My problem with IDS-1. Discuss

[PassTheChips]

First of all I think this cheap tool takes a lot of the game. Whether I am attacking or defending is just too dam easy to lay and IDS-1 for a quick second to check for anyone whos there. It takes suspense out of the game and makes it too easy.

You can just slab down the IDS-1 on a Accipter an go to town with a conistent mobile UAV. Wich brings me to my next point. The IDS-1 make other other unlock completely worthless. Will you carry the Pulsemeter if you have an IDS-1? Wil you use the otus when u can have a constant UAV whn ever you need it and one that you can resupply? Will you ever need to ask your commander for a UAV when you have a personal one right in your hands. I really almost refuse to USE this unlock because it is just to dam easy to use.
It takes the fun out of other classes to. I mean will you use the Assualt UAV grenade in a squad when a support person can just throw down an IDS-1 and survey the whole area for ever long he wants. Will you use the camo nowing that every support inantry can see way long before your even 100m close to him even if you activated your camo away enough from his netbat?

It is my opinion that this unlock should be completely be removed due to the reasons I stated above.

Is anyone with me!

[Vikaman]

Stick an IDS onto an Accipiter, and basically... you it will fire at everything...

OVERPOWERED!

[Vreki]

I dont like the idea of killing all stealth in the game either.
That the SL had the Otus was fine, you rarely saw one of those anyway.

But now the map will be covered in pocket UAVs.

[Iwantcable]

2-3 of them can cover all of the rear flags in Camp G. You're never going to be able to camp rear flags (on Cerbere either) as PAC now.

[dread]

Wil you use the otus when u can have a constant UAV whn ever you need it and one that you can resupply?

If the unlock stays, 80% of all players will be playing support.
- Instant "wallhack"
- Weaponry for -any- range
- Unlimited ammunition and explosives
- RDX launcher capable of destroying FAVs

IMO the IDS-1 should be easily visible and slow like the Otus drone.

Edit: Okay, now I know that you can't damage tanks/walkers with the RDX launcher -_-

[Shalashaska]

the rdx clark cant destroy heavy vehicles attal, cant even scratch them


the IDS-1 needs to make a much loader beeping noise, and it needs to have a large flashing red light on it

[kamikaze cow]

I haven't used it, or scene it used, but the idea is kind of creepy....

[The_Eliminator]

- RDX launcher capable of destroying heavy vehicles

:rofl: :rofl:

( i Beta tested)

[Biotech2142]

Well...the little thing is a bit overpowered....and you can also stick it in vehicles making the support class the next best vehicle driver because if you are a SL, you can be in a vehicle with the portable UAV with accipter deployed to allow you to kill any sheety infantry that gets near you when you cap a flag/silo.

[Drevor]

:rofl: :rofl:

( i Beta tested)

... well ... he didnt say instantly ... but its safe to say that your trusty LMG is more efficient vs light vehicles than the ubernerfed nubtube :rolleyes:

btw ... I tried sticking the IDS/PDS to the Accipiter ... is there a trick or am I just too stupid for that? (... since this is the internetz, I feel obliged to state that responding "yes!" will make your e-penis shrink ... thank you for your attention)

[Vreki]

btw ... I tried sticking the IDS/PDS to the Accipiter ... is there a trick or am I just too stupid for that? (... since this is the internetz, I feel obliged to state that responding "yes!" will make your e-penis shrink ... thank you for your attention)

I wont risk that, so I will just say "No comment!"
Maybe you need to hit it with an EMP grenade first?

[Whiteplague]

RDX launcher capable of destroying heavy vehicles[QUOTE]
[QUOTE=The_Eliminator;261337]:rofl: :rofl:

( i Beta tested)

:rofl::rofl:


hahaha me too an RDX shotgun capable of destroying vehicles my arse!

[BurnerDuece]

Well its too late to change it now, only thing that can be done is to exploit the hell out of it so that DICE will nerf it in the first patch for NS. As an avid fan of active camo I'm not looking forward to meeting support class on the NS battlefield.

[Vreki]

Well its too late to change it now, only thing that can be done is to exploit the hell out of it so that DICE will nerf it in the first patch for NS. As an avid fan of active camo I'm not looking forward to meeting support class on the NS battlefield.

The good news is that it is also available in the core game!

[Kalo]

I Got an idea! Know someone whos doing it? Shoot the accipter, Better yet, Nade the area the IDS is in =P, Not too hard.

Over powered? LOL you guys and your linear selves make it a bit overpowered, i killed 3 guys over 20 times cause they didnt learn, Same method everytime, "Lets go into the vent!" :\...

[vs._9mm]

:rofl: :rofl:

( i Beta tested)

Yeah me too and that rdx shotty does not scratch armor...like someone else said you'd be better off with the bianchi blowing up FAVs.

[Biotech2142]

I Got an idea! Know someone whos doing it? Shoot the accipter, Better yet, Nade the area the IDS is in =P, Not too hard.

Over powered? LOL you guys and your linear selves make it a bit overpowered, i killed 3 guys over 20 times cause they didnt learn, Same method everytime, "Lets go into the vent!" :\...

You are forgetting the "UAV-like" function...

(I hope you know what I mean)

[SQUiB]

The quick fix is to just make it unable to be resupplied but even then it sounds like it will be overpowered.

What sort of range does it have anyway? Roughly the same as the PDS-1?

[Biotech2142]

What sort of range does it have anyway? Roughly the same as the PDS-1?

Yep.


Another fix could be making it last few seconds.

