Having support HMG depression?

[RpTheHotrod]

Well, it seems that almost everyone has come to the conclusion that HMG is just flat out inferior to the stock LMG. Yes, LMG does less damage....but it fires more rounds where it ends up doing more damage considering blasting until overheating. So...if you're having the blues of wasting your unlock, consider this:

What HMG DOES have over the LMG

Has a smaller final cone of fire. However, it also has a buttload more recoil. It does more damage over a short period of time, while the LMG does more damage if you blast until overheating. Since it has a smaller cone of fire, it tends to be better at long range attacks. However, you must watch your recoil! Unfortunatly, it is very poor for close up attacks since the accuracy is terrible right off the bat if you go crouch/prone.


SO, this is what I decided.

If you blew your unlock on HMG, as I did, I have put this strategy together.

IF:

-You are on titan hall defense-
-------------LMG------------
You don't need the longer range accuracy. Although your cone of fire is larger, it also allows for more errors. Since titan defense means you'll be close up and personal, you'll need that room for error when enemies are running around a lot. You won't get perfect shots.


-You are on titan cargo bay via vent defense-
-------------LMG------------
You don't need the longer range accuracy. Although your cone of fire is larger, it also allows for more errors. Since titan defense means you'll be close up and personal, you'll need that room for error when enemies are running around a lot. You won't get perfect shots

-You are on general titan defense-
--------------Shotgun-----------
Running around the cargo bay and sneaking in behind the enemies is great for shotgun blasts.

-You are on titan assault via vent camping-
-------------------LMG-------------------
You don't need the longer range accuracy. Although your cone of fire is larger, it also allows for more errors. Since titan defense means you'll be close up and personal, you'll need that room for error when enemies are running around a lot. You won't get perfect shots

-You are on titan assault without camping-
-----------------Shotgun----------------
Running around the cargo bay and rushing into the camping enemies is great for shotgun blasts. Prone campers can be taken out with one shot.

-You are assaulting/defending in a close quarters map-
-----------------Shotgun-----------------
With hardly any ranged combat, you'll want some quick burst shots.

-You are assaulting/defending in a large, outdoor map in a non-open environment-
---------------------------------LMG-------------------------------
(non-open meaning a good mix of "outdoors" and "buildings") Since your outdoors, you'll want some ranged attacks. However, since it's also non-open and you'll run into some close quarter battles (ie around buildings), you'll want some quick accuracy and fast fire with room for error.

-You are assaulting/defending in a large, outdoor map that is open-
------------------------------HMG------------------------------
Since it's open, you can setup your defense and pick off people at a distance with the range accuracy. HMG is just reliable enough to survive a few close encounters, as well. If you're assaulting, it's best to setup a bit off and pick off people at a distance as they concentrate on your squadmates that are in their immediate area.




So overall....the HMG has one thing over the LMG...longer ranged shots (though recoil is bad). This is really only useful in outdoor maps with few objects in the way of your shots.


At least you'll get "some" use out of it if you unlocked it :/

[DiggerDagger]

lol, love the way the HMG is only useful in ONE situation. i feel i waisted 4 unlocks and now i just stick to the LMG

[LECHIP]

Too ba, i tough that all the weap unlocks where actually usefull... ill go for clark when i unlock support then.

[Koof]

lol, love the way the HMG is only useful in ONE situation. i feel i waisted 4 unlocks and now i just stick to the LMGNote though, you'll probably be in the HMG situation frequently.

[Iwantcable]

It's alright, guys, we gotta shrink here to talk to you...

:rofl:

[Amerion]

I personally can't stand the Ganz's scope, where it is blue on the outside, but that vertical strip isn't. It distracts me so much when I'm trying to focus on targets.

Love the LMG, and haven't tried the Clark yet.

[HighDef8Bit]

The one time I looted a Ganz, I was so disgusted by the scope I could hardly stand it. I've got enough in that tree to field unlock the turret, now I'll work on the Shotgun tree or finish getting to Engy Railgun; already got the Lambert Carbine.

