My proposed changed for the gunship.

[PatrioticWhale51]

See, in my clan, I usually play the role of air-support in a game but it's hard to actually support anything with this. I don't see how the choppers in the past (BF2) were far superior to the gunships of the future. So, I think these should be changed.

1) A button to switch from hover mode to flight mode. See, as the AA missiles lock onto you from the other side of the map I'm often trying to evade the lock and this usually results in me flying low or going under bridges. But the problem is, if you get to close to the ground your landing gears pop out and you get that jerky laggy scrapping wopply effect which usually makes you crash.

2) Power up the rockets just a little. It's like throwing paper cups at tanks.

3) Give the rockets and gunner seat MG some more slash damage. It's next to impossible to kill a group of infantry with this thing.

4) Either return the TV missile to how it was and you adjust the flight path with clicks or make it like it was on the bombers in BF2 so it just locks on. Maybe because you hover it could take longer to lock on.

I think those would hardly destroy gameplay and it would make the gunship a useful vehicle.

[DeZaStR]

As a fellow gunship pilot, I have to disagree with some of your points.

1.) Not sure what you mean here. In my experience, the landing gear doesn't come down unless you are moving slow. In full throttle forward flight, they shouldn't come down no matter how low you are. Can someone confirm this?

2.) The primary role of the rockets are for air to air. However, 9 direct hits to a tank or APC will set it on fire, and 10 will destroy them. I frequently destroy armor even when I don't have a gunner.

3.) I kind of agree with this, but the changes would have to be carefully made. Too much splash damage would make the gunship incredibly unbalanced. However, I do agree that it seems silly to unleash a full volley of rockets at an enemy soldier on the ground only to have him smile and continue running away after they've all missed.

4.) No way. The TVGM is just fine the way it is. It just takes practice and a little tinkering with your settings to get it where you want it. Try turning your sensitivity down if you need better control. Also, the idea of making the TVGM self-guided like the BF2 bomber is rediculous. It would make the gunship too unbalanced.

[|D|-Max]

4. and when you do hit the tank it dos not kill, I was on a server with my clan I hit a jeep with it and it did not kill it I asked how much health he had he said 20!

2. thats true

1.AA missiles lock onto you from the other side of the map I hate that so much and it dos not help when theres a AA gun on half of the flags and the walkers

[Rogue Warrior]

.........3) Give the rockets and gunner seat MG some more slash damage. It's next to impossible to kill a group of infantry with this thing.


I agree 100%

[Stemnin]

The gunner's MG is fine, as long as the gunner don't miss.

TVGM's I would like to see a normal BF2 control there. No upping splash damage or damage of it.

As for the landing gear, it's the same thing with the F-35's from BF2.

The wobble effect sucks, I agree.

I rather they fix the PAC gunship first.

[Elementalist]

Blah, blah, blah, I want my favourite vehicle to be more powerful, blah, blah, blah.

Sorry to be negative and sarcastic, but the gunship is a powerful and highly mobile weapons platform. More powerful missiles? A tank can be taken out with one salvo if accurate in seconds. That is like an engineer except there is next to zero chance of the tank killing you. It's difficult to kill a 'group' of infantry? Since when would it be a good idea to give one person the capability of easily taking out multiple other players?

'Pilot' isn't a kit. You're not supposed to be spending the whole time racking up kills in the gunship. It's a tool like any other and a very useful one, but if they were to make the gunship in any way more effective or 'real' the game would rapidly become a race to the gunships following by gunship pilots fighting each other between blowing the crap out of anyone else - a bit like the jet fighters in BF2 *shudder*

If the gunships had serious problems, noone would fly them. In my experience they get plenty of use and plenty of kills.

[Trippet]

^^^
Agree with all of that.

[RMcLeod]

The gunship is lethal as it is, in the right hands. The gunner MG is fine as is, it's so accurate it doesn't need any more splash damage. The TVGM is fine as it is, just takes practice (nothing more satisfying than taking out an enemy gunship / air transport with your TVGM). As a good pilot you should be letting your gunner take armour out, and moving in with rockets if he fails, at which point a less than full salvo should take it out. If flying low the gear does not come out only if you're trying to hover.