[ak1knight]

in 22CW we modded the pds-1 to detect infantry, and it isn't over powered, if people work as a team they are easy to avoid and only one cannot cover a flag effectively. just run an fav straight past and people will let you drive by like in camp g.

and all the noobs will ignore it, just like regular UAVs

[dread]

[QUOTE=Dread;261182] RDX launcher capable of destroying heavy vehicles[QUOTE]


:rofl::rofl:


hahaha me too an RDX shotgun capable of destroying vehicles my arse!

You have no own opinion about the IDS-1? Well, next time I'll test the RDX launcher instead of relying on forum posts.

[FiveToTwelve]

Hmmm...I think I remember a few complaints about the PDS-1 when the game was new. "A mobile UAV!" ,"No one will ever request a UAV anymore", "Stick a PDS-1 to an Otus and you will have a noobs wet dream!".
Well first off, the Otus/Accipiter is for the SLs only. There can be only 9 SL at a max per team and i barley remember seeing 9 squads with enough squad members to deploy an Accipter or even an Otus. So chances are low that there will be many Accipiter-IDS-1 combos on the field. And even then you can't see vehicles on the netbat. Therefor no personal UAV. And if you still want to do that, you have to pack IDS-1 and EMP. No well hidden sentry anywhere, just a swirling drone above your head making noise and bumping walls.
IDS-1 detects only infantry as the PDS-1 only detects vehicles. I agree on infantry maps like Cerbere/Tunis/Gibraltar it will be used a lot, but on BOTH sides. And it takes an unlock slot like the PDS-1 does. As support you will have the choice of being totaly helpless vs armour (dropping your EMP grenades) or leaving your trusty sentry in the storage. You have to trade your infantry scanning ability for something else.
I don't see much of a problem. Sometimes it will be harder on the field but this a war in the future and not a barbecue in the park. :)

[Lt. Orth]

First of all I think this cheap tool takes a lot of the game. Whether I am attacking or defending is just too dam easy to lay and IDS-1 for a quick second to check for anyone whos there. It takes suspense out of the game and makes it too easy.

You can just slab down the IDS-1 on a Accipter an go to town with a conistent mobile UAV. Wich brings me to my next point. The IDS-1 make other other unlock completely worthless. Will you carry the Pulsemeter if you have an IDS-1? Wil you use the otus when u can have a constant UAV whn ever you need it and one that you can resupply? Will you ever need to ask your commander for a UAV when you have a personal one right in your hands. I really almost refuse to USE this unlock because it is just to dam easy to use.
It takes the fun out of other classes to. I mean will you use the Assualt UAV grenade in a squad when a support person can just throw down an IDS-1 and survey the whole area for ever long he wants. Will you use the camo nowing that every support inantry can see way long before your even 100m close to him even if you activated your camo away enough from his netbat?

It is my opinion that this unlock should be completely be removed due to the reasons I stated above.

Is anyone with me!

Heh. You know, just because you aren't gonna use it, doesn't mean noone else will, it's an unlock, get used to it or dont play the game.

[Buttoneer]

And it takes an unlock slot like the PDS-1 does. As support you will have the choice of being totaly helpless vs armour (dropping your EMP grenades) or leaving your trusty sentry in the storage. You have to trade your infantry scanning ability for something else.


This is the key limiting factor, though IMO people will start to change their loadouts more dynamically with NS and use this toy in defensive positions but swap to the EMP for offensive, for example.

[FiveToTwelve]

This is the key limiting factor, though IMO people will start to change their loadouts more dynamically with NS and use this toy in defensive positions but swap to the EMP for offensive, for example.

nothing wrong with it.
btw, I don't remember if EMP is affecting the IDS/PDS and i am too lazy to test. anyone knows about it?

[MachineMadness]

.

But now the map will be covered in pocket UAVs.



Exactly.

Commanders job just took another blow, and smart support players will drop one at a flag then from there on in, place them in the gaps between.

going to be a very tough job

[BEE_GrimReaper]

Well its too late to change it now, only thing that can be done is to exploit the hell out of it so that DICE will nerf it in the first patch for NS. As an avid fan of active camo I'm not looking forward to meeting support class on the NS battlefield.

You are actually aware that support is the natural enemy of recon? Ever seen, what the NetBat update of the support does? Activate active camo and a support being equipped with that thing (doesn't take up a slot) sees a nice, moving diamond in his FOV where you are currently at....

As for the rest... The IDS-1 is basically the same as the PDS-1 of the engineer which is already available. Only difference is: one detects infantry, the other one vehicles... so I suggest, before whining and moaning and bitching.... try it first before complaining.

[Shalashaska]

thes a big difference in being able to detect infantry and vehicles tho


sure, on a large titan map like shushida taiba (however its spelt) its not going to be that powerful


but think about camp gibraltar, on many places, it can cover the entire width of the map, just a single one, preventing anybody from being able to sneak to back flags

1 placed at a flag, can see prety much everything, making the commanders UAV allmost useless


once unlocked, every support will have one, ther allready is (and will be) many support players, in a 64 player camp gibraltar, the entire map will be covered in them, they will be as common as a med box, stealth tactics in the gameplay will be totaly irelivent

[Vreki]

As for the rest... The IDS-1 is basically the same as the PDS-1 of the engineer which is already available. Only difference is: one detects infantry, the other one vehicles... so I suggest, before whining and moaning and bitching.... try it first before complaining.

The difference is that Tanks and Walkers don't rely much on stealth, so the PDS-1 doesn't have the same impact.

Imagine a support camping a corner with the IDS-1 and his unlimited supply of grenades. And then add the other camping tools like the Sentry Gun or the Shield.
There is no longer any chance of rushing him, he will know as soon as you approach the corner and throw a grenade or two..

[BEE_GrimReaper]

The difference is that Tanks and Walkers don't rely much on stealth, so the PDS-1 doesn't have the same impact.

