People WANT bad commanders.

[Shurikane]

I need to expand on this idea.

This is the proof that the human race rewards stupidity and punishes honest-to-goodness effort.

Suez Canal Conquest. I'm on EU side. The commander's fighting along with us and trying to give intel at the same time, but he's doing too much of the former, and not enough of the latter.

Result: we lose our main base six times and nobody ever saw it coming. It's the commander's job to alert of where the enemy is, and he failed at this. Hardcore.

As the round ends, I let the commander know, in hardly minced words, that his performance was less than stellar.

His reply: "well, we did win."

Stop right there.

Stop right there.

You are not God. You are not playing a RTS where only your decisions have an effect. You think the entire team is riding on your shoulders and that you are the most important man in the match. False. A good soldier can contribute a whole lot more than you. The three stars, of which I was silver, we managed to demolish the enemy all on our own without intel. Had it been not for us, your team would've gotten capped out in five minutes, tops. But you don't see that. You won the match, so you automatically assume it's because your commanding was perfect. You are a complete idiot.

Next round, I get another commander. This time, we're in business. Dude takes shelter into a tank at the main base to save it. He spots the enemies. He gives UAVs all the time. He lets me know supplies are ready for my walker. I tell him via teamchat to get a mike and enable VoIP - if he does this, he'll be an awesome and reliable guy to have around.

MUTINY CALL

That's right. You heard me. My team is trying to mutiny a perfectly good commander.

11 votes needed. 8 PEOPLE VOTED YES.

For those of you who were still wondering why no one ever wants to be commander in even the most dire of situations, it's because of this. Commanders are masochists. Commanders know they'll get mutinied on sight if they do anything right. Battlefield has created a culture of useless point farmers who suck too much at the game to earn their score by themselves, so they take up commanding in order to leech points off the rest of us. And that's exactly what everyone else wants. Because they think that commander who spot and give supplies are idiots. Instead of thanking him for dropping an orb-strike on an enemy APC, they instead rush in with demopacks in hand to score a point and then punish the commander for the teamkill.

Next time you click the apply button, ask yourself the following question:

Do you really deserve to torture yourself that much?

[RichardDawkins]

i suck off good commanders, awesome. play on a server without callvotes or mutinies... win win

[hooahguy]

i suck off good commanders, awesome. play on a server without callvotes or mutinies... win win
but then u get sucky commanders....
ya, i deal with this too.... whenever i command, and i am voted off by some other guy who thinks he can do better, usually he is fighting and not giving intel or orbitals, while we suffer horribly..... i always evade the enemy (when EU- i dont have to evade when im PAC) and throw up UAVs and orbitals, as well as give supplies- NOT only when people request it! and i spot- a ton- i am always looking for enemy snipers, which is very valuable... i wish others could do the same...

[Bradley]

Yeah I get mutinies all the time. There's alot of d*** a$$****s out there.... tssssk...

[ZinZ]

I could care less really if the commanders bad, as long as he doesn't spam me with orders or get all fussy over VoIP I'm fine with him. It's nice when they at least UAV, so sometimes I just ask for that and if its not some AFK noob I get it. Getting them to spot the last guy is rather hard though.

[FURRY BIRD]

When I take command, I take pride in my job.:salute: I command first and if I can snipe to tip the balance in our favor then I will. I command first by dropping more supply boxes than UPS and FED EX combined. I do not send snipers to cap a silo, as if he is obviously sniping than why send a vulnerable asset to get killed? I try to asses the risk factor before I send someone in. I provide sat tracks and UAV's continuously.

[Non-Gypsy]

a little off topic....but i stopped being a SL because of commanders and constantly making new orders. theres never a time when i hit page up and didnt die as a result x.x

the OP does make sense to me since i only see people in commander for 2x pts or its an empty position.

[FURRY BIRD]

a little off topic....but i stopped being a SL because of commanders and constantly making new orders. theres never a time when i hit page up and didnt die as a result x.x

the OP does make sense to me since i only see people in commander for 2x pts or its an empty position.