Another tip is to attach a PDS to the outside of your gunship, gives the enemy less chance of sneaking up on you.

[kamikaze cow]

As someone who uses the gunship alot, i wish alot the things on your list would happen, but as many have stated here, it would probably break the balance. However, i do agree that the AA range is WAY too long. Whats the point of emping the gunship, if you cant even see it to shoot it down with the normal aa fire? The one thing that i really wish we could have though is that the shield on the gunship actually protected you from AA, instead of having it all go right through it.... Also, maybe a faster spawn time.... :D

[Durutti]

See, in my clan, I usually play the role of air-support in a game but it's hard to actually support anything with this. I don't see how the choppers in the past (BF2) were far superior to the gunships of the future. So, I think these should be changed.

1) A button to switch from hover mode to flight mode. See, as the AA missiles lock onto you from the other side of the map I'm often trying to evade the lock and this usually results in me flying low or going under bridges. But the problem is, if you get to close to the ground your landing gears pop out and you get that jerky laggy scrapping wopply effect which usually makes you crash.

2) Power up the rockets just a little. It's like throwing paper cups at tanks.

3) Give the rockets and gunner seat MG some more slash damage. It's next to impossible to kill a group of infantry with this thing.

4) Either return the TV missile to how it was and you adjust the flight path with clicks or make it like it was on the bombers in BF2 so it just locks on. Maybe because you hover it could take longer to lock on.

I think those would hardly destroy gameplay and it would make the gunship a useful vehicle.

I use the gunship almost exclusively except on maps like Gibraltar. I can say that the only thing I wish DICE would fix is the missile tracking on the Talon, because missiles usually fly right towards it and veer up or down at the last second for reasons no one seems to know. I have no problems flying low under bridges but I suggest you fly high, not low when avoiding AA unless the AA is the SAAW and your shields are not recharged. That is the only time I recommend getting low and behind something to break the lock. The missiles are not like shooting paper cups at tanks. Each missile does 10 hp of damage to the tank. Seeing as how you have 10 missiles and it takes about 3 seconds to unload all ten, you can reasonably expect to kill a tank in three seconds, unless it puts its shield up and you have to circle around for a second pass at it. A tank kill in 3 seconds and 60 rockets per load is hardly weak. The splash damage on the chaingun is insane as it is, and I routinely kill infantry with rockets it just takes a little practice.

However I do agree the TV missile controls should go back to how it was in BF2, with the mouse clicks to guide it, but keep it weak like it is now. It shouldn't destroy armour in one shot but should severely weaken it for the pilot to finish up.

The biggest issue regarding the gunships is the vast superiority of the Talon over the Doragon due to the fact that the Talon deflects most missiles shot at it while the Doragon is a missile magnet. I have emailed DICE several times about this but of course I have received no replies from them because they just don't care.

[Ghiblian]

I disagree with all your points. =P

1) Never had the landing gear issue. And a toggle would get annoying really fast considering how maneuverable the gunship currently is.
2) I think it's pretty balanced to have the missiles not be able to destroy vehicles too easily (a skilled pilot can get 9-10, and most vehicles are damaged after a while, so it's just right in my opinion for a weapon made against air vehicles to be not extremely effective against all vehicles). It promotes teamwork (or soloing if you can pull it off). Or at least, it's supposed to promote that kind of stuff. That's why you have the TVMissiles.
3) I think the gunner MG is absolutely amazing. o.O As for gunship rockets against infantry, while it is unrealistic for it to do so little damage to infantry, it CAN kill them. And that's not even what it's made to do. You really shouldn't be wasting your rockets on infantry if you have a gunner (which you should). Remember that only a fully volley of rockets is very useful, so even if you use one or two rockets out of ten on a target, the rest is pretty much wasted.
4) I think the TVMissile is pretty balanced as it requires quite a bit of skill to use but does substantial damage.

[Ghiblian]

I use the gunship almost exclusively except on maps like Gibraltar.

Wow! Where'd you find a gunship on that map? =P That would be prettttty sweet (assuming you took out the enemy walkers).

It's funny though, because sometimes people will be spotting things. They'll do it manually so they can select anything pretty much. Sometimes, I'll see on Camp G. "Enemy gunship spotted!" and then the gunship icon show up on the map. It's rather amusing.

