PR is going for ArmA realism, then tone down the spawn times.

20 minutes, I get your point. 5-10 minutes still gets the same job done, with less frustration. There's a difference between realistic, and excessive.

[waaah_wah]

Ffs dont waitr for jets, you dont need one to be useful!

[ConscriptVirus]

0.7 is a lot better

i think you get one sniper kit per squad instead of per team.

the respawn times are ridiculous too.

and i agree in that they went a bit far with the realism. i hate not being able to spot enemies anymore but it just encourages usage of VOIP.

[Sir. Tasty]

So let's say me and my clan wants to form a sniper team, relaying information to the team in an organized fashion. Well, we can't do that because somebody who loaded faster than us managed to grab the sniper kit, becoming a lone wolf sniper, and hardly contributing to the team.

Another scenario. Let's say my clan (focuses on sniping/air) wants to provide tactical air to ground support, and actually communicate with ground units for the enhanced game play experience. Well, we can't, because another player on the team wants to "test out the jets".



What gives you the rite to have a plane/gun over any other player? for all you know they may be in a ts with other players using teamwork. I dislike how people constantly complain about 'noobs' taking the chopper or getting the sniper kit first, its as fair as it gets.

[Sike]

i wish they made a jet training map for Singleplayer,

[gazzthompson]

Sike3000;1818553']i wish they made a jet training map for Singleplayer,

there are a few community made ones. if not make a local server. thats what i do to train for helis.


and Aerialz the spawn time is to highlight the fact that planes and other assets are valuable to the team and not to waste them. and seems you are wating alot and getting shot down or crashing alot.

i dont fly planes or blackhawks, you know why ? i crash. so i dont waste the teams assets. yea some guy will spawn and think hey, thats a expensive taxi, but hopefully it will go to a dedicated squad and some 1 whos good at flying.

[Jumintiger]

What gives you the rite to have a plane/gun over any other player? for all you know they may be in a ts with other players using teamwork. I dislike how people constantly complain about 'noobs' taking the chopper or getting the sniper kit first, its as fair as it gets.

Then quick! Let's assign the sniper kit to whoever has the highest score so far in the round. Or the highest rank.

For all you know, he's planning to be a smacktard and just slaughter your own team.

[Zuke`]

What gives you the rite to have a plane/gun over any other player? for all you know they may be in a ts with other players using teamwork. I dislike how people constantly complain about 'noobs' taking the chopper or getting the sniper kit first, its as fair as it gets.

Did I ever call them a noob? I posted my thread in a very non-hateful fashion, and I continue to get ignorant, and generic responses that could be posted without even reading my thread like yours.

I know that they are useless, because, look:

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i32/stalker2200/screen000.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i32/stalker2200/screen001.jpg

Another player was laser targeting the runway...

*Also, note the decrease in graphics from the first pic to the second. I was running high in the first pic (which I do in vanilla) where I'm used to getting a solid 60 fps, but the lag was unbearable in PR, so I had to lower my graphics.

Anymore remarks?

[Noriega]

i dont fly planes or blackhawks, you know why ? i crash

Yeah same...lol Either lag or connection problems, which i never get unless im flying something

[Zuke`]

Yeah same...lol Either lag or connection problems, which i never get unless im flying something

Sadly, some people don't offer the same curtosy. View my pics above, both occured within 5 minutes of eachother.

[youm0nt]

After a week or two, all the noobs will either leave or continue to play and get better.

[waaah_wah]

^^Will probably take a little longer;)

[gazzthompson]

*Also, note the decrease in graphics from the first pic to the second. I was running high in the first pic (which I do in vanilla) where I'm used to getting a solid 60 fps, but the lag was unbearable in PR, so I had to lower my graphics.

Anymore remarks?

PR is alot more of a stress on the system than bf2, because of the bigger maps and bigger view distance to name some reason.

also, yes, some "noobs" or what ever you want to call them see a Apache or heli and thing :yay: ill fly that without knowing whats going on, but how do u suppose they fix it? offer every 1 the chance to be pilot ?? 32 helis ? how?

give it time, at the start of a new release alot of newer players come who dont know whats going on, they will learn or leave.

