I think Dice might have finally nailed it.

[redheadedfreak]

The balance in this game so far is perfect.

Yeah, I saw the thread about the air balance being great, but I'm talking the balance of the whole game.

Ever since BF1942, there have been balance issues. Whether it was the tanks or the airplanes or the useless sniper kit (IMO), the balance has never been totally right.

In BF2, the nade launchers owned, and the support kits were terrible and the sniper was just OK. Then, they nerfed nades, the support kits became godly, and so did the snipers. People could throw C4, then they couldn't, anti air sucked, then it was too good. It was always this see-saw, back and forth - patch to patch, from gimp to godly dance Dice seemed to doing, and it became frustrating at times.

But in this game, everything to me so far just feels right. The sniper class is good, but it's not godly. The assault kit is great and mixing assault and medic was a brilliant idea. The engineer kit is no longer the black sheep of the battlefield series since they merged it with anti-tank, and this also encourages more team work vehicle healing. The support isn't weak or super strong due to the great reticle accuracy changes. It takes a good while for a support guy to get zeroed in, and when he is, he is a stationary force to be reckoned with. Also, as a support, I have taken out many walkers from underneath.

The vehicle shields are a perfect get out of jail free card when used right. The mechs are good, but not godly. And of course, the air game is one of the best things they could have changed.

The bad thing about BF2 for me was the large selection of classes and I could never figure out what to be. On Karkand, I would barely touch certain classes, and on a map like Zatar, there's no way in hell I would be assault and get caught against a tank.

Of course, when unlocks come into play, some things might be unbalanced. I'm afraid vehicles might become too weak when facing the engineer unlock weapons, EMP stuff and C4 and I'm afraid the assault rocket attachment may become like the nade launcher, although I haven't used it (but then again, I didn't have a problem with the nade launcher in BF2).

The future setting is perfect since everything is fictional and every weapon and vehicle isn't limited by the constraints and the unequities of reality.

Anyway, I just had to post this since I see such malice towards the game on other forums saying it's just a mod and blah blah, but this is just another thing this game has that BF2 didn't - balance, and which has been an aspect of the Battlefield series that has been lacking in the past.

[Chris_Redfield]

You know, the balance type in BF2142 is altered. This isnt your "Rock Scissor Papper" type of balance. This is pointbalance. You can take any kit, any vehicle in the game and prety much score the same without putting in too much pressure. This is the kind of balance a game that is played for stats reall needs... But it goes pretty much far away from Battlefield balance.

[=S= HappyGilmore]

Nice post. I would agree. The teams are well matched. Teamwork is going to be the deciding factor!

[menace-uk-]

Sorry to the OP i could not read all that to early in the morning:eek:

But i do agree it seems as tho the retail will be balanced very well the demo is a little out of balance due to the lack of infantry gear to take out tanks/mech's but we all know that will change in retail;)

Overall i am very pleaded with the ballance of the game:D

[Chris_Redfield]

I dont know about that menace. Right now, no vehicle has stood much chance against me and my trusty AT kit. Saved for those times when lag was unplayable, or hovercrafts, Ive taken down every vehicle Ive wanted. AT kit is way more powerful than a vehicle. And with extra toys, this is going to be even worse.

[menace-uk-]

I dont know about that menace. Right now, no vehicle has stood much chance against me and my trusty AT kit. Saved for those times when lag was unplayable, or hovercrafts, Ive taken down every vehicle Ive wanted. AT kit is way more powerful than a vehicle. And with extra toys, this is going to be even worse.


Thats why i said it seems as tho it will be balanced i mean there are alot of unlocks to take out the tanks and stuff in retail;)

But in the demo the drivers just seem to rush every where with no tactical gameplay that may be cause it is just a demo with very little weapons to take them out;)

[Dangerdog]

I don't think that the gameplay alters that much with the unlocks, the frustration level rises for some players but the gameplay will still be frantic chases to the next silo/flag to the tune of Benny Hill music.

[Havazn]

Unlocks wont change the balance too much since nothing about the vehicles are going to change. Infantry is still going to be vulnerable to any weapon on a vehicle, just now they have new ways of fighting back.

[-=XX=-Nephilim]

Agreez with RedHeadFreak!

Most ballance BF experience so far and certainly most fun :)

Great game!

[PlayerOfGames]

Unlocks wont change the balance too much since nothing about the vehicles are going to change. Infantry is still going to be vulnerable to any weapon on a vehicle, just now they have new ways of fighting back.

You are very wrong, there is something which will drastically change how the vehicles operate once the retail games is released, the Dystek Repair V.2.

At the moment armour drivers have to get out of their vehicles to repair either themselves or another vehicle, but with the advanced Dystek we'll be back to an APC and a tank rolling down the road in convoy. APC EMPs the *** out of the enemy armour and the tank blows it away. Any damage they take they mutually repair from inside their respective vehicles.