I play both commander or squad leader when I feel like going out and killing something.

[flanker1121]

a little off topic....but i stopped being a SL because of commanders and constantly making new orders. theres never a time when i hit page up and didnt die as a result x.x

Agreed - There's nothing I hate more than having a squad full of point-hungry brigadier generals who are constantly spamming 'Orders, Sir?'. I know full well that when I go to set an order I'll get someone run round the corner in front of me, so I let myself get killed while kicking them from the squad instead :laugh:

[Shurikane]

Agreed - There's nothing I hate more than having a squad full of point-hungry brigadier generals who are constantly spamming 'Orders, Sir?'. I know full well that when I go to set an order I'll get someone run round the corner in front of me, so I let myself get killed while kicking them from the squad instead :laugh:

Order are proof to me that the SL actually knows how to do his job properly and realizes he's got people to direct to a certain point. Otherwise every member of the squad is spread out all over the map and gets nothing done. When I look at a squad on the scoreboard to assess its quality, I look at the SL success point count. The higher it is, the more likely those guys have acted on orders and gotten stuff done. And if I issue an order to a squad and the guy refuses or times-out on it, I want him to have the decency to explain why.

I don't know where exactly you choose to take cover to issue your orders, but the times I've been shot at while placing one have been very, very, very few and far in-between. It doesn't take a genius to point towards an icon on the 3D map and issue an order. Hell, once you get the hang of it, you can go it in a snap while in a FAV and having no target reticle to guide yourself upon.

[Sir. AAK625]

Battlefield has created a culture of useless point farmers who suck too much at the game to earn their score by themselves, so they take up commanding in order to leech points off the rest of us. And that's exactly what everyone else wants. Because they think that commander who spot and give supplies are idiots. Instead of thanking him for dropping an orb-strike on an enemy APC, they instead rush in with demopacks in hand to score a point and then punish the commander for the teamkill.

YES! YES! YES! That describes this community full of retards entirely and those ridiculous statistic signatures perpetuate that garbage.

Excellent post Shurikane. You slam dunked it. :salute:

[Talbot]

I think whats worse is the fact that the more experienced players continually and without fail join the winning team... on every server it seems one team is full of totally inexperienced and retarded players while the other is full of BG's and uber vehicle whores.

If you've put 50 - 100 days worth of play into this game (thats alot as far as I'm concerned) you're obviously going to be better, practise makes perfect no matter how retarded you are in the real world or how much you suck at sports.

So... give a little thought to that poor newbie you just shot in the back as he spawned.

[Shurikane]

More often than not, winners remain in the game, while losers quit en masse. That means the match that follows is even more of a massacre.

The reality is that it takes very few to actually win a game. Put up a good squad of as few as four people together, and they can wipe out the entire map on their own with disconcerting ease. Most people who play the game are just so amazingly bad at it that it doesn't take much to become a killing machine. There are three guys I team up with sometimes - they've all got a mike and we give precise info to each other. Unless the opposing team has a similar squad, we completely destroy everything in our path like they were a bunch of miserable ants.

But then, you see what the n00bs do.

True story:

I'm in the middle of a Suez Canal Conquest game, EU side. I'm in a battlewalker and am preparing to sneak up on an enemy tank and APC taking potshots at the Oil Fields (AKA, silo 1 in Titan mode.) In the distance, I see a second tank coming up.

I change my mind and prepare to retreat... And lose connection to the EA master server.

I log back in and rejoin the same game.

I see the two tanks and APC still firing away at the Oil Fields. The battlewalker is a mere twenty feet away from them.

Unmanned.

It's no wonder the PAC lost the game by a humiliating margin.

[Talbot]

More often than not, winners remain in the game, while losers quit en masse. That means the match that follows is even more of a massacre.