[The Auriga]

2) Power up the rockets just a little. It's like throwing paper cups at tanks.

A gunship can already destroy tanks faster than a walker or a tank can and with the TV missile tanks go down in a single shot.

[[TW] Alixsar]

Gunships are already deadly in the right hands, and they're not overpowered like they were in BF2 (at least I think they were, jets especially). I don't think they need to change anything.

[BigFellor]

Funny, as a gunner with a clan mate as my pilot, I disagree with pretty much every point you made. Whats your server IP? I'll hop on and show you how easy it is to own an entire team with the gunship.

[Deesies]

1: a button to switch to a true hover mode would be nice.

2: One salvo of rockets kill any tank or apc. 2 kills a mech I believe

3: I have no problem with the MG. No to rocket splash. They'll just be spammed to hell against infantry ala BF2.

I believe the TVGM has a pretty big splash against infantry unless they changed it.

4: bind movement to the keys. Makes it much easier. I have absolutely no problem with the TVGMs after a little practice.

However, I don't like how they speed up over distance. The damage they do to a vehicle doesn't really warrant this penalty.

[TheDesert_Fox]

It shouldn't destroy armour in one shot but should severely weaken it for the pilot to finish up.
Never do this! Pilots are kills whores already (most are), weakening the gunner so the greedy pilot can get even more is stupid.

The rockets take 10 hits to kill because ground targets are for the gunner, that's why the gunners weapons for the most part aim downward and the pilot's aim forward and lock onto air targets

[Durutti]

Never do this! Pilots are kills whores already (most are), weakening the gunner so the greedy pilot can get even more is stupid.

The rockets take 10 hits to kill because ground targets are for the gunner, that's why the gunners weapons for the most part aim downward and the pilot's aim forward and lock onto air targets

uh, no

that's why you can angle your nose down and easily pull out of a dive. you are meant to attack ground targets with the gunship. it takes two tv missiles to kill any armor. just hovering there and waiting for your gunner to attack twice with the tv missile is just about the worst idea i've heard for piloting the gunship.

[Ghiblian]

I always get way more kills than the pilot, attributing to the fact that infantry is so much easier to take down than armor. The pilots get most of the armor kills when I play with them because I get to fire my TVmissile way sooner than he can fire accurately his gunship missiles, but it works just perfectly.

[TheDesert_Fox]

IF anything TV missiles are too weak, you cant with any ease hit a weak spot on a vehicle for a kill.. IMO, make a TV missile as powerful as Pilum, softspot hit's a kill, anything else is good damage. The TV missile is already aimed down while the pilot flies straight because, yes, the gunship is meant to hit ground targets, with the gunner if there is one though. That way the pilot can fly straight over, have one missile hit, then fly by the opposite direction for the kill when it takes to hits. For air targets go for it, the gunner is a spotter in those, nothing more, nothing less.

[DeZaStR]

A gunship can already destroy tanks faster than a walker or a tank can and with the TV missile tanks go down in a single shot.
The TVGM is NOT a one-shot kill against tanks (or any armor for that matter). It takes two every time. If there is a way to one-shot (full health) tanks with it, I'd love to hear it! :)
For air targets go for it, the gunner is a spotter in those, nothing more, nothing less.
Are you kidding me? While the pilot may be better suited to take down air targets due to their position and viewpoint, the TVGM is just as lethal against air as it is ground.

[MachineMadness]

give is us more armour.... thats it.

[MaTth1as]

4) Either return the TV missile to how it was and you adjust the flight path with clicks or make it like it was on the bombers in BF2 so it just locks on. Maybe because you hover it could take longer to lock on.


amen, this tv guided missle is very much different, it still can be used but it sucks big time, if they changed the tv missle back to how it was in bf2, i would kiss dice/ea's feet

[Ghiblian]

The TV missile can destroy tanks in one hit by hitting them in the rear. o.O I've done it (and I'm pretty sure the tank was full health because I was an engineer). Besides, you have a TV missile and 10 gunship missiles. If both of you are even decently good, you'll be able to take out any vehicle in one run. I'm not a good gunship pilot by any means, but today I was flying someone around trying to help them get the Aircraft Service Badge, and we went something like 20 /30 - 6 (I crashed a couple times =[). The gunship absolutely dominates infantry because there is very little they can do about it short of carrying a SAAW (which I've actually come to fear quite a bit recently).