A well coordinated team is gonna completely own this way.

[SwissArmyShoe]

Yep, I agree. This game so far seems to have been well thought out. I do think though, that until players get their hands on the unlocks it is hard to judge the true balance. Nerfs and boosts to kits, vehicles and weapons are inevitable. You cannot predict balance until the game is unleashed onto the world. There are just some elements that can never be beta tested until you have hundreds of thousands of players grinding through battle after battle. Saying that, the game has a solid base so balance issues that are addressed should be fairly minor(fingers crossed) rather than sweeping changes.

I think an excellent addition to the infantry/vehicle game is the vulnerability thing. I love being able to take out hover tanks in one shot by hitting them just right. Hit them wrong, and you can spend several missiles. That was something that annoyed me in BF2. The AT was one of my favourite classes and it took tactics to out smart a good tank driver, but you had to deliver 3 missiles minimum. In this game though, you hear that lock in your vehicle and you need to check your behind because you have that one hit kill paranoia thing going on.

I was in a hover tank last night and racked up over 18 kills, It was awesome. It was only possible because I was keeping fully alert and covered my vulnerable area(the back) It's a lot harder to tank whore in this game, it's a constant battle of tactics. This is only going to get harder with the unlocks.

Tanks need infantry support in this game a lot more than in BF2 to help counter the vulnerability. This is a very good thing. Tanks are no longer a one man army.



Slightly off topic, the only issue I have is the titan lag. My frame rate drops to half. It's still playable but I feel for those that play optimal at 30fps. But anyway...

Kudos to DICE for a great game!

[menace-uk-]

You are very wrong, there is something which will drastically change how the vehicles operate once the retail games is released, the Dystek Repair V.2.

At the moment armour drivers have to get out of their vehicles to repair either themselves or another vehicle, but with the advanced Dystek we'll be back to an APC and a tank rolling down the road in convoy. APC EMPs the *** out of the enemy armour and the tank blows it away. Any damage they take they mutually repair from inside their respective vehicles.

A well coordinated team is gonna completely own this way.

While i agree with what you said regarding the repair bit i dont think they will own anything the vast amount of usefull weapons to combat tank's/APC's should balance this out adn i seems alot more people are likeing the Engi kit than in BF2;)

I guess we will have to wait and see how this pans out in retail:D

[SwissArmyShoe]

While i agree with what you said regarding the repair bit i dont think they will own anything the vast amount of usefull weapons to combat tank's/APC's should balance this out adn i seems alot more people are likeing the Engi kit than in BF2;)

I guess we will have to wait and see how this pans out in retail:D


And this should nicely counter the fact that infantry as a whole will be more versatile in the retail release, due to mines and explosives. Vehicles are gonna need a little boost to survive once the infantry get their new toys.

[menace-uk-]

And this should nicely counter the fact that infantry as a whole will be more versatile in the retail release, due to mines and explosives. Vehicles are gonna need a little boost to survive once the infantry get their new toys.

Excactly:D

In theory everything sounds well balanced now we just have to see if the majority of people will use the weapon choice wisely enough to show the balance of the game;)

I know from playing the Sidi map that just by haveing the demo pack my scores would have doubled and would of helped loads to ge tmy team victory:D

[Deesies]

It is a welcome change from BF2s pwnmobiles

[Beerman]

Still need music when in a vehicle. Same reason I work out to hard rock PUMPAGE

[=S= HappyGilmore]

You are very wrong, there is something which will drastically change how the vehicles operate once the retail games is released, the Dystek Repair V.2.

At the moment armour drivers have to get out of their vehicles to repair either themselves or another vehicle, but with the advanced Dystek we'll be back to an APC and a tank rolling down the road in convoy. APC EMPs the *** out of the enemy armour and the tank blows it away. Any damage they take they mutually repair from inside their respective vehicles.

A well coordinated team is gonna completely own this way.

Yes. Just ONE example of how unlocks will change the game play. As in the Beta this is one major advantage of an unlock. Also, grenade, EMP mines, AP mines. The game will be different.

[Squarehed]

Well said OP. You put into writing what i just couldn't be bothered to do as it would take time away from playing 2142 :D

[Shask]

The balance in this game so far is perfect.

Yeah, I saw the thread about the air balance being great, but I'm talking the balance of the whole game.

Ever since BF1942, there have been balance issues. Whether it was the tanks or the airplanes or the useless sniper kit (IMO), the balance has never been totally right.

In BF2, the nade launchers owned, and the support kits were terrible and the sniper was just OK. Then, they nerfed nades, the support kits became godly, and so did the snipers. People could throw C4, then they couldn't, anti air sucked, then it was too good. It was always this see-saw, back and forth - patch to patch, from gimp to godly dance Dice seemed to doing, and it became frustrating at times.