The reality is that it takes very few to actually win a game. Put up a good squad of as few as four people together, and they can wipe out the entire map on their own with disconcerting ease. Most people who play the game are just so amazingly bad at it that it doesn't take much to become a killing machine. There are three guys I team up with sometimes - they've all got a mike and we give precise info to each other. Unless the opposing team has a similar squad, we completely destroy everything in our path like they were a bunch of miserable ants.


Such apparitions appear once in a blue moon for a puby like me. I get by on my own though, most of the time any squad I try and 'work with' is a total hinderance.

[whiteguy16]

one of the funny things about mutinies is that when a commander gets kicked from his position, nobody commands to take the old commander's place. even the person who started the vote doesn't command.:shakehead:

[FURRY BIRD]

I look at it this way, I do my best, play by the server rules , have fun, some one is always going to hate something you do.

[jake___]

I think its time you gave TF2 a try.

I find I can't play BF2142 without also playing TF2 (although I play TF2 by itselft).

Its quite the relaxing game. No point-whores. Just fun. :D

[Shurikane]

TF2

You mean Let's All Spawn Engineer And Defend Forever?

No thanks. I got tired of being the only person on offense.

[FURRY BIRD]

That is why I just play for fun and don't expect anything.

[Fingulfin]

Instead of thanking him for dropping an orb-strike on an enemy APC, they instead rush in with demopacks in hand to score a point and then punish the commander for the teamkill.
FYI, you can't punish for Orbital Strike TKs. The commander does NOT lose points for team damage and does not get accounted for TKs because of Orbitals...

On topic... I think you people know about my stances on the general 2142 player base :rolleyes: If my team has a commander, I won't mutiny him (unless he is AFK or doing a horrible job), however I won't trust him to do his job either.

A simple fact about Votes in 2142; they NEVER work. The only time I have seen kick votes actually have effect is on Knife only servers :dead: I have seen a demotion from commander ~3 times, regardless of how good/bad a job he was doing.

What I think "people" want in a commander is someone who silently goes about utilizing his assets... People do NOT want you to spot things out using the SAT Track ("Shut up, we know there are infantry infiltrating our bases!") and they DON'T want you issuing orders (I can issue my own orders, thank you very much). People DO want supplies/UAVs/Orbitals on enemies though...

IMO, commanding is the worst of all worlds. Your team expects you to "do your job", but doesn't want you to "do your job" at the same time... Its torture, but I will suffer through it for one of two (or both) reasons:
1: For the win!
2: 4 t3h Ribbinz.

[FURRY BIRD]

FYI, you can't punish for Orbital Strike TKs. The commander does NOT lose points for team damage and does not get accounted for TKs because of Orbitals...

On topic... I think you people know about my stances on the general 2142 player base :rolleyes: If my team has a commander, I won't mutiny him (unless he is AFK or doing a horrible job), however I won't trust him to do his job either.

A simple fact about Votes in 2142; they NEVER work. The only time I have seen kick votes actually have effect is on Knife only servers :dead: I have seen a demotion from commander ~3 times, regardless of how good/bad a job he was doing.

What I think "people" want in a commander is someone who silently goes about utilizing his assets... People do NOT want you to spot things out using the SAT Track ("Shut up, we know there are infantry infiltrating our bases!") and they DON'T want you issuing orders (I can issue my own orders, thank you very much). People DO want supplies/UAVs/Orbitals on enemies though...

IMO, commanding is the worst of all worlds. Your team expects you to "do your job", but doesn't want you to "do your job" at the same time... Its torture, but I will suffer through it for one of two (or both) reasons:
1: For the win!
2: 4 t3h Ribbinz.




Like I said earlier, no matter what you do , you will piss some one off.

[flanker1121]

Order are proof to me that the SL actually knows how to do his job properly and realizes he's got people to direct to a certain point.

Perhaps I didn't word that very well :p Don't get me wrong - when playing with clan members in a squad, I always make well thought out decisions for the good of the team. I still prefer to do this in teamspeak however, as we're a competitive clan and try to mimick match environments as much as we can.