[WarGimp]

If there were tweaks to be made to the gunship, I'd rather see it have:

Increased vertical thrust (s key power enhanced) to allow for better lateral control while overing. Currently, the only way to keep a good controlled hover going while you are maneuvering is to tap the W key... but that results in some undesirable effects. Why should the engines be less powerful when in hover configuration?

Extend the Active defense shield a little to reduce the effects of splash damage/EMPs. As is, the shield is only effective against other gunships. Not really a fair trade compared to self guided AA weapons.

A bit of deviation the gunner's cannon would help with hitting infantry without overpowering the gunship or reducing the gun's effectiveness in it's *other* important role (ship to ship combat). I'd also like to see it's damage vs other aircraft ramped up a bit to make fully manned gunships more of a threat to solo craft.

These are my opinions... and what I personally consider to be some good/workable ideas that would help enhance the most interesting, yet under appreciated vehicle in 2142.

[tonks950]

If anything please decrease the spawn time. These are no longer the ownage mobiles that bf2 jets were so why the long wait? For pilot noobs like me the waiting is a killer.

Other than that I think the gunship is pretty balanced (bugs excluded) no matter how much it seems unbalanced.

[Bahraini_Killer]

I totallly totally agre with ya, those gunships can take out tanks APC in no time especially when they use guided missiles.

the monovering of this gunship and the way tp use it even when flying loud altitude is pretty good.

maybe you need to know your distance with the ground while flying.

try to fly this thing over and over again you might reconsider the above points you mentioned.

[Kraxis]

If anything please decrease the spawn time. These are no longer the ownage mobiles that bf2 jets were so why the long wait? For pilot noobs like me the waiting is a killer.

Other than that I think the gunship is pretty balanced (bugs excluded) no matter how much it seems unbalanced.

Agreed... They simply take a bit too long to spawn. Very understandable when were are talking about J-10s, but the Gunship can't be mentioned in the same sentence.

I'm pretty satisfied with the Gunship. I'm a gunner, so naturally I want a few things changed with the weapons. A sec or so better cooldownrate for the gun. I find that when I have 3-4 enemy infantry in plain sight I simply can't take them out before at least 1-2 get to safety becasue my gun heats up. I don't mind that the splash is fairly low, that just means I have to be better at aiming. But the overheat is debilitating at times. But not too much, or that would be silly.

Also, make rear hits with the TV missiles cause more damage, preferably 1 shotable. Why? Because the TV missile is one tough nut to hit with, and to top it off it sets off the alarm. Talk about a nerfed weapon. I only ask for rear shots to be sweet, all others can be normal 60 some damage.
Also reasonably the weaker armour to the rear should not be able to withstand a dedicated AT missile like the TV.

And as Mech_Whore so clearly stated, it is folly for a pilot to sit still and let the gunner have two shots (likely three since the shields will likely go up at some point). At best the gunner gets a single shot. Let him have a chance to make it count.

But most of all I want the AA rockets to be made dumbfire! No more of them going silly while chasing one gunship or the other. Only pure who can hit who... And who is the better pilot.

[Trippet]

I personally don't think the Gunship needs any help - I'm a total rookie with it but flew around for a few rounds as a gunner with a buddy the other night and we did very well - only got killed by the other Gunship and once by crashing after being EMPd.

If the Gunship gets any buffs at all, I'd say you really have to balance that by making it actually possible to shoot down a Gunship with the Walker's AA.

Gunship on the ground + no shields + stationary Walker's AA guns not missing a single shot = overheated AA guns and a live (though damaged) Gunship

Double-yoo tee eff, over? It's hard enough to hit the things when they're zooming around, but making them unkillable by an entire uninterrupted stream of bullets from an AA gun is a little too much. Might as well call the Walker's top guns the "Anti-Second-Story-Infantry Guns".

[Deady]

The gunship is rubbish in some hands, and a deadly weapon in another persons hands.

And thats how it should be. With a good pilot and good gunner working together a gunship can dominate a map. It doesn't need changing at all, really, else as someone pointed out it will become too popular and they'll be queues at spawnpoints and TKing for it etc, which doesnt help the game at all.