Imagine a support camping a corner with the IDS-1 and his unlimited supply of grenades. And then add the other camping tools like the Sentry Gun or the Shield.
There is no longer any chance of rushing him, he will know as soon as you approach the corner and throw a grenade or two..

Two words: suppression sniping... there are many ways to skin a cat... the IDS-1 has its uses but they are limited.... And I tried this thing extensively... it is not the holy grail of invulnerability

[BurnerDuece]

Two words: suppression sniping... there are many ways to skin a cat... the IDS-1 has its uses but they are limited.... And I tried this thing extensively... it is not the holy grail of invulnerability

I don't think anyone is saying that Supporters will now be invulnerable. What is being said is that the IDS-1 will change game play pretty drastically when employed by intelligent players.

I consider it priority #1 on maps like CampG, Berlin, and Cerbere to break thru the front lines and cap a base a far back as I can. I, as well as most other Recon, do this by observing where the action is happening and head the other direction to avoid UAVs and combatants in general. After I'm past the front only the commander knows what I've done and there's the good chance that only one squad or an APC will follow the commanders orders to come kill me. Combine that with Active Camo ability and decent SA and I have a fair chance of accomplishing my mission.

With the IDS-1 a relatively small # of supporters will now be able to canvas the entire front lines with what is essentially a UAV that never runs out of juice or has to be recharged like the commander's UAV. This to me is unbalanced from a team play perspective.

Also since the AC Netbat was mentioned the IDS-1 will also buff the active camo netbat. I never had a problem countering the AC Netbat- just don't run right in front of a supporter, or anyone for that matter, AC is supposed to be used to sneak past the enemy's flank. But with an IDS-1 always available to the supporter, or is more likely the case IDS-1's covering the entire front, they will now always be looking at an enemy soldier trying to flank them making AC much less useful.

None of us are bitching or complaining here, we're merely trying to point out that once the IDS-1 is used with good team tactics it will make stealth penetration a useless tactic. And at present I think stealth penetration is one of the most EFFECTIVE tactics being employed on tight infantry maps. All of this leads to, in my mind, a big change in game play tactics and an unbalancing of game play in favor of defenders and against attackers.

Make the IDS-1 have a more limited range than the PDS-1, which is only logical in my mind- the PDS-1 is made to track big a$$ vehicles that move fast requiring a large scan range. Infantry are small and move slow in comparison so a smaller scan range would make perfect sense for ppl saying PDS-1=IDS-1 just a different flavor. Or give the IDS-1 a limited deployment time or at the very least be none resupplyable.

[Skates]

but think about camp gibraltar, on many places, it can cover the entire width of the map, just a single one, preventing anybody from being able to sneak to back flags

1 placed at a flag, can see prety much everything, making the commanders UAV allmost useless


once unlocked, every support will have one, ther allready is (and will be) many support players, in a 64 player camp gibraltar, the entire map will be covered in them, they will be as common as a med box, stealth tactics in the gameplay will be totaly irelivent

I have played with the PDS-1 and if the IDS-1 is similar, I imagine it is, it doesn't have a very large scanning radius. Also, if you are near it. close enough to show up on scan, you can hear it beeping so just look for it and shoot it. As far as changing game play, I don't see it any different than if you have a competent commander. The commander can run Sat-traks regularly and see where the enemy is headed. When I play comander I talk to my squad leaders regulary and tell them when someone is trying to sneak around to cap a back flag and also spot them. At least when you are out of range of the IDS-1 they don't know where you are or where you're going. The commander can just wait a few seconds and run another Sat-trak, see you, and then report it to the squad leads.

[Shalashaska]

I have played with the IDS-1, and i can tell you its range is prety much what i said.

And u have to be within about 1/5th of its total scanning range, to even hear the bleep, or even see the tiny device itself, not that any decent support is just gona drop it in the middle of the open, itl be tucked behind crates and boxes, under railings etc, yal be killed by any member of the enemy team using it to see you, before u have a hope in hells chance of destroying it.

Not that destroying it would make much difference, a support player can throw them around like candy.


Not many people listen to the commander, and many times the commander dusnt even knowtice or care if sum1 has reached the back flags, hes to busy making sure he racks in big bonus points on the front lines.


Most people on the ground however, take knowtice of red dots on ther minimap.

[Durutti]

Does the IDS-1 scan as long as it exists like the PDS-1, or is the scan only for a limited time like the UAV? If it is like the PDS-1 I can't wait to slap a PDS and an IDS on my beloved gunship and have a permanent mobile UAV that I can use to scan whatever area I am flying over. Even more gunship pwnage. mmmmmmm

[TheRealWolfgang]

Does the IDS-1 scan as long as it exists like the PDS-1, or is the scan only for a limited time like the UAV? If it is like the PDS-1 I can't wait to slap a PDS and an IDS on my beloved gunship and have a permanent mobile UAV that I can use to scan whatever area I am flying over. Even more gunship pwnage. mmmmmmm

LOL I was just thinking of the same thing only with a walker instead of a gunship. The top gunner be support, the walker pilot be engineer. Each one pop their respective scanner on the legs of the walker and it's good night. But then again, that would take teamwork and teamwork is what BF is all about I suppose. Still, I'll reserve judgment on the IDS until I see it in action. Although one thing I've always liked about BFs was the ability to sneak around the action and cap a back flag (BF42 and BF:V moreso than the last two, obviously) but with constant portable infantry UAVs it'll be almost impossible to sneak past on a map like Gib where it's chokepoint city. That would force people to go through the meatgrinder, or at the very least make the meatgrinder come to them, all of which is not my style. :p

~Wolfgang

[Casper]

UAV is lame enough, but this is a step too far. I wish Dice would get back to their roots and leave the game up to skill players. This class is already overpowered, now we are giving it a personal UAV... GG DICE.

