Spawn killing and Vehicle stealing

[Kditty77]

So i was sitting back at our base, commanding and fighting this smuck who kept comming in to rdx my goods. Our walker appeared and he jumped in it, bam the admin kicked him. While i was glad to get rid of the nuisance, i kinda wondered.

I know this is a frequent topic, and i am not taking a side here so dont flame me. But why is this such a hot topic for admins and players? In Unreal 2003, vehicles cant be taken unless your enemy gets out of one, and you have a few seconds of invincibility when you spawn. They could have put that into bf, but they didnt. So what's the big deal when someone spawn kills or steals vehicles. It would seem you could make a good argument that it is just part of the game and you could deal with.

Oh, and i checked the server rules i was on and it wasnt explicitly listed. I am all for keeping whatever rules the admin sets. If you dont like a server's rule, dont play on it. It just seems that spawn killing and vehicle stealing are now universal rules and i am not sure why.

[Vreki]

So what's the big deal when someone spawn kills or steals vehicles. It would seem you could make a good argument that it is just part of the game and you could deal with.


In then end it comes down to if you believe in "fair play" or "pwnage at all cost"?
Personally I belong in the "fair play" camp, I think the game should be a enjoyable experience for everybody.

[nemesis908]

So i was sitting back at our base, commanding and fighting this smuck who kept comming in to rdx my goods. Our walker appeared and he jumped in it, bam the admin kicked him. While i was glad to get rid of the nuisance, i kinda wondered.

I know this is a frequent topic, and i am not taking a side here so dont flame me. But why is this such a hot topic for admins and players? In Unreal 2003, vehicles cant be taken unless your enemy gets out of one, and you have a few seconds of invincibility when you spawn. They could have put that into bf, but they didnt. So what's the big deal when someone spawn kills or steals vehicles. It would seem you could make a good argument that it is just part of the game and you could deal with.

Oh, and i checked the server rules i was on and it wasnt explicitly listed. I am all for keeping whatever rules the admin sets. If you dont like a server's rule, dont play on it. It just seems that spawn killing and vehicle stealing are now universal rules and i am not sure why.

It's one thing to spawn camp an unlocked base, because obviously both teams are vying for its control. It's another when people are spawn camping a locked base where people have no other option for spawning.

The big deal when someone steals a vehicle is they put their team at a disadvantage, as the kind of people that steal vehicles arent team players and are more often than not, not very good. It's extremely irritating to get out to repair a walker only to have it stolen by some idiot looking to get some quick kills.

In real life you could get out of your car, and someone could jump in and steal it, but there are still rules ie the law. Should you just have to deal with that?

Like Vreki said, it's a matter of your mentality.

[venny]

well there are about 150k players of bf2142 out there (i think, saw somewhere) wonder how many think as u do....

[Kditty77]

Again guys, i am not for or against it. I just think it is something to talk about. The game allows for it, yet a good amount of people are against it. Therefore it is a good thing to discuss.

It's one thing to spawn camp an unlocked base, because obviously both teams are vying for its control. It's another when people are spawn camping a locked base where people have no other option for spawning.

Kditty
I agree with this, i think this when you spawn and instantly get killed you have a 1% chance of pushing the other team back.

The big deal when someone steals a vehicle is they put their team at a disadvantage, as the kind of people that steal vehicles arent team players and are more often than not, not very good. It's extremely irritating to get out to repair a walker only to have it stolen by some idiot looking to get some quick kills.

Kditty
This is a stupid arguement. If you dont want to lose your vehicle when you jump out to repair it. Dont try to repair it in a part of a map where the enemy is. Of course they are going to take it from you if you are dumb enough to give them the opportunity.

In real life you could get out of your car, and someone could jump in and steal it, but there are still rules ie the law. Should you just have to deal with that?

Kditty
This is supposed to be war. Are you trying to say you should be allowed to slit my throat, but not take my speeder if i turn my back.

Like Vreki said, it's a matter of your mentality.

[nemesis908]

This is a stupid arguement. If you dont want to lose your vehicle when you jump out to repair it. Dont try to repair it in a part of a map where the enemy is. Of course they are going to take it from you if you are dumb enough to give them the opportunity.

I think you're misunderstanding me, im talking about vehicles being stolen by team mates not enemies. I have absolutely nothing against enemies stealing vehicles :laugh:. Unless they've gone right to your locked spawn and stolen them from there, that's a cheap tactic.

This is supposed to be war. Are you trying to say you should be allowed to slit my throat, but not take my speeder if i turn my back.

I was talking about team mates, so no they shouldnt be allowed to slit your throat, or take your car.

[Kditty77]

I totally agree with you then. I have a few teamkills on my record when i find the suckers that do that to me. They are only in it for the 20 kills they are getting in the game, and do nothing for the team. Drivers that take off when you tell them you are getting out to repair them a close second.

[TrooperJac]

As far as I'm concerned spawn camping is a legit but cheap tactic. I wouldn't do it. That said it's usually pretty easy to clear them out of your base. Like on GB - if someone is in there killing people as they spawn just take them out. Even cheaper is people who roam around with the walker in the PAC base slaughterting people - still they can be easily removed.

As for stealing vehicles - fair enough in my book!

[venny]

actually, if the team is clever enough they wont even get spawned camped in the first place

[nemesis908]

actually, if the team is clever enough they wont even get spawned camped in the first place

Not true, sometimes teams are completely outclassed. One team will eventually win, sometimes it will be a struggle and both teams will be pretty even, struggling in the middle of the map. Other times a team will be walked over, leaving them struggling to leave their locked base, in this case it is NOT alright to spawn rape.

This "if the team was clever enough" is mostly bullsh!t used as an excuse by people who like to spawn rape.

[Vreki]

actually, if the team is clever enough they wont even get spawned camped in the first place

Yes, those good enough to not get spawncamped wont get spawncamped, thats self evident.

That doesn't really change the cheapness of it.

But this is a game, and if the server rules are "n0 rUlezz" then everything is allowed.
There is no reason that "Pwners" and "Gentlemen" cant exist in parallel on different servers, it only becomes a problem when they mix.
Which is why it is important that server rules are stated on the loading screen.

Fortunately for me most servers seem to be of the no spawncamping/baseraping variety.

Edit To add:
Stealing from friendlies is bad, stealing from enemies is fine, except in locked bases.

[Bardo]

yeah, this is kind of one of those grey areas. you either think its ok for its not.

just as on some of these FF-off servers, some think its ok to rdx to the top of buildings, other don't. commanders to fly or not to fly.... etc.

plenty of servers allow either style. just play on the ones which make you happy.

personally, some spawn camping is ok in cappable flags. if you're getting spawn killed, kill that damned camper! that's my take... teach them a lesson!

what sucks is that spawn camping the uncaps (if its the last flag) can kill a server and make it depopulate. i've seen this happen dozens of times... then the quality of play goes down the toilet.

[parish]

Intersting, I have sen peeps claim that if you were "clever" enough you would not get spawn killed. This