Both TV missiles, the MG and the pilot rockets are very effective when used properly. Same with the pilot's missiles.

[Durutti]

If the Gunship gets any buffs at all, I'd say you really have to balance that by making it actually possible to shoot down a Gunship with the Walker's AA.

Gunship on the ground + no shields + stationary Walker's AA guns not missing a single shot = overheated AA guns and a live (though damaged) Gunship

Double-yoo tee eff, over? It's hard enough to hit the things when they're zooming around, but making them unkillable by an entire uninterrupted stream of bullets from an AA gun is a little too much. Might as well call the Walker's top guns the "Anti-Second-Story-Infantry Guns".

I don't know how accurate you were with the AA guns, but in my tests for the gunship guide I found that each bullet from the walker's AA gun did 5 hp of damage and they fire incredibly fast. That's only 20 bullets needed, and it fires at a rate of like 900 per minute. Soooooooo, the walker AA kills a gunship very quickly. And with the EMP to immobilize it if the gunship gets close it's like fish in a barrel.

[Trippet]

I don't know how accurate you were with the AA guns, but in my tests for the gunship guide I found that each bullet from the walker's AA gun did 5 hp of damage and they fire incredibly fast. That's only 20 bullets needed, and it fires at a rate of like 900 per minute. Soooooooo, the walker AA kills a gunship very quickly. And with the EMP to immobilize it if the gunship gets close it's like fish in a barrel.

Hmmm - the gunship was on the ground with no one in it, so that's a hard target to miss! Guess I'll have to take another look - just seemed to me like they overheat way too fast to actually take anything down.

[mrchuckles]

The gunship is fine the way it is. A faster respawn would be nice though but I understand if they want to give the other team a bit of a reward (no death from skies for a minute) for taking one down.

[Biotech2142]

Today I faced some guy in an EU gunship that switched seat to literally rape infantry with the guided missile. He was so skilled that he could take down any armor an even went face to face against engineers with SAAW (I was one of them).

He hovered (landing gear came out) then then he switched and missile came out to blow the multitude. Somehow the SAAW missiles nearly always missed hitting him.

When someone locked on him with SAAW, he did not rested until finding the "menace" and once he found where it was, the seat switch and missile came with for the kill with frustrating precision.

[LahLahSr]

There is absolutely no reason to improve the gunships - they work in the game exactly as they should. They are dangerous in the hands of a SKILLED pilot. With a gunner there are very really no threats that this package cannot engage.

- TV missiles kill tanks in one shot
- Nosegun rips infantry to pieces
- Missiles destroy transports, gunships, ground-vehicles.

They are fast and nimble, can swoop and hover. They have reasonable armor.

The ONLY limitations of this vehicle is the skill-level of the operator(s). Fortunately for us ground-pounders most pilots are not skilled enough to comprehend the necessecity of taking a gunner and fewer are smart enough to fly accordingly.

[TheDesert_Fox]

I'm just glad EMP has less effect than it did in the beta... one EMP and you're dropping 200 altitude...

[WarGimp]

There is absolutely no reason to improve the gunships - they work in the game exactly as they should. They are dangerous in the hands of a SKILLED pilot. With a gunner there are very really no threats that this package cannot engage.

I think there's room for a couple tweaks. I don't think they need to be ramped up a whole lot and I don't have a problem with the way they are now. There's room for a bit of improvement, though.

- TV missiles kill tanks in one shot

Er... no they don't.

- Nosegun rips infantry to pieces

Only if you've got a rather good gunner working with a pilot who can keep things stable. That's as it should be, though.

- Missiles destroy transports, gunships, ground-vehicles.

Once they fix the tracking bug, you should be able to down those transports with ease. As is now, it usually takes 2 or more passes against an un-shielded/un-aware transport. Against most ground targets it takes slightly more than a full load of missiles to pop it... and that's assuming they don't get their shield up.
Again, I don't really think it's a problem, though.

They are fast and nimble, can swoop and hover. They have reasonable armor.