[Casper]

Two words: suppression sniping... there are many ways to skin a cat... the IDS-1 has its uses but they are limited.... And I tried this thing extensively... it is not the holy grail of invulnerability

Wont work in Titan because you will have no way in hell to even get a shot at him.

[Raidyr]

UAV is lame enough, but this is a step too far. I wish Dice would get back to their roots and leave the game up to skill players. This class is already overpowered, now we are giving it a personal UAV... GG DICE.

Stop crying.

On topic, as a support player, I love the new unlock, but its hardly as useful as some of you guys make out. Remember, support is a dedicated anti-infantry class, so it makes sense it would get anti-infantry gear. Whining about how well support takes out infantry is like whining about how well engineer takes out vehicles. And how assault takes out everything.

[kilroy357]

Even if you have a pocket UAV someone can still sneak up on you in a heavy fire fight. Who looks at their minimap when they can see enemies running around in from of them?
-For the record I play mainly assault.

[l2edl2azor]

Unbalanced ??? I do not see how. Everyone will have the same opportunity to use it. One squad with a person that has support can deploy one and defend a silo/titan/cp more effectively. Those who are opposed to it do not have to use it. I see no difference between it and the Otus.

[Shalashaska]

not unbalanced team vs team, unbalanced kit vs kit

and it allso affects the balance of different play styles, making stealth and ambush tactics alot less effective

[tonks950]

Just one clarification because I've never used either DS-1, but does it reveal units for everyone on the map or just people in your squad?

[Vreki]

Unbalanced ??? I do not see how. Everyone will have the same opportunity to use it. One squad with a person that has support can deploy one and defend a silo/titan/cp more effectively. Those who are opposed to it do not have to use it. I see no difference between it and the Otus.

Because the OTUS is a team tool, that is only usable by a squad which has to stay rather close together. I promotes teamwork which is a good thing, so of course it sees very limited use :rolleyes: . And everybody shoots the guy with the big tin hat.

The IDS-1 is a "me" tool, it doesn't require anybody but the support dude. It encourages camping as it is a stationary tool. If the pulsemeter was balanced, how is this not overpowered? 360 degree scan without letting go of your weapon.

As has been said before, it can break the class balance and ruin any chances of flanking and other stealth tactics, both which currently works fine.


I haven't seen it used much in 1.19b, but that could be because most dedicated support players resent the Ganz, and wont unlock it just to test the IDS-1.

[Biotech2142]

My main concern about the portable UAV is that once you stick it in a tank, walker or apc, you don't need to worry that much for hidden recons or engineers defending the silo/flag. Those are usually the defending classes because they are capable to kill armor.

You got a mobile AUV scanning whatever you drive across the map.

If a SL use it combined with accipter while driving an APC, infantry will have a serious time and you will need the help of an armor or a commander to defeat it most of the time or APC mortar and the accipter will own the defenders.

[Casper]

I tell you between this and the APM issue, this game is going to suck post 1.2 patch. I was going to get the booster but now I am more likly to just stop playing all together.

[Mr_Zaz]

Stop crying.

On topic, as a support player, I love the new unlock, but its hardly as useful as some of you guys make out. Remember, support is a dedicated anti-infantry class, so it makes sense it would get anti-infantry gear. Whining about how well support takes out infantry is like whining about how well engineer takes out vehicles. And how assault takes out everything.

If you'll just hand you EMP nades back, that'd be great, ta.

[Mr_Zaz]

This unlock worries me a lot.

Usually I'll play assault (defib/rockets/beacon), usually on city maps.
I spend a lot of my time, finding a way around the big firefights to drop a beacon for my squad so we can hit the enemy, spawn campers ;), from behind or take a flag to give the team somewhere to spawn.

While there always existed the possibility of a cmdr scan spotting us or a UAV over my head, at least they were not permanently available. indeed the cmdr assets can be destroyed.

Assuming that we actually play the game to have fun I have real problems understanding the thought process behind this item, especially the lack of an obvious counter. Sure it can be destroyed - but you will have to be in range of it's scan to do that, assuming that you can even find it.

I try my best to hide my beacon in unusual places, but it will eventually be found, it has to have a view of the sky and the people falling from the sky tend to hint at the general area.

So even if you can find the scanner thats been hidden under god knows what. Remeber that you're liklely going to have most of the enemy team targeting you, because you're on the minimap/net bat. The killer is that even when you go down in a hail of bullets but have miraculously blown the IDS with your dying shot. The support guy, just drops another one in it's place...
rinse and repeat...

The idea is quite cool - I don't mind portable UAV but FFS give it a V.short life span. Say, 10secs, more than enough to help you get the drop on someone but not enough to make anyone omnipotent.

I really don't want to have to play support to even the odds...

z

Incidently - not a newb, nor a vehicle whore...
http://battlefield.ea.com/battlefield/bf2142/PlayerSummary.aspx?Lang=us&PID=81527655&SrchName=&Profiles=

[BurnerDuece]

I think Vreki said it best especially when you consider the IDS-1 is infinitely resupplyable- "If the pulsemeter was balanced, how is this not overpowered?"

Maybe they could buff Advanced Active Camo so that you stay invisible longer AND secondard fire makes you invisible the normal amount of time but you also do not show up on UAV+IDS-1

Like I've said b/f nothing is going to be done about it for this release but if supporters can do their best to absolutely terrorize the battlefield with it then maybe DICE will wise up for their first patch. One can hope :laugh:

[Casper]

Dice has never removed an item from the game once it is release no matter how broke it is. In fact most of the time they go and make it worse or continue it to the next game like they did claymores and UAV. Since this is an unlock, it has even less of a chance to be removed or tweaked once the pack is released and NONE of us can escape it because it is coming to the core maps.