[古強者死神]

I am gonna unlock it after I get the HAV on the engineer side just to have it and be done with support, I think I know of a time or 2 it may come in handy.

[BubbaBubberson]

They have really made the Support kit a pure defensive package (look at the unlocks). I unlocked this kit first and have found myself regulated to titan/flag/silo defense. This is fine with me since I am now working on unlocking the assault kit.

Ganz + Sentry + Ground Sheild = Solo Titan Hall defense

[microphage]

i wasted one unlock on the Ganz...thought it'll be like the PKM but not even close. Although the sentry gun is really useful. Shoulda used it to unlock the Clark tree.

[193d DCAT1]

I find the HMG is better in the titan corridors than the LMGs - it is easier to fend off multiple-person attacks with the Ganz once that thing is zeroed in on the first person it is easier to kill the other 2. That and a sentry gun to back you up makes it a worthy unlock tree.

[ToolsMcgraw]

interesting, i've only use the hmg since i've unlocked i may have to go back and play with the LMG, not used the shotgun much either.

On titan defence i am rather good, but on open assault, up close and personal the hmg does seem to take a long time to lock on and hit anything.

does everyone feel this way about the HMG?

[Relmar]

Biggest piece of crap gun ever.

[EclipsedTerror]

On titan defence i am rather good, but on open assault, up close and personal the hmg does seem to take a long time to lock on and hit anything.


Titan defense is very easy to play. If you are dying on defense then you are not good.

"A retard monkey jones'ing for a banana with one appendage could play Titan defense."

Biggest piece of crap gun ever.

Not going to go into the details unless people are want to hear my rantings, but that is how I feel about the weapon too. :|:

[(Undecided)]

Guess what? The Ganz is getting a buff in 1.1!

[EclipsedTerror]

Guess what? The Ganz is getting a buff in 1.1!

It's a buff to the players to love to camp Titan hallways otherwise a damage increase is useless.

It will still be the worst choice out of the three machine guns in the Support line for Conquest matches.

IMO, decreasing the recoil and changing the zoom reticle so you can actually see what you're firing at at long ranges would have been a better buff.

[ColonelPanic]

IMO, decreasing the recoil and changing the zoom reticle so you can actually see what you're firing at at long ranges would have been a better buff.

I'll second that.

[Alpha_Gator]

I'm not sure if they're comparable (the RPK and the Ganz), but the stock LMGs in 2142 far outweigh the damage potential of the HMG. Does this strike anyone else as counter-intuitive?

For example:

Bianchi: Max Damage/Round 18 - Min Damage/Round 15 - Max Damage/Sec 270 - Min Damage/Sec 225

Shuko: Max Damage/Round 18 - Min Damage/Round 14 - Max Damage/Sec 270 - Min Damage/Sec 210

Old Ganz: Max Damage/Round 22 - Min Damage/Round 18 - Max Damage/Sec 220 - Min Damage/Sec 180

The old Ganz would need to have it's normal damage raised almost 23% (to 27) to have the same amount of damage/second as the stock LMGs and minimum damage would have to increase about 22% to be on par with the to LMGs. The bullet velocity is the same, so I assume range and armor penetration are also the same. The low rate of fire makes the Ganz much less effective and therefore a wasted unlock. I would say that any increases lower than these amounts and DICE is wasting their time tweaking the Ganz.

Recoil is bad, yes, but the sights are the worst in the game.

[craggsy]

Sorry if this upsets you, but its an unlock. Its not meant to be better simply an alternative tot he Stock LMG's. I have bnoth assault unlocks yet i prefer the stock Assualt Rifles. If we had upgrades instead of unlcoks then you would have a case, but the unlocks give you something differnt and not necessarily better.

[RpTheHotrod]

Crag. You would have a point if it was something better in another area. You know, like the shotgun. It's not better, it's different...but useful.

The HMG has NOTHING over the LMG except for distance shots...but machine guns arn't supposed to be sniper rifles, anyway.

There is a reason to choose the shotgun over a machine gun, and vice versa. However, there is no reason to choose the HMG over LMG.

Hopefully the patch might correct this.