But in this game, everything to me so far just feels right. The sniper class is good, but it's not godly. The assault kit is great and mixing assault and medic was a brilliant idea. The engineer kit is no longer the black sheep of the battlefield series since they merged it with anti-tank, and this also encourages more team work vehicle healing. The support isn't weak or super strong due to the great reticle accuracy changes. It takes a good while for a support guy to get zeroed in, and when he is, he is a stationary force to be reckoned with. Also, as a support, I have taken out many walkers from underneath.

The vehicle shields are a perfect get out of jail free card when used right. The mechs are good, but not godly. And of course, the air game is one of the best things they could have changed.

The bad thing about BF2 for me was the large selection of classes and I could never figure out what to be. On Karkand, I would barely touch certain classes, and on a map like Zatar, there's no way in hell I would be assault and get caught against a tank.

Of course, when unlocks come into play, some things might be unbalanced. I'm afraid vehicles might become too weak when facing the engineer unlock weapons, EMP stuff and C4 and I'm afraid the assault rocket attachment may become like the nade launcher, although I haven't used it (but then again, I didn't have a problem with the nade launcher in BF2).

The future setting is perfect since everything is fictional and every weapon and vehicle isn't limited by the constraints and the unequities of reality.

Anyway, I just had to post this since I see such malice towards the game on other forums saying it's just a mod and blah blah, but this is just another thing this game has that BF2 didn't - balance, and which has been an aspect of the Battlefield series that has been lacking in the past.

It's only the demo, fool.

[lortext]

I dont know about that menace. Right now, no vehicle has stood much chance against me and my trusty AT kit. Saved for those times when lag was unplayable, or hovercrafts, Ive taken down every vehicle Ive wanted. AT kit is way more powerful than a vehicle. And with extra toys, this is going to be even worse.

As a big fan of engineer I agree that the AT kit is powerful but on the field as long as the tank driver is aware of his environment, the position of his weak spots, and is good on not wasting his active defence an evenly skilled engineer will need to be extremly careful (and if he takes too long avoid enemy infantry as well). I see most people treat tanks as flag cappin' killmobiles which is not the best way to use them.

[Phenomenomenon]

Unlocks wont change the balance too much since nothing about the vehicles are going to change. Infantry is still going to be vulnerable to any weapon on a vehicle, just now they have new ways of fighting back.

Mines, grenades, cloaked recon + c7, vehicle and personel sensors.... You don't think this will change game balance from it's current dynamic? U crazy!!

[redheadedfreak]

It's only the demo, fool.

Sooo...you're disagreeing with me?

[danienne]

i think we all agree that teamwork = number 1

unlocks/vehicles = secondary

pointwhoring = teams who work together that rack up squad/capture/defend points ^^

[RaptoR]

I completely think that 2142 is going to be even more addicting that bf2 once was, played the beta and had all kinds of problems and now being able to actually play the demo really shows me their improvement

[Jim Steele]

I agree with you completely. It turned out great. Also, the unlocks won't change this balance at all. They will simply add innovative ways to handle existing situations, but I think the game will end up just as balanced. From what I've seen, the unlocks are largely about versatility, not pure domination.

[Roger Smith]

i think that in general the game play of 2142 is more balanced. but what im disappointed in, is that some vehicles and weapons and even how soldiers move is a bit noob friendly/non-skill oriented.

-take off the gunships training wheels and let us roll or give us an option. and don't give me any of that crap about it not being possible, with that engine configuration, it would be quite easy to roll. also we need elevation control on the gunship. basically there should be a boost button, and when its pressed the vehicle control attributes change to match the jet or hover configurations. because right now, it neither fly's like a jet or an attack helicopter.

-make the tv guided missile easier to control or give us options to change its settings.

-the lmg is grossly under effective. the ganz hmg is the one that should overheat real quick, the general purpose machineguns are for covering fire, so they should take much more heat. also standing and crouching is as accurate as prone with the machinegun, they should be 5x less accurate than prone. accuracy increases when you fire? wtf!!!!

-it takes 3 seconds from prone to get accurate, i can understand a second, but 3 seconds is a bit too much.

[Chris_Redfield]

I got teamkilled just because some t*at wanted the Walker I used. Some d*ck used EMP grenades to keep the hovercraft I was in, grounded, eventually made me crash and die. Ive been sniped off a buggy just so that the guy could ride.

Mark my words, If people teamkilling over unlocks in the early BF2 times were bad, youre going to be amazed how far people will go to steal your R2D2 ;) .

After all, with such great bonuses from gameplay, with such unlocks, things will be pretty damn hairy.

[UnrealAlex]

I got teamkilled just because some t*at wanted the Walker I used. Some d*ck used EMP grenades to keep the hovercraft I was in, grounded, eventually made me crash and die. Ive been sniped off a buggy just so that the guy could ride.

Mark my words, If people teamkilling over unlocks in the early BF2 times were bad, youre going to be amazed how far people will go to steal your R2D2 ;) .