This is EXACTLY like the M60/Law powered kit from BFV and they do not even see it. Somebody at Dice must play a lot of support...

[Raidyr]

1) It was M60 and M79, and the M14 and Bazooka, neither of which was overpowered.

2) If you are going to quit, just do it, no sense in posting over and over how bad you think this game is and how cheap APMs and SENTRY guns are.

You remind me of those Nothern Emos :laugh:

[TheRealWolfgang]

1) It was M60 and M79, and the M14 and Bazooka, neither of which was overpowered.

Actually it started out that the M60 was with the AT kit (the LAW one), so in the initial release of BF:V the M60 trooper had a sniper-accurate machine gun with 100 rounds, AND AT capabilities in the LAW. They patched it later to put the M60 with the M79 and give the LAW trooper an M14, in addition to making the RPD and M60 more LMG-ish and less assault rifle-y (yes, I just made up BOTH those words, so no dictionary checks required :D ).

Now for the IDS, if it's anything like the PDS, the accipiter drone won't do anything about it because the PDS doesn't put vehicles on the squad's netbat, only on the UAV/minimap, and the accipiter doesn't shoot at things not on the netbat (unless they changed that in the patch as well). The Pulsemeter, however, did add enemies to the netbat, which is why it worked so well in tandem with the accipiter.

~Wolfgang

[Shalashaska]

^^^ tbh thats a rather stupid comment raidyr


if nobody ever complained about things, nothing would ever get improoved

[Raidyr]

Actually it started out that the M60 was with the AT kit (the LAW one), so in the initial release of BF:V the M60 trooper had a sniper-accurate machine gun with 100 rounds, AND AT capabilities in the LAW. They patched it later to put the M60 with the M79 and give the LAW trooper an M14, in addition to making the RPD and M60 more LMG-ish and less assault rifle-y (yes, I just made up BOTH those words, so no dictionary checks required :D ).


~Wolfgang

Thanks for the clarification, I only got BFV when it came out in the delux box a few months after launch :)

[Casper]

The BFV reference was valid and not exagerated. The M60 was a sniper rifle with 100 rounds full auto. Did not matter if you were standing, running, jumping, or whatever. Almost all games had about 80% of the players on the US side running around using that kit the entire round.

With these new changes, I think we will see the same thing once again with support.

And Raidyr, I do not want to leave the game. I just do not want these drastic changes done which will utterly ruin it! I paid for the game that I had the demo for. I knew about the good and the bad with it before I got it. The bad was not so bad that I did not get the game, but now they are taking 2 of the worst aspects of this game and making them 100x as bad in the core game. I want to keep playing 2142 as it is right now as I would take the bugs over the horrible gameplay changes any day.

[BurnerDuece]

I'm going to continue playing b/c I think the system DICE has in place works. They monitor gameplay and actively balance with updates and patches. I'm just not looking forward to being right about the IDS-1 :( In the mean time I'll be using my assault kit 100% of the time rather than a more 50/50 spread between assault and recon.

[Raidyr]

^^^ tbh thats a rather stupid comment raidyr


if nobody ever complained about things, nothing would ever get improoved

tbh I am sick of people whining about stuff that is obvious. You dont like APMs? Old. You dont like Sentry guns? Heard it before. There is a very clear line between not liking something while stating your opinion, and downright bitching/crying/whining about it.

If you think my comment was stupid, atleast spell improved correctly, thanks

[Shalashaska]

my awful spelling has nuthing to do with anything :S


and its not an old subject, sure moaning about sentry turrets and apms now is useless because its long gone and never gona get changed, but NS isnt even out, and this happens to be a rather large problem with it


complaining about the people complaining will achieve even less, so wudnt it be best to just pass over the topic


anyway i dont want an argument, but the people here can voice ther opinions on the problem how they choose tbh

[Raidyr]

my awful spelling has nuthing to do with anything :S


and its not an old subject, sure moaning about sentry turrets and apms now is useless because its long gone and never gona get changed, but NS isnt even out, and this happens to be a rather large problem with it


complaining about the people complaining will achieve even less, so wudnt it be best to just pass over the topic


anyway i dont want an argument, but the people here can voice ther opinions on the problem how they choose tbh

I see your point, and I agree, but what is the point in arguing about APMs over and over and over. Idiots dont like them, smart players love them, enough said, no more threads k?

[Shalashaska]

iv never made 1 thread about apms, and it isnt the subject of this one ether


the subject of this thread is an unlock in a booster pack, that isnt out yet, but happens to be in an open beta, i think it makes sence to voice and discuss any problems reguarding anything

if u find it anoying, then u dont have to post, or even read it, prety simple realy


anyway im off

[PassTheChips]

Stop crying.

On topic, as a support player, I love the new unlock, but its hardly as useful as some of you guys make out. Remember, support is a dedicated anti-infantry class, so it makes sense it would get anti-infantry gear. Whining about how well support takes out infantry is like whining about how well engineer takes out vehicles. And how assault takes out everything.

This is why a support has the pulsemeter my friend. That is a very fair unlock thats only covers a 90 degree angle that you are facing and has a reload time to stop you from spamming it plus you have to be holding it.

The IDS-1 allows you to have a 360 degree angle scan, ulimited time, you can see every person around you and you can hold a weapon. This is more useful than a COMMANDER ASSET which can be destroyed and takes a supply drop or another player to repair. The IDS-1 is permanent until destroyed, is very hard to even find ( i mean it so small just place in a corner and no one will see it) plus the support can resuply it and lay another one even if in all dim chances you did find thier IDS-1. Also it removes all forms of stealth in this game known to us. Which is a key factor in this game in my honest opinion.