[EclipsedTerror]

Sorry if this upsets you, but its an unlock. Its not meant to be better simply an alternative tot he Stock LMG's. I have bnoth assault unlocks yet i prefer the stock Assualt Rifles. If we had upgrades instead of unlcoks then you would have a case, but the unlocks give you something differnt and not necessarily better.

ALL unlocked weapons excel at something stock weapons do not. The Ganz is the only unlock weapon that is vastly inferior to stock weapons. It does not do anything better than the LMG's. I would not even use the Ganz in a camp scenario.

Titan corridors are the only place where the Ganz is equal to if not still inferior to LMG's. There is little distance and very few places to hide between you and the enemy. It's like shooting fish in a barrel for any weapon thus making that argument completely useless.

With the damage boost in the up and coming patch, EA still hasn't addressed the terrible recoil and ironsights/zoom reticle that makes it harder to fire at long ranges than the LMG's. Basically it'll be an assault weapon that you cannot assault with and has a slow rate of fire. The only positive thing to mention is the clip size over assault weapons.

[Fearness]

I've really been having a hard time with my support toon. I simply never have felt so in-effective. The guns suck horribly, and the sentry does too. The shield would be great if it was one-way. Throw support a bone, give em SOME way to kill people... make the sentry more intelligent or improve the guns.. Right now assaults and engineers are the best... and there is no reason to take any of the support unlocks except for the ammo crate and emp grenades, and maybe the pulse sensor.. but again.. since the way our gun works holding the pulse meter out jacks up your aim..

Support is currently owned at all ranges (at short range you might as well change to the knife). The goofy "cone of suppression" would be great if it just stayed the same size at all points. Having to wait 5 seconds every time you move to let the sights settle is no fun at all and also means that you are dead every single time you run into someone and didn't expect them (you basically have to be proning all day to hit anything) Right now assault is better suppressing fire than support because the ammo lands closer to the mark. My idea of what support should be is that when they are shooting they are not approachable. The overheat thing on the weapon is just ridiculous too.. it makes their weapon worse than assaults and that's silly considering it should be more powerful if limiting to your mobility somewhat.

[EclipsedTerror]

I've really been having a hard time with my support toon. I simply never have felt so in-effective. The guns suck horribly, and the sentry does too. The shield would be great if it was one-way. Throw support a bone, give em SOME way to kill people... make the sentry more intelligent or improve the guns.. Right now assaults and engineers are the best... and there is no reason to take any of the support unlocks except for the ammo crate and emp grenades.

I truly hope this post was meant as a joke or you were being sarcastic.

I don't have screenshots of the games where I had 50 or 60 kills alone with Support LMG's in Conquest matches. In some Titan matches I've had well over 80 kills with Support LMG's.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v259/Borug/BF21422006-12-1100-22-56-26.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v259/Borug/BF21422006-12-0900-25-48-85.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v259/Borug/BF21422006-12-0906-26-51-46.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v259/Borug/BF21422006-12-0907-05-10-34.jpg

[EclipsedTerror]

Support is currently owned at all ranges (at short range you might as well change to the knife). The goofy "cone of suppression" would be great if it just stayed the same size at all points. Having to wait 5 seconds every time you move to let the sights settle is no fun at all and also means that you are dead every single time you run into someone and didn't expect them (you basically have to be proning all day to hit anything) Right now assault is better suppressing fire than support because the ammo lands closer to the mark. My idea of what support should be is that when they are shooting they are not approachable. The overheat thing on the weapon is just ridiculous too.. it makes their weapon worse than assaults and that's silly considering it should be more powerful if limiting to your mobility somewhat.

Whole lot of dumb in this post.

Couple points...

Firstly, Support is not owned at all ranges. Support excels at medium to long ranges. We do very well in close range, but when facing an assault or recon enemies in a face to face gunfight you will lose more often than not. Experience will help to win these fights more often.

Second, Waiting five seconds to fire? What are you talking about? You must either be firing from a stand position or you're dolphin diving. Don't do either of those. Drop to a crouch and those five seconds turned into one second for the reticle to shrink and even less time if you begin firing as you crouch.

Lastly, You need to learn to control your fire and sustain fire without overheating. It's a very easy thing to do. All it takes is a little bit of practice.


Sorry if I seem angry or annoyed, but I'm tried of people ****ting on the class. People think that playing Support for five minutes they will or should be as effective as a Baur, Voss, Carbine or Sniper user. When it reality it takes time and a lot of practice.

If you want to run and gun with Support, which you will do a lot of in Conquest matches, it will take even longer to become effective and master. I only use support with LMG's and I do a lot of run and gunning. Even with all my experience I still don't always get it right. Give it some time.

[[C22] yrethguad]

When using the unlock mod, you can switch from LMG to HMG, and you notice that the HMG has a larger cone. I agree about the sights, but I seem to get the same kills with either weapon. I do like the Shuko though. That rate of fire and the sound is awesome.

[Fearness]

I'm in the same boat with guns really. The shotgun is pretty useless unless you are running with a squad that is good enough to keep the long rangers down. The unlockable guns are much more useless than the sentry. I still wish the ground shield was a little more impressive, but even that has some situational uses. Both guns aren't even worth the unlock. The default gun is so much more useful in every way. I'd spend my gun unlock on grenades. :P

[Cyphergk]

Well, I'd like to say that I actually find the Ganz very useful. The reason most people hate the weapon, I assume, is because of its inaccuracy upon firing it from a standing position or on immediately crouching. The Ganz is not meant to do this, and all of you dolphin diving fanboys will have to continue to cry about unlocking it...oh well. The Ganz is a true support weapon, think a .50 cal, but slightly lighter. Firing a .50 cal from your hip is incredibly inaccurate and being a true machine gun overheats very very quickly. The Ganz needs to be "set-up" before it becomes effective. It is definitely not a lone wolf weapon and requires that you have a focussed enough squad that can watch your flanks. It's a sacrifice of speed and initial accuracy for a stronger bullet. If running and gunning is your thing, go with the LMG, hands down. But if you work with a squad and prefer to play "supporting" support, then it's really a matter of how patient you are.

LMG- Offensive squads.
HMG- Defensive squads.

[RottnJP]

Actually, this thread was made prior to patch 1.25, when the LMG's were over-powered. Right now, the Ganz friggin' rocks, because the LMG's got over-nerfed in the 1.25 patch, and the Ganz damage got bumped up a bit. The 1.4 patch that is in beta improves the LMG's again, without making them so overpowered.

But you are right- the Ganz is clearly not an assault rifle, and is quite effective if used properly.

Welcome to the forums! ;)

[Bladeeagle]

What the?

[BandoIruka]

a newb bumped this thread back from the dead of december. Things are much different now. I think i see more people using the ganz instead of the stock lmgs these days. Either there is too much recoil on lmgs or the guys that made the patch team didn't take into account of recoil + network latency = crosshair going everywhere.

I say this because on some servers, the lmg recoil is manageable enough for me to get a decent number of kills with, but on other servers the sights just won't stop dancing everywhere. Strangely enough, the ganz recoil is much easier to manage than the lmgs most of the time, regardless of my ping. (from my pov) It just climbs up predictably as you lay down some sustained fire. That is probably why its good for long range. LMGs still rock at medium/close since accuracy is no longer so important.

[Minmaster]

yeap ganz is all over the place right now. im guessing its cuz the LMGs got nerfed but they will make a comeback because 1.40 is supposed to improve them.

[RottnJP]

I guess the deal is they meant to increase the vertical recoil on the LMG's for patch 1.25, but increased both vertical and horizontal, which makes 'em really tough to do much with. 1.4 resets the horizontal dispersion, but leaves vertical at the higher value. It really makes a biiiig difference.

[sempf]

vertical recoil can you hande by moving your mouse down. so it doesn't make much difference with the beginning. but noobs cant own anymore with it.

[jxcream]

i played a game today using the ganz and got 35 kills 6 deaths (using nades and the knife occasionally). so clearly you just dont know what your doing with the gun