After all, with such great bonuses from gameplay, with such unlocks, things will be pretty damn hairy.

I've played the demo a lot and have yet to be teamkilled, or be a victim of grief at all. I doubt people would tk for unlocks often.

[danienne]

I got teamkilled just because some t*at wanted the Walker I used. Some d*ck used EMP grenades to keep the hovercraft I was in, grounded, eventually made me crash and die. Ive been sniped off a buggy just so that the guy could ride.

Mark my words, If people teamkilling over unlocks in the early BF2 times were bad, youre going to be amazed how far people will go to steal your R2D2 ;) .

After all, with such great bonuses from gameplay, with such unlocks, things will be pretty damn hairy.

ive had people spawn in my transport helo after i left it to aid my squad in capturing a silo.. the dude that spawned it in jacked my transport and left me and my squad of 6 men in a silo point. we did eventually lose the game because of retards.

[TF501|Rocker]

Great post Red.

I agree 110%. This BF experience far outshines any of the prior releases.

BF2 was great but this is 'da bomb'.

The gameplay is immensely gratifying and addicting. I can only wait in eager anticipation for the release.

I am encouraged that the DICE team has taken the position that future tweaks to gameplay balance will be done very very carefully.

I do sincerely hope this attitude prevails within the DICE ranks and that the 'sniveling few' don't exert too much influence into future changes.

"OMGZ where is my aerial pwnzmobile ? DICE has ruined my life !!! I'm going to sue 11!111!"

As far as the TKing goes, I think you will find that 2142 has some definite deterrents to TKing that BF2 didn't have.

[simjay]

You are very wrong, there is something which will drastically change how the vehicles operate once the retail games is released, the Dystek Repair V.2.

At the moment armour drivers have to get out of their vehicles to repair either themselves or another vehicle, but with the advanced Dystek we'll be back to an APC and a tank rolling down the road in convoy. APC EMPs the *** out of the enemy armour and the tank blows it away. Any damage they take they mutually repair from inside their respective vehicles.

A well coordinated team is gonna completely own this way.


NICE, I didn't know there was a tool to repair a vehicle while staying inside your own. This is good news because tanks are not very difficult to destroy. Plus it encourages vehicle teamwork. I loved the challenge and intimidation a tank+APC rolling down a street gave me. It literally made me think strategically, and discreetly about how to destroy them.

[LEEROY_J3NKINS]

Sooo...you're disagreeing with me?

Don't bother stooping to his level. He'll beat you with experience...;)

[Bungalow_Bill]

You're right this game is "balanced" but not a unit to unit balance but on a player to player balance. Being a really skilled player in this game means almost nothing compared to every other FPS because they've "limited" what you can do (dumbed it all down). In a conventional sense aircraft armor and infantry are all fairly well balanced in BF2 when placed in the control of an average player. However if you get a "uber" pilot or tank driver or medic you may be getting your *** kicked as a result. That sky is the limit kind of a dynamic doesn't exist in BF2142 and thus is very easy to mistake for better unit balance but that simply is not the case.

[The 13th Raptor]

You're right this game is "balanced" but not a unit to unit balance but on a player to player balance. Being a really skilled player in this game means almost nothing compared to every other FPS because they've "limited" what you can do (dumbed it all down). In a conventional sense aircraft armor and infantry are all fairly well balanced in BF2 when placed in the control of an average player. However if you get a "uber" pilot or tank driver or medic you may be getting your *** kicked as a result. That sky is the limit kind of a dynamic doesn't exist in BF2142 and thus is very easy to mistake for better unit balance but that simply is not the case.


You keep saying that, and your only argument is “they dumbed it down”. This is actually wrong, because all they did is revert to how things were before BF2. Remember Bf1942 and Battlefield Vietnam? Infantry movement was limited, slower than in BF2, you couldn’t sprint, proning would fudge up your aim for a little while.

The spazzy infantry movement combined with battlefield’s inherent accuracy randomness, and lag, strange hit box behavior only made things more random in BF2. Sure, spazzing around like crazy might take some skill, but it cheapens the experience, because well placed shots and strategic placement becomes a lot less important. Where as the prepared In bf2142 come out on top most of the time. And I like this a lot more, it’s more realistic.

I told Mr Redfield already, making something less complex doesn’t make it worse by default. And with this I’m afraid it comes down to what kind of skill you appreciate more, I prefer strategy, not keyboard twitch skills.

[Skyfish]

You keep saying that, and your only argument is “they dumbed it down”. This is actually wrong, because all they did is revert to how things were before BF2. Remember Bf1942 and Battlefield Vietnam? Infantry movement was limited, slower than in BF2, you couldn’t sprint, proning would fudge up your aim for a little while.

The spazzy infantry movement combined with battlefield’s inherent accuracy randomness, and lag, strange hit box behavior only made things more random in BF2. Sure, spazzing around like crazy might take some skill, but it cheapens the experience, because well placed shots and strategic placement becomes a lot less important. Where as the prepared In bf2142 come out on top most of the time. And I like this a lot more, it’s more realistic.