You could argue both teams can use this unlock so who cares?

Well actually it is more useful to one side more thena others. I mean when you just start playing Gibralter will the PAC really need the IDS-1? Where as the EU would completely be benefited becuae the PAC players would no longer be able to sneak up against the EU to capture there back flags. This means because that the EU has more dominate flag control meaning the PAC will lose more tickets and will eventually lose.

Unless the EU side does not have a support character but you and me both know that is not case;).

Also I do not think that sentry guns or APM's are cheap. It just that most people dont play engy so most people arent there to defuse the mines. How bout instead of complaining about APM's you just crouch around the corners with your useful defusers :). I just never have problems with the APM's they just dont bug me :).

Also if your a vehicle whore one could consider the motion mines completly cheap because they track you.

oh as a side note... Can you defuse EMP mines?

[Raidyr]

You make it sound like everyone is going to drop them all over the place xD

[M*A*S*H]

Whilst I understand people's concerns, having the used the IDS quite a bit, I can say that I don't feel it's overpowered. Nor have I seen it being spammed either. Had it slapped up big moving diamonds on your hud, then yes it most certainly would need nerfing, but having to keep an eye on the minimap isn't easy at the best times and takes considerable effort. My main concern would be being able to have two down at once, but hopefully they'll fix that come release. A possible solution, and one I wouldn't mind, would be as people have suggested to stop it being resupplied.


T The IDS-1 is permanent until destroyed, is very hard to even find ( i mean it so small just place in a corner and no one will see it)

Luckily it makes loud and continous beeping noise. I've destroyed them many times and had people blow mine up on almost as many occasions. Over my dead body of course (literally).

[Biotech2142]

Here is another situation where the lil thing is overpowered again:

When defending titan, stick one in the wall at the titan guns controls.

You will have a permanent and 90% indestructible uav detecting corner by corner the only thing to worry about while shields are down: enemy infantry.

I believe the EMP strike is the only thing capable to destroy it on that area and we know that EMP takes minutes to recharge while reloading the IDS-1 just takes few seconds.

[ThirtyOughtSix]

The only problem I have with this unlock is allowing them to stick to drones. Vehicles? sure np. Vehicles can't go everywhere. The squad leader drones CAN.... and they make the IDS-1 portable. Which defeats the purpose that it is a deployable.... which, IMHO, is the only thing balancing the IDS-1 other then it's short scan range.

All they have to do is make it so they DO NOT stick to squad leader drones and then they won't be overpowered.... even if they PICK it back up and move it, they can't have a mini-infantry-uav following them around while they move... they have to redeploy it.

DICE, please listen to this thread... this WILL become a problem (like support doesnt already have enouph detection abilities already) in the future.... and all that is really needed to stop it is to make it so you CANNOT stick it to squad leader drones. If you allow them to stick them on drones, then you just defeated the whole REASON why the Otus squad leader drone doesn't already have a LIVE scan on it (it refreshes thier netbat every few seconds instead)....which of course, is to balance it.

[M*A*S*H]

Just found out that the sniper decoy gets rid of your uav/netbat/support netbat signature whilst you're in it's 60m radius. I'm guessing it'll do the same for the IDS and Otus. A questionable unlock just turned into a rather useful one.

[Brood+98]

Just found out that the sniper decoy gets rid of your uav/netbat/support netbat signature whilst you're in it's 60m radius. I'm guessing it'll do the same for the IDS and Otus. A questionable unlock just turned into a rather useful one.

wow, that just got my interest, not completely useless afterall. but i dont see how this affects us poor assault boys :( just get rid of the damn thing, it makes so many other unlocks obsolete, and has so many balance issues, its just not worth it. i dunno, give support a upgrade that increases the amount of time they can shoot their gun before it over-heats or something, a permanent upgrade like all the other classes.

[BurnerDuece]

Just found out that the sniper decoy gets rid of your uav/netbat/support netbat signature whilst you're in it's 60m radius. I'm guessing it'll do the same for the IDS and Otus. A questionable unlock just turned into a rather useful one.

NICE! I'm thinkin RDX booby trap :evil: Or Active Camo Knife Fest

Also I think that removing the ability to deploy on the Otus will not be sufficient (though a blatent overpowering that should be addressed). Since the unit is infinitely resupplyable a soldier can just deploy another one when he leaves the old scan area. Supporters are usually firing in a protected prone position, moving from point to point dropping IDS after IDS as they go won't be much of an inconvienience.

I also just read that they can deploy two at once! I mean come on this is just getting ridiculous. If DICE had said they were giving supporters TWO infinitely lasting UAVs ppl would go ape $hit, but since its a beacon and doesn't detect vehicles its now balanced?

Also I don't think those playing the beta patch are seeing the full usage of the IDS b/c no one can permanently unlock it yet. Only those who both have the Ganz and a field unlock get to use it at this point. Also you have to figure most that know about the beta are playing it get a feel for how all the new unlocks function so they're not going to use the same field unlock on the same thing over and over when there's new stuff to test and play with. Once NS is released ppl will be able to have it 100% of the time and we'll get an idea of how widely it will be deployed.

[M*A*S*H]

wow, that just got my interest, not completely useless afterall. but i dont see how this affects us poor assault boys :( just get rid of the damn thing, it makes so many other unlocks obsolete, and has so many balance issues, its just not worth it. i dunno, give support a upgrade that increases the amount of time they can shoot their gun before it over-heats or something, a permanent upgrade like all the other classes.