[Sir. Tasty]

Then quick! Let's assign the sniper kit to whoever has the highest score so far in the round. Or the highest rank.

For all you know, he's planning to be a smacktard and just slaughter your own team.

Where did i ever say anything about socre/rank coming into this?

Well if i join a server and find a helo and there is already somone going for it with a pilot kit, i will give him the benefit of the doubt and let him fly, as you put it for all i know he could just fly around and tk, but hell im not going to be some ******* that just tk's him on the spot for the chopper or any of that. Fiar enuff if he cant fly, and makes stupid mistakes i will give him an earfull, but i still like to give people the benefit of the doubt first before i start saying im the best pilot/sniper w/e.

[Zuke`]

PR is alot more of a stress on the system than bf2, because of the bigger maps and bigger view distance to name some reason.

also, yes, some "noobs" or what ever you want to call them see a Apache or heli and thing :yay: ill fly that without knowing whats going on, but how do u suppose they fix it? offer every 1 the chance to be pilot ?? 32 helis ? how?

give it time, at the start of a new release alot of newer players come who dont know whats going on, they will learn or leave.

I was arguing against one of your points, not pursuing my main point, which you and Tasty have managed to stray away from.

Make the game more realistic, and not solely based on true realism.

[gazzthompson]

Make the game more realistic, and not solely based on true realism.

its not solely based on true realism, the bf2 engine restricts that ALOT

[I am RKO]

Yeah same...lol Either lag or connection problems, which i never get unless im flying something

Actually you never fly, cus your usually in my helicopter or jet.

Look mate, as far as Project Reality is concerned, its not based around jets like say Wake Island is. The emphasis of the modification is on realistic infantry combat, not flying around bombing people. I know you're probally really into flying and doing loop the loop, but its not the mod for you.

The Developers put Jets in because people do like to fly them, and they are a part of the war in general, but, the mod in my opinion focuses on Teamwork within Infantry combat, whether its a squad or someone driving a transport of people.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but thats how i percieve the mod, and i play the mod for that awesome infantry combat where everyone aids each other.

You wanna fly around all day? go play on a TV2 Wake Server.

The spawn times, are a little harsh but they're not client specific, meaning its up to the server to change them, at least i'm pretty sure thats the case.

People whine about realism. They want games to feel real, with real graphics and real warfare but you get people moaning, about getting killed with a few bullets. Make your mind up, because there are no respawns in RL.

[waaah_wah]

^^I dont think Pola is a jet whore, or is whining about too much realism... AFAIK, hes a BSS tester

[Zuke`]

My point is not the fact that I want to fly.

My point is that 75% of the time, somebody uses a vehicle in a NON-REALISM way, when I, or another teammate, could be using it in a way that emphasizes the qualities Project Reality aims for!

its not solely based on true realism, the bf2 engine restricts that ALOT

I've also heard enough about the engine (I'm a modder myself). You obviously can't come up with a true argument to my points, so stop posting things that sidetrack away from the original topic. I understand that they can't achieve true realism, but it seems like they are trying to.

[JustMe0171]

its not solely based on true realism, the bf2 engine restricts that ALOT

I dont speak for the PR people, but here's my 2 cents, gotta have balance, i think they try to do as much "realism" as possible, but are limited cause it is a game & it is us sitting lookin thru a screen with no periffreal vision and to keep bordem down ya gotta have respawns. if ya want no respawns then AA is ur game.
but if they got things as in real life it would take weeks or maybe months to plan a good battle & get all troops in position & ready.

so why poke at them about "this aint realism" that aint realism" sh@t they do the best they can.

why not if ya dont like it, say so & go find another game, thats what i do when i try out a mod.:nod:

[gazzthompson]

My point is not the fact that I want to fly.
My point is that 75% of the time, somebody uses a vehicle in a NON-REALISM way, when I, or another teammate, could be using it in a way that emphasizes the qualities Project Reality aims for!

what do u want the modders to do about it ? like i said, they can mod a game, but not the players. how do people know you are going to use it properly ? they might be thinking the same as you.