The ONLY limitations of this vehicle is the skill-level of the operator(s). Fortunately for us ground-pounders most pilots are not skilled enough to comprehend the necessecity of taking a gunner and fewer are smart enough to fly accordingly.
I fly well. I know how to use my gunner to the best advantage. I enjoy flying those suckers. I can do a bunch of stunts that are actually combat effective (like looping over a target in order to fire missiles and line up the TVGM from a vertical attack position).

Still, I find that on a map with any sort of organized teamwork going on, a good gunship crew is at a huge disadvantage in terms of scoring potential and survivability when compared to a supply crate supported walker crew with any kind of skill.

As I've mentioned, the tweaks I'd personally like to see would be rather minor.
- Better active defense range to offset splash damage and reduce EMP effects.
- Better vertical (s key) thrust. Those things are pigs when you try to hover and it's rather difficult to "slide" without losing altitude and smacking into the ground.
- A bit more splash for the gun and better armour penetration vs other aircraft. If the gun did more damaged vs aircraft, there would be HUGE incentive for people to actually take gunners.

Again, don't get me wrong. I'm not going to scream and cry about gunships being underpowered... but considering the skill requirement AND player co-operation needed to use them effectively, they could stand to be a bit more formidable.

[Kraxis]

As mentioned my changes are purely from a gunner's perspective.

The reason is that I see good pilots often enough. But I seldomly see gunners. They are as it is fairly weak. Their potential is good, but good pilots have little need for them.

However if the TV missile could kill a tank/APC from the rear (in case it actually hits or the vehicle doesn't slam on it's shields), and take out Tranports in one shot (which it can't, leaves them with ca 40% health). Then the gunner would be a lovely addition to most pilots.

The better cooldown is just a pet peeve I have. I like the gun, even if I think the splash is too small (that is just an incentive to get better), but the overheat is too much.

The cooldown benefit would also help in AA duels. I have flown with good pilots and gunning the enemy gunship or transport can really help the pilot. After all he can't do a thing while the shields are up, but the gunner can.

[GLENNYBOY1]

Apart from the doragon/talon unbalance the only thing I would like to see implemented is a warning/alarm that your gunner has bailed.

Sure you can check the vehicle icon and see the second position is greyed out but in the heat of battle it's the last thing you'll check.

The amount of times I've put myself in a position for the gunner to take a shot and then realised he's not shooting anything because he bailed 20 seconds ago is a little frustrating.

This would be helpful addition too for all you poor grunts in the transports who get to taste dirt every time one of those 'personal taxi' pilots take you for a spin and then bails.

[LahLahSr]

I think there's room for a couple tweaks. I don't think they need to be ramped up a whole lot and I don't have a problem with the way they are now. There's room for a bit of improvement, though.

Er... no they don't.

Only if you've got a rather good gunner working with a pilot who can keep things stable. That's as it should be, though.

Once they fix the tracking bug, you should be able to down those transports with ease. As is now, it usually takes 2 or more passes against an un-shielded/un-aware transport. Against most ground targets it takes slightly more than a full load of missiles to pop it... and that's assuming they don't get their shield up.
Again, I don't really think it's a problem, though.

I fly well. I know how to use my gunner to the best advantage. I enjoy flying those suckers. I can do a bunch of stunts that are actually combat effective (like looping over a target in order to fire missiles and line up the TVGM from a vertical attack position).

Still, I find that on a map with any sort of organized teamwork going on, a good gunship crew is at a huge disadvantage in terms of scoring potential and survivability when compared to a supply crate supported walker crew with any kind of skill.

As I've mentioned, the tweaks I'd personally like to see would be rather minor.
- Better active defense range to offset splash damage and reduce EMP effects.
- Better vertical (s key) thrust. Those things are pigs when you try to hover and it's rather difficult to "slide" without losing altitude and smacking into the ground.
- A bit more splash for the gun and better armour penetration vs other aircraft. If the gun did more damaged vs aircraft, there would be HUGE incentive for people to actually take gunners.

Again, don't get me wrong. I'm not going to scream and cry about gunships being underpowered... but considering the skill requirement AND player co-operation needed to use them effectively, they could stand to be a bit more formidable.

Those are good arguments you bring to the table there Wargimp. I am inclined to agree. You are talking about a few subtle tweaks and not a massive upgrade here and that I do like. Well put - I am convinced.