I still don't find the orders system to be particularly useful on maps such as CG, as it's a linear map, and any experienced player should be able, with a small degree of intelligence, to work out where the SL is going. I'll happily spam 'follow me' through the commo rose until people get the picture, and it generally works a treat.

I appreciate what you say about an SL giving orders suggesting good things about his leading ability, though when squad leading i'm generally playing with people I know, thus am talking to, and rendering the order system obsolete. There's no substitute for verbal communication!


Anyhow, to get back to topic: I entirely agree with fingulfin about votes never having any effect - you'll not get demoted from commander if there are any more than 5 people on your team, and decent players rarely initiate votes anyway.

[Chris--My--azz]

:blabla:


http://www.columbia.edu/~ajc57/stop_repost.jpg

[SeanNao]

The Commander usually gives up a lot. ESPECIALLY if they are forced to combat command for a bad team that didn't want to jump in the Commander's seat.

And, when I mutiny vote. It's usually against someone who is combat commanding while at the same time not deploying valuable resources. It's really easy to combat command. The refresh times on your assets take so long and you'll often be in situations where people aren't trying to sneak around. Usually, you will need to combat command eventually because when people DO start sneaking around, it's usually very difficult to convince people to spawn in the rear, sacrifice points, so that the team wins.

I always make sure to tell people THANK YOU, and WHY I am thanking them. "Because you prevented enemies from backdooring us. You're preserving our defense line. You guys rock. Thank you."

But on the other hand, I'm mean enough to call people (Check server rules for swearing rules) "Explitive"ing Scrubs, get in squads you mother-"Explitiveing" Scrubs. Why aren't you "explitive"-ers reviving eachother.

So I'm combat commanding and rezzing people left and right just to keep our ticket count competitive while at the same time dropping artillery between the people just to keep people out of combat.

[hooahguy]

ur having trouble with being commander? IM having trouble being commander!
lol.
ya, its so irritating when im the top guy of the team (i have 37 kills and the rest have 8-13 kills) and no one took up commander- i would have taken it up, but i was too busy beeing 1337 compared to the others.

[Field]

just play as commander and fight at the same time, you dont get as many points but you can get more kills than you would normally cause you kill a few people with orbitals and you use UAVs wher you want so you know where enemies are more often

[hooahguy]

i tried that once.... but they kicked me for being a fighting commander, so i told them "so why arent you commander, you hotshot?!"

[Shurikane]

Most likely because a fighting commander can't keep an eye on his troops. It's virtually impossible for a commander to command and fight at the same time. There is no way in hell the CO can join the frontlines under normal pub conditions. If you're with a bunch of miked and very competent people - or in a clan scrim, you can afford to do that, but most teams require you to play nanny on them so that they don't run headfirst into an ambush the size of Russia. The most the CO should do is get into a Titan gun to flak a silo under attack, or sit near the rearmost flag to guard it and buy his team some time while reinforcements arrive. There's a whole lot of things you can do, command-wise, while your assets are recharging. Like spot-checks. Almost nobody spot-checks. If I arrive near a flag, and the UAV is active elsewhere, I'd like to know if the point is clear, thank you very much. The only time a commander should get on the ground and start running all over the place is near the end of a neck-to-neck Titan match where one silo cap may end the game.

There's also a bunch of servers that forbid fighting commanders and don't want to see him get out of his base at all. Basically, they're saying "You're all too stupid to know when to command and when to fight, so we've had to make a law for you." Honestly, they're in their full right to do that. Those who don't have such a rule get gunship commanders 24/7. When someone doesn't do his job, I've taken a habit of calling mutiny on him as often as I can until it's either successful or he gets fed up and leaves.

[Fingulfin]

I fight when I command, but never on the front lines (unless its Titan). On titan mode, I normally find a central location (but one thats not close to any flag) and use the SAAW while my assets are recharging. On conquest, I normally try to steal an enemy vehicle (such as a valuable FAV on Gibraltar) and then bring it to a rear base and defend the base using said vehicle.