I've also heard enough about the engine (I'm a modder myself). You obviously can't come up with a true argument to my points, so stop posting things that sidetrack away from the original topic. I understand that they can't achieve true realism, but it seems like they are trying to.

i have answered every one of your points. and it seems like they are aiming for realism? where ever did u get that idea from...... :rolleyes:(hint: project reality)

[Zuke`]

i have answered every one of your points. and it seems like they are aiming for realism? where ever did u get that idea from...... :rolleyes:(hint: project reality)

Hah, funny.. read the thread title. :)

You just said they are aiming for realism, and I discussed the difference between realism, reality and gameplay. You then finished it off by pointing out the mod title.

/win

*And to JustMe, if that type of response was given to every critic, this world would be nowhere. They go for the best, yes, but if people have opinions - like mine - they should at least hear them.

[gazzthompson]

all that i got from this thread was a whine about you not being able to snipe and fly all the time. i then answered all your points. and PR is aiming for realism, and you said about that not making good gameplay, well it might not to you but it dose to others...

dont like the mod? dont play.

[JustMe0171]

*And to JustMe, if that type of response was given to every critic, this world would be nowhere. They go for the best, yes, but if people have opinions - like mine - they should at least hear them.

was more of a bashing instead of u commenting dude, if u read up i said "say u dont like it"......

i really didnt mean to sound like a azz i just plain sometimes. :nod:

[waaah_wah]

Okay WTF is the problem here exactly? I played a couple rounds on PR today and i loved it. I was a SL in a squad where 2 ppl had VOIP, i was driving a Scimitar with a friend of mine and since ppl didnt have VOIP i kinda didnt bother with setting up a rally. When i dies 15 min later, i got the Officer kit, set a move marker and told ppl to move there for a rally, note that the whole squad was spread out as hell and everyone was doing their own little thing. In 5 minutes we managed to regroup and make a rally. After that the WHOLE SQUAD was folowing me. It took 5 min to go from a completely unorganized squad, to a squad where everyone were folowing orders. In a public server. The no SL spawn didnt bother me at all actually since you can set up a rally and use it to regroup on. While we were running we were setting up a new rally for every 100 or so meters so we didnt have to walk to far. We managed to stay organized for over 40 minutes and we lost our rally 3-4 times. All you have to do is keep 2 SM's alive. When someone died and we didnt have a rally i asked him not to spawn and set up a quick rally so he could spawn. After 40 or so min, we lost our rally and the whole squad got killed.

We respawned at the main, i took a jeep (only room for 3 ppl) and drove off with 2 of my SM's to a place to set up a rally, after making a rally i told them to start walking towards a map grid so we could set up a new rally. I picked up the rest of my squad waiting for me at the main, drove them back to the new rally spot, set up the rally and VOILA, in 5 min we managed to regroup and set up a new rally pretty close to the enemy base we were going to attack.

This was on Fools Road wich is a pretty big map, with a squad of 5-6 ppl where only 2-3(including myself) had VOIP

Also, PR is a FREE MOD. You didnt pay for it, no one is forcing you to play it. If you like any other mods or even vanilla better then leave PR. PR was never intended for the masses, DEV's didnt try to make a mod wich would be fun to all and really popular. They made a mod they would like to play themselves and are sharing it with everybody elce. If you dont like it, you dont have to play it. Simple as that

[I am RKO]

Waaah, thats an epic story.

Liker du deg her?

[waaah_wah]

Waaah, thats an epic story.

Liker du deg her?

Javisst

[I am RKO]

Jeg prater ikke Norsk. Jeg er ei fitte i et tau, Polka er min mester. Jeg suger han. lolol

[Noriega]

Det er sant.
lol

[waaah_wah]

Hahahaha:D:D:D Nice one;) A tip to you my friend: Dont ask Polka to translate ANYTHING for you...

[Noriega]

Sush! Dont tell him lol