I told Mr Redfield already, making something less complex doesn’t make it worse by default. And with this I’m afraid it comes down to what kind of skill you appreciate more, I prefer strategy, not keyboard twitch skills.
Well said. The man is right - it's about balance and strategy, but a different kind of balance and strategy to BF2.

I too replied (and argued with) Mr Redfield's posts elsewhere about the 'dumbing down' of air power, but the fact is that this game has a balance that is entirely different and far more sophisticated than that of BF2, and requires an entirely different approach.

My message is the same as in previous posts; if you want BF2, then keep playing BF2.

[Chris_Redfield]

The sky is the limit PW is talking about is SKILL LEVEL, as in hand-eye coordination mainly.

BF2142 offers more to a thinking player, however, its pretty fair to say that skillwise this game isnt demanding, which means in simple terms - "its dumbed down".

[jpongin]

I agree, Dice did a great job at balancing 2142. I feel that I can play any of the kits without worrying about point loss. The Ammo/Support, Med/Assault, and AT/Eng combo was a brilliant idea. Kudos Dice.

[some1one]

however, its pretty fair to say that skillwise this game isnt demandingWhat do you mean by this? How is it not harder now that you can not prone spam, dolphin dive etc.?

[menace-uk-]

The sky is the limit PW is talking about is SKILL LEVEL, as in hand-eye coordination mainly.

BF2142 offers more to a thinking player, however, its pretty fair to say that skillwise this game isnt demanding, which means in simple terms - "its dumbed down".

The only Dumb thing in the game is you:D

You belive BF2 to be a more skillfull game and all you do is complain about BF2142,If i was you i would not be on this forum i would be on a server somewhere playing the game i love(BF2);)


If you truly belive BF2 is a better game then dont waste your time trying to change people's opinions on stuff that is different from your Opinion just go and play the game:D

[Chris_Redfield]

The only Dumb thing in the game is you:D

Right, piss off moron.

You belive BF2 to be a more skillfull game and all you do is complain about BF2142,If i was you i would not be on this forum i would be on a server somewhere playing the game i love(BF2);)

Actually, its really a logical approach. Less movement freedom, inaccurate weapons, various penalties for stance changes and overall SLOWER gameplay indicated that the game is overall less skill demanding. Grow a brain, maybe you can actuall notice that.

If you truly belive BF2 is a better game then dont waste your time trying to change people's opinions on stuff that is different from your Opinion just go and play the game:D

Who the hell thinks Im wanting to change anyones opinion? Are you into conspiracy theories? :rolleyes:

Heres a tip for you, shut the **** up, dont praise the game, and just play it. How do you like your own advice?

[Chris_Redfield]

What do you mean by this? Is it not harder now that you can not prone spam, dolphin dive etc.?

On the contrary, its actually easier, which is my point.

[The 13th Raptor]

The sky is the limit PW is talking about is SKILL LEVEL, as in hand-eye coordination mainly.

BF2142 offers more to a thinking player, however, its pretty fair to say that skillwise this game isnt demanding, which means in simple terms - "its dumbed down".

It's not dumbed down, it's different. It now takes a different skillset to be more effective. Preperation, flanking, positioning and outsmarting are key. They partly went back to how things used to be, a anti tank player can kill a tank in one shot if hes prepared to go around to its rear, same goes for the mech. But if the tank/mech operator are smart enough, they can rape the **** out of you.
I have the high ground and a smg, some support guy is charging my position, his proning and hopping doesnt help him because his accuracy is ****. I win, he loses. In BF2 he would have shot me in the head with his pkm/saw/rpk in a instant.

They made infantry movement less complex, thus allowing tactical movement to come into play, it's balanced out. Just because you dont apriciate this kind of movement in battlefield 2142, doesnt mean the game has decreased in value to us all.

[dirty0harry]

All these morons who are complaining about game balance judging only on demo experience will all be shot on sight!!lol

[Chris_Redfield]

It's not dumbed down, it's different. It now takes a different skillset to be more effective. Preperation, flanking, positioning and outsmarting are key. They partly went back to how things used to be, a anti tank player can kill a tank in one shot if hes prepared to go around to its rear, same goes for the mech. But if the tank/mech operator are smart enough, they can rape the **** out of you.
I have the high ground and a smg, some support guy is charging my position, his proning and hopping doesnt help him because his accuracy is ****. I win, he loses. In BF2 he would have shot me in the head with his pkm/saw/rpk in a instant.

They made infantry movement less complex, thus allowing tactical movement to come into play, it's balanced out. Just because you dont apriciate this kind of movement in battlefield 2142, doesnt mean the game has decreased in value to us all.

This is exactly what I mean, but theres a big BUT.

As I said, tactical shooters do not necessarily reward the best shooter because weapons are accurate enough to make it almost a non-factor. BF2142 would be a tactical shooter, if you really could take out an enemy in a single burst, once youve effectively outflanked him our outsmarted him. BF2142, there is no such thing.

RVS, SWAT4, sluggish movement with tactical aids is compensated with weapons which are accuate enough to make a firefight last less than 2 seconds, if an opponent is outplayed. It also has movement freedom to create shootouts from behind cover which can last literally for minutes.

BF2142 offers the most, to the player with the lowest ping and fastest aim. Tactical movement is just an increased chance of winning the game.

In BF2, a target can dolphin dive, go 180 and still nail in in the head. Even though you came out behind him. Its very similar in BF2142. Just that the breakdancing is off now.

[The 13th Raptor]

This is exactly what I mean, but theres a big BUT.

As I said, tactical shooters do not necessarily reward the best shooter because weapons are accurate enough to make it almost a non-factor. BF2142 would be a tactical shooter, if you really could take out an enemy in a single burst, once youve effectively outflanked him our outsmarted him. BF2142, there is no such thing.

RVS, SWAT4, sluggish movement with tactical aids is compensated with weapons which are accuate enough to make a firefight last less than 2 seconds, if an opponent is outplayed. It also has movement freedom to create shootouts from behind cover which can last literally for minutes.

BF2142 offers the most, to the player with the lowest ping and fastest aim. Tactical movement is just an increased chance of winning the game.

In BF2, a target can dolphin dive, go 180 and still nail in in the head. Even though you came out behind him. Its very similar in BF2142. Just that the breakdancing is off now.

I’m going to have to draw your skills as an infantry player into question then, because I have no problems killing people while I’m carrying even the weakest main weapon in BF2142, the smg. They might escape even when flanked, but as I mentioned in another thread, **** like that happens in supposed "tactical" games as well. Though rarely have I engaged someone when he was at a disadvantage, and end up being killed by that person. So to me it’s very unlike BF2, where anyone can level the playing ground by hitting Z after bouncing around a few times so most of the inbound bullets catch air.

To me, bf2142 offers the most to those with half a brain, and those that can aim well. Just because you cant snipe people (not directed at you in particular chris) as easily as you could in BF2 with the g36e doesnt mean the weapons in the game are ****. Because 2142 is a different animal, and *gasp*, you might not be as "1337" as you think you should be at this NEW GAME.

[some1one]

In BF2, a target can dolphin dive, go 180 and still nail in in the head. Even though you came out behind him. Its very similar in BF2142. Just that the breakdancing is off now.
I don't really think exploiting the game or having the best macro is a skill or at least one to be proud of.

[Chris_Redfield]

I don't really think exploiting the game or having the best macto is a skill or at least one to be proud of.

I dont think its fair to call all hopping bastard cheaters or macroers. Fact for you, every new BF2 player uses jumping as a defensive means.

Raptor, tactical skill isnt an issue for me. Aiming somewhat is. But, I had no problems outplaying people in SWAT4, regardless of my aiming skill, and in my peak, 30:1 rounds werent rare anymore. Not because I was "1337", but I technically just outsmarted most of my opponents. Now, Ive played RVS, SWAT4 BF2 and BF2142. And BF2 is down there with the arcade shooters, with RVS being on top with sims. But SWAT is up with RVS and BF2142 isnt. BF2142 is actuall pretty down on the scale.

The fear of death in BF2142 is NON-existant because when I look back at my deaths, most of them could have been avoided. Not because I made a tactical mistake, but because I didnt simply run fast enough. Its not a question of tactics, its mostly a simple method to make the shooter shoot in bursts, which will be affected with random cone of fire.

[some1one]

I dont think its fair to call all hopping bastard cheaters or macroers. Fact for you, every new BF2 player uses jumping as a defensive means.
I dont mind about the new players who jump a little to dodge but I don't likw it when the is a guy dolphin diving making his hitbox nearly impossible to hit with his macros.

[Chris_Redfield]

I dont mind about the new players who jump a little to dodge but I don't likw it when the is a guy dolphin diving making his hitbox nearly impossible to hit with his macros.

That is exploiting. But another fact here, people who do it manually, using their own fingers, use skill.

Theres a whole other bunch of people using macros to create such movements and Im not justifying those.

People who actually, manually make it so its harder for you to hit them deserve a "Whoa!" and not a slap in the face.

[The 13th Raptor]

The fear of death in BF2142 is NON-existant because when I look back at my deaths, most of them could have been avoided. Not because I made a tactical mistake, but because I didnt simply run fast enough. Its not a question of tactics, its mostly a simple method to make the shooter shoot in bursts, which will be affected with random cone of fire.

I'd call lingering in the middle of a street, instead of running across before your enemy can get the drop on you a tactical error. ;)

[Chris_Redfield]

I'd call lingering in the middle of a street, instead of running across before your enemy can get the drop on you a tactical error. ;)

LOL, well. I can dance on the street, with medic hub below me, and it would take people a long time to actually kill me. Provided that they are not in my face of course, and that they wont use explosives or any kind. In SWAT4 for example, sitting in an open area was a death sentence.

[Transman]

LOL, well. I can dance on the street, with medic hub below me, and it would take people a long time to actually kill me. Provided that they are not in my face of course, and that they wont use explosives or any kind. In SWAT4 for example, sitting in an open area was a death sentence.

Really? Cause i murder people who are out in the open when i am support. A med hub isnt going to save you from a support weapon, or assault on single fire for that matter.

[The 13th Raptor]

But it's not swat4, it's battlefield 2142.

I dont know what people you play against, but if im at any decent distance to shoot at you dancing over a medic hub, you are still going to die, imagine if multiple people start shooting. It doesnt heal THAT fast, and while dancin you cant hit ****, so the point is moot. Sitting in a open area is a death sentence as well, the execution might take a little longer.. but then again it's a different game.

[Beerman]

Really? Cause i murder people who are out in the open when i am support. A med hub isnt going to save you from a support weapon, or assault on single fire for that matter.

I agree, anything other than a sniper rifle would kil him. Maybe a pistol and smg too at long range.

[Chris_Redfield]

So far Ive only been killed at distance when I foolishly counter-engage the target. If I would have been running, I would have never been killed. Thats random cone of fire for you.

[Beerman]

So far Ive only been killed at distance when I foolishly counter-engage the target. If I would have been running, I would have never been killed. Thats random cone of fire for you.

Maybe we should test your theory.
Support with self stabiliser (spelled wrong)

[Chris_Redfield]

Maybe we should test your theory.
Support with self stabiliser (spelled wrong)

It gets tested every time I cross an open space with either my thumb tapping the SPACE key in Rolling Stones rythm, or when holding down the SHIFT key. It has been like this in BF2, its a little better in BF2142.

[some1one]

With the support gun It's easy to kill people who are jumping and holding the shift key will not help you as you run out of sprint fast. Just means you will be a litte further away when I kill you.

[Shask]

The balance in this game so far is perfect.

Yeah, I saw the thread about the air balance being great, but I'm talking the balance of the whole game.

Ever since BF1942, there have been balance issues. Whether it was the tanks or the airplanes or the useless sniper kit (IMO), the balance has never been totally right.

In BF2, the nade launchers owned, and the support kits were terrible and the sniper was just OK. Then, they nerfed nades, the support kits became godly, and so did the snipers. People could throw C4, then they couldn't, anti air sucked, then it was too good. It was always this see-saw, back and forth - patch to patch, from gimp to godly dance Dice seemed to doing, and it became frustrating at times.

But in this game, everything to me so far just feels right. The sniper class is good, but it's not godly. The assault kit is great and mixing assault and medic was a brilliant idea. The engineer kit is no longer the black sheep of the battlefield series since they merged it with anti-tank, and this also encourages more team work vehicle healing. The support isn't weak or super strong due to the great reticle accuracy changes. It takes a good while for a support guy to get zeroed in, and when he is, he is a stationary force to be reckoned with. Also, as a support, I have taken out many walkers from underneath.

The vehicle shields are a perfect get out of jail free card when used right. The mechs are good, but not godly. And of course, the air game is one of the best things they could have changed.

The bad thing about BF2 for me was the large selection of classes and I could never figure out what to be. On Karkand, I would barely touch certain classes, and on a map like Zatar, there's no way in hell I would be assault and get caught against a tank.

Of course, when unlocks come into play, some things might be unbalanced. I'm afraid vehicles might become too weak when facing the engineer unlock weapons, EMP stuff and C4 and I'm afraid the assault rocket attachment may become like the nade launcher, although I haven't used it (but then again, I didn't have a problem with the nade launcher in BF2).

The future setting is perfect since everything is fictional and every weapon and vehicle isn't limited by the constraints and the unequities of reality.

Anyway, I just had to post this since I see such malice towards the game on other forums saying it's just a mod and blah blah, but this is just another thing this game has that BF2 didn't - balance, and which has been an aspect of the Battlefield series that has been lacking in the past.

Yes, they have nailed balance in the demo. Agreed.

Yeah, I saw the thread about the air balance being great, but I'm talking the balance of the whole game.

Idiot. No you're not.

[Chris_Redfield]

With the support gun It's easy to kill people who are jumping and holding the shift key will not help you as you run out of sprint fast. Just means you will be a litte further away when I kill you.

Theres another funny thing with support guns. At formidable distance. It takes me *hold crouch key* *press F key (single shot)* *aim at the head*.

I may get a little wounded, but Im always confident that the random cone of fire will give me at least 3 shots off at your head, and since youre not moving, if one of those hits, youll either run or die. Thats talking about support players in general.

Distance favoures Assault players, short distance favour engineers and medium distance favours proned support players who still lose accuracy for a second or so when they go prone.

The balance is actually here.

[Lazy8s]

It's only the demo, fool.

Damn you beat me to it. I can't believe this guy hasn't been flammed into submission yet. All you retarted tools "Yay for a perfectly balanced game that is so cool!!!" It's the freakin demo. I can't wait till next week for you guys to start crying.

BTW The support kit was never weak in BF2. Go read my thread and watch my videos at totalbf2.com. The reason they became godly was because they were balanced and then got boosted.

You can't honestly think any game will ever actually be balanced can you?

[The 13th Raptor]

You can't honestly think any game will ever actually be balanced can you?

Many games have been and will be, dice just kind of lost their way after bf1942.

[Chris_Redfield]

StarCraft. They dont use rock-paper-scissor balance. They use a balance created by certain combinations and tactics of engagement.

RPC balance makes certain objects in certain situations totally useless. The so-called zergling-hydralisk balance is the intelligent and exciting and often the most effective way to go.

Heres the problem, is the general BF2 player actually intelligent or good enough to use these tactics? Hardly.

Theres also mirror balance.

Example-

Walker vs Tank mirrorbalance - Walker at close / tanks at distance

Zergling/Hydralisk balance in this case.

APC (EMP) + AT troopers or APC + Tank ,at close range.

[Sethonan]

StarCraft. They dont use rock-paper-scissor balance. They use a balance created by certain combinations and tactics of engagement.

RPC balance makes certain objects in certain situations totally useless. The so-called zergling-hydralisk balance is the intelligent and exciting and often the most effective way to go.

Heres the problem, is the general BF2 player actually intelligent or good enough to use these tactics? Hardly.

Theres also mirror balance.

Example-

Walker vs Tank mirrorbalance - Walker at close / tanks at distance

Zergling/Hydralisk balance in this case.

APC (EMP) + AT troopers or APC + Tank ,at close range.

Looks like you never really played starcraft then; the rock/paper/scissors was not that evident but it's all around the balance engine.

Normal damage beats concussive damage beats explosive damage

Normal deals same damage minus armor bonus to all units; consussive deals full damage minus armor bonus vs small targets, half agaionst medium and one third against big targets.

Explosive deals half damage to small, 75% against medium and full damage to big targets.

This is why Goliaths get owned by Scouts, Goliaths deal explosive damage, while the ground cannon of the scouts deal normal damage. But instead goliaths destroy Carriers easily.

MArines can't hold Zealots, but can crush Dragoons, Zealots destroy marines but can't handle firebats, who in exchange cannot hold hydralisks. Who fall prey to siege tanks, who are no match to any air unit except the scourge.

What Starcraft does have, is an intrincate game of rock-papers-scissors that is not evident to the naked eye. And that's a game that after 20 patches is NEAR perfectly balanced. And there is still no counter to a mass carrier attack.

[Chris_Redfield]

What Starcraft does have, is an intrincate game of rock-papers-scissors that is not evident to the naked eye. And that's a game that after 20 patches is NEAR perfectly balanced. And there is still no counter to a mass carrier attack.

Good points on the rock-paper-scissor balance. But really, most attacks are a combination of units, not massing one single type.

As for mass carrier attack- Wraith/Cloak/Science Vessel has proven to be a very effective method.

[Sethonan]

Good points on the rock-paper-scissor balance. But really, most attacks are a combination of units, not massing one single type.

As for mass carrier attack- Wraith/Cloak/Science Vessel has proven to be a very effective method.

Lies.

you've never faced a MASS carrier attack. It's invincible. Even in the realm of theorycraft you just can't beat 36 carriers at once. All the protoss player needs is a Probe and you are toast. Wraiths deal concussive air damage that doesn't splash very well. 36 Carriers times 10 Interceptors each mean there are 360 units in the air that deal a maximum of 6 damage each; that's 2160 damage that is being dealt almost every second. Even if the Vessel EMP'd the lot, with a couple of Arbiters in play, the matter gets more complicated.


6 Carriers are defendable against.

12 Carriers are to be feared, but manegeable.

24 Carriers are trouble and you might not make it back alive.

36 carriers are unstoppable. Period.

42 wich I believe is the maximum you can build without having to resrot to killing Drones, are just overkill.

Devourers just might slow down them enough to kill a dozen or so before falling down, but the remaining force can still tear trough any defense. BAttlecruisers have the best chance IF defense matrixed, in equal numbers, and fully charged for Yamato gun blasts; and it still takes a LOT of micromanagement, two yamato blasts for carrier, and a lot of luck.

The trick is stopping the protoss from amassing carriers from the very beginning.

[The_KELRaTH]

Whatever is considered about the game balance the one thing that stands out for me playing the demo so far is I haven't been frustrated from sessions where all you seem to do (BF2) is spawn and die over and over (from arty / choppers/planes).