I don't think it has much of an effect on the assault class. I've still been gunned down by people I knew were coming whilst playing support and vice versa whilst playing assault. Aside from that, what unlocks, apart from the pulse meter does it make obsolete? None that I can think of anyway, especially since there's already the support netbat upgade (camo). Whilst I do think it's odd that support is the only class that gets two items, the engineer has arguably the best unlocks, since the MMB also defuses apms,rdx and can kill infantry by hitting them with motion mines. Had assault and recon gotten better unlocks, I don't think the IDS would be as much of an issue e.g recon silencer. You don't see any engineers complaining do you, just assault and recon and they got the worst unlocks. (I'm primarily recon so I've no support bias)


Also I don't think those playing the beta patch are seeing the full usage of the IDS b/c no one can permanently unlock it yet. Only those who both have the Ganz and a field unlock get to use it at this point. Also you have to figure most that know about the beta are playing it get a feel for how all the new unlocks function so they're not going to use the same field unlock on the same thing over and over when there's new stuff to test and play with. Once NS is released ppl will be able to have it 100% of the time and we'll get an idea of how widely it will be deployed.

Remember, the open beta wasn't the only beta....

[Shalashaska]

You make it sound like everyone is going to drop them all over the place xD

if you have played the open beta, then you would know that is prety much the case


and ther only avalable as field unlocks, soon they will be permanantly unlockable, and as supports by far most powerful item, they will be equiped most of the time, iv played many camp gibraltar rounds with it, and its dropped as often as an ammo box, at least by the people who have it

u have unlimited number of them, u get to sumwere, drop it, fight ya way thru people, get to sumwere else, drop another one, fight ya way thru people, get to a flag, drop it, defend against attackers, moove on, drop another one, and when u die, it stays ther for a while, helping all your team, untill u drop yet another one


think of how many support there are on 1 side, in a 64 player camp gibraltar game, bout 10 at least id say, now, 10 IDS-1's can prety much cover the whole map with permanent UAV detection

once ther avalable to all, and people realise how powerful they are, they prety much will be all over the place

[vbl]

I wish they'd remove all of the legal wallhackery from the game and make stealth a viable element again.

No more training wheels!

[l2edl2azor]

^^^ tbh thats a rather stupid comment raidyr


if nobody ever complained about things, nothing would ever get improoved

Complaining doesn't solve or improve anything....Ever!!! Complaining doesn't cause people to change things... Ever!!!
Presenting an opinion follow by a string of factual data will get peoples attention and get things changed.
Don't think that anything a gamer has complained about has been fixed, improved or removed because of complaining. Coincidence is the closest thing you'll ever come to. If a change happens, it's because someone out there....submitted some viable statistics, and that person was reputable and had a greater frame of reference than you or anyone else that has complained before you and it was also probably part of their job. If you think that person has time or would even think to come here and read about your inadequacies, I would guess you're wrong.

[l2edl2azor]

if you have played the open beta, then you would know that is prety much the case


and ther only avalable as field unlocks, soon they will be permanantly unlockable, and as supports by far most powerful item, they will be equiped most of the time, iv played many camp gibraltar rounds with it, and its dropped as often as an ammo box, at least by the people who have it

u have unlimited number of them, u get to sumwere, drop it, fight ya way thru people, get to sumwere else, drop another one, fight ya way thru people, get to a flag, drop it, defend against attackers, moove on, drop another one, and when u die, it stays ther for a while, helping all your team, untill u drop yet another one


think of how many support there are on 1 side, in a 64 player camp gibraltar game, bout 10 at least id say, now, 10 IDS-1's can prety much cover the whole map with permanent UAV detection

once ther avalable to all, and people realise how powerful they are, they prety much will be all over the place

Then you should use the ones that your team drops. I see no unfairness. What I do see is people moving slower and using teamwork to avoid getting "popped". I am so happy!!!

[Raidyr]

I agree with Red Razor, but to put in my own opinion:

All you use is the 64 player Gibraltar example. Let me tell you something though: THats not Battlefield. It is basically Karkand with less stat-padding medics. If you are going to play 64 player Gibraltar, of all the maps, you might as well join the idiots who whine about grenades and claymores in BF2.

Really, I can't believe people actually play with 63 other people in a map that is sometimes the size of a Titan and then go and complain about stuff...

[BurnerDuece]

Complaining doesn't solve or improve anything....Ever!!! Complaining doesn't cause people to change things... Ever!!!
Presenting an opinion follow by a string of factual data will get peoples attention and get things changed.
Don't think that anything a gamer has complained about has been fixed, improved or removed because of complaining. Coincidence is the closest thing you'll ever come to. If a change happens, it's because someone out there....submitted some viable statistics, and that person was reputable and had a greater frame of reference than you or anyone else that has complained before you and it was also probably part of their job. If you think that person has time or would even think to come here and read about your inadequacies, I would guess you're wrong.

We're presenting possible scenarios of IDS-1 abuse. We're discussing how game play will change with the IDS-1 as part of the next expansion. There are a few here just spouting dogma but most are making intelligent comments. If you don't want to be part of this discussion why don't you just stfu and post somewhere else.

A$$

[steelfallenangel]

what the hell are all you complaining about?

Firstly that scanner thingy isnt realiable at all and has pathetic range

Second the support class isnt uber long range snipers can still take him out

Thridly Haza finally that floating gun will shoot at things since the scanner has such crap range compared to the gun and the fact that it dosnt shoot at targets you even spot im all for i

Lastly dont you guys remenber in BF2 armored fury those new copters acted as mobile UAVs and those things were armed with twin miniguns I dont remenber anyone crying bloody murder with those

And you guys are especially forgeting that this unlock is above something most people think is crap the Garz

[Vreki]

And you guys are especially forgeting that this unlock is above something most people think is crap the Garz

So what, most of us had to unlock crap to get the tools we want.
Most people will have 4-5 extra unlocks after a few hours of NS play, the awards look ridiculously easy.