Your troops DON'T need babysitting, they need assets deployed. Even if you try to babysit them, all it will do is piss them off... A clan scrim is when it is acceptable to try and direct your squads, because your troops will listen to you.

[Field]

yeah clan matches you get so much spot checking its annoying

[the_Mr.Ree]

Yeah I get mutinies all the time. There's alot of d*** a$$****s out there.... tssssk...
I know how you feel. Once, someone tried to mutiny me for DENYING HIS UAV REQUEST. :jawdrop: Luckily, the vote failed miserably after i called him on this. :D

[Fingulfin]

Did this thread need to be bumped :|:

PS: I thought we already established that votes of any kind RARELY ever succeed.

[Sir. AAK625]

:locked:

[Amaranthuse]

Like many other games with a commanding figure. People get annoyed at the tactically correct orders and hate the sound of "Strike this position" or "Defend this position" or "We need more people on the ground!"

I enjoy seeing a commander doing his job and sometimes in Titan matches. The command mans the AA guns and titan barrage cannons and defend the titan. They are great commanders. Even if we lose, it's not the commander's fault as if he gave tactically correct orders and we chose not to follow it, that's how we lose!

Like many already mentioned, having a commander or not doesn't matter to many. A good repectable player who communicates and humors his team will usually win the round; even if they lose, no one would blame the fault on them.

[Snigel]

The real problem with all this vote kick is that it's too easy to vote yes and it's too hard to actually get somebody kicked.
Think of this; make it a lot of more effort to kick somebody and let it require perhaps half of the votes required today. The result would probably be that more morons are kicked and less regular guys because of "I press YES because I can"

[Bradley]

When I take command, I take pride in my job.:salute: I command first and if I can snipe to tip the balance in our favor then I will. I command first by dropping more supply boxes than UPS and FED EX combined. I do not send snipers to cap a silo, as if he is obviously sniping than why send a vulnerable asset to get killed? I try to asses the risk factor before I send someone in. I provide sat tracks and UAV's continuously.

That's what a good commander is folks!


The only problem with your method is most squad leaders will accept the order and just go do something else. If the commander is good then everybody should listen to him because he's best placed to say if there's a threat in the area and that you should try and capture something else. They'll also spot threats like Walkers and Gunships out so that other pilots or Engineers can take them out.

[Tehb2]

I don't see too many mutinee calls go through, but then again, I turn off my ability to vote. It seems that the people I want to kick cant get kicked, either from lack of voting or because they probably admin the server - abuse of power I say.

Anyways, I agree, using the commander position for pts is stupid. Even if I do bad, I feel good at the end if my team wins, and if I do great, but my team loses, I feel bad. My strategies are to win the round, and do the best I can to help achieve that goal, whether I get a medal in the end or not (although this strategy usually leads to high rankings). The worst thing is when a commander fails to support the team (what his job is supposed to be anyway - support team) with supplies, airstrikes, and spotting the enemies that need to be spotted (such as those sneaky bastards trying to sneak past everyone).

Anyone ever play commander and pick on the other commander with the occasional orbital on his position? I know that might seem uncool (I haven't done it in months, and never did it much anyway), but maybe its an easy way to disrupt the enemies command support, and its kinda funny to watch him either A, try to hide, or B, try to orbital me (I always command from a well protected location, and this is one of several reasons why...). Just a survey...

[Shurikane]

If the enemy commander is halfway intelligent, he'll have already sought cover somewhere right at the beginning of the match.

[Amaranthuse]

I don't find any point being commander in titan mode. No one follows orders...

What you can do at most is to supply rooftop snipers and EMP strike few tanks or APCs.

UAV is mostly used on Titan, without orbital strike, commanders can't really kill except manning AA guns or barrage cannons.

[Fingulfin]

As a Titan commander, I either pick the silo closest to my titan and defend it with RDX/APMs+Zeller or I sit in the Titan AAs.