Armoured fury was a contained booster pack, don't like it? then don't play it, no effect at all on the core game.

But the stuff they bring in now will affect the core game, and in aspects that nobody asked for.

More scanners? Really, who wanted that?
And they are stationary when defence already has the advantage in this game.
The one place where scanners were really needed was to keep snipers in check. That will now be crippled by the snipers having the new decoy.

[steelfallenangel]

the new decoy i bet will actually be picked up by scanners really sending you for a trip

I guess in all fairness it should take some time to setup/warmup and not just be something you can throw down on the ground while running

[Minmaster]

if you deploy the accipiter drone and attach a IDS on it, wouldn't that just pwn everyone by itself? it would spot and engage all on its own, kinda like how you use the accipiter with hearbeat sensor except you don't have to click the sensor all the time and have your gun out. the IDS will make hearbeat sensor obsolete especially if it can be easily picked up like the PDS and be resupplyable.

[Ghost 1800]

... will the sniper decoy apply to the IDS?

[RMcLeod]

if you deploy the accipiter drone and attach a IDS on it, wouldn't that just pwn everyone by itself? it would spot and engage all on its own, kinda like how you use the accipiter with hearbeat sensor except you don't have to click the sensor all the time and have your gun out. the IDS will make hearbeat sensor obsolete especially if it can be easily picked up like the PDS and be resupplyable.

Incorrect. The accipiter only fires at enemies on Netbat, the IDS doesn't put them on netbat, it shows them like a UAV scan (i.e. on your minimap as a dot).

[RMcLeod]

... will the sniper decoy apply to the IDS?

Yes it will, so a clever recon would be able to sneak past an IDS.

[Casper]

Once this gets added... it will never get removed. It is still not to late to remove it! Please please please remove this legal hack!!!

[Rick Astley]

Otus is also a legal wallhack and still people don't use them often.

And because the fact the guys who don't buy NS will have to unlock it through Field Upgrades you also will not see it very often.

[Casper]

Otus is different. Reason is you must have at least 2 people in your squad to use it and they are the only ones who see it. It is also a giant hovering "Kill me please" sign above your head. This new addition gives the most powerfull and dominate class a new toy that buts him on level with support from BFV. He can toss down UAV and allow his entire team to see it. Unlike the UAV in the sky, this one can be hidden and most wont even know it is there. Instead of just one in the sky that must be recharged by the commander, every class can toss one down and considering 70% of players in games are Support, the entire map will be covered.

Its a shame Dice is hell bent on taking skill out of the game at every chance they get. Hopefully one day we will get a real team to come along and make a game in the true spirit of the original BF1942. Until that time... I am going back to mods.

[BurnerDuece]

The patch is released, its in the game now, its never coming out- period.

I'm going to try the Recon Decoy to turn their assumed gods eye view against them at the front lines. But even if the tactic works I'm not looking forward to giving up my RDX (and thus loosing overall killing power) just so I can counter the newest Support Kit Buff :( Also, even if the Decoy can be used effectively you still have to call down the wrath of the defending team and THEN evade their sight as they come to kill you. It was hard enough getting past the front when they had no idea you were there, and now the job has become near impossible. The only thing I see the Decoy being used for is setting stat padding traps whereby you sit cloaked in a protected position and snipe badguys one at a time as they come to destroy your decoy. This tactic gains nothing for your team and won't work on the same enemy twice- all you're doing is giving away your position after the first kill.

Also having to fill both your unlock slots with non-weapons (AC+Decoy) just to put stealth back in the game is ridiculous. At the end of all this I see myself just playing Assault kit and not touching Recon much anymore :(

Maybe DICE could make one of the Recon items a passive unlock. When you think about it every other class has passive unlock items that they use on the battlefield to help their killing ability- Assault/Medic Hub Support/Ammo Hub Engi/Repair Tool (the 4x zoom only works with the sniper rifles so that's a passive SNIPER unlock and not a RECON unlock) Make the decoy a passive unlock and I'll be passified :D

In anycase here's hoping the IDS-1's potential isn't realized on most servers! :wall:

[Older-OMO]

All they need to do is add a time limiter or decay function to the IDS. They might also consider not being able to resupply it like the UAV grenades. As of now, I can put one down, resupply myself and put another down as I move to a new location...

[Skates]

Played last night with a buddy in my squad that was using it. The scan radius is small so it really isn't overpowered. It's nice to slap on the outside of a building on a map like Gibraltar to see where guys are inside but that doesn't help with the sniper that's going to headshot you from 100+m away or that the guys inside might be using it too and already know you're coming. The balance is still fine.

[Raidyr]

Otus is different. Reason is you must have at least 2 people in your squad to use it and they are the only ones who see it. It is also a giant hovering "Kill me please" sign above your head. This new addition gives the most powerfull and dominate class a new toy that buts him on level with support from BFV. He can toss down UAV and allow his entire team to see it. Unlike the UAV in the sky, this one can be hidden and most wont even know it is there. Instead of just one in the sky that must be recharged by the commander, every class can toss one down and considering 70% of players in games are Support, the entire map will be covered.

Its a shame Dice is hell bent on taking skill out of the game at every chance they get. Hopefully one day we will get a real team to come along and make a game in the true spirit of the original BF1942. Until that time... I am going back to mods.

Hehe, I bet you run around with your Voss, AR rockets, and defibulator, while whoring your walker.

[Casper]

Hehe, I bet you run around with your Voss, AR rockets, and defibulator, while whoring your walker.

HaHa, I will admit most of that. However I have not unlocked the Voss yet. But I do go mostly assault. I will say that the APM's help me rack up some revives fast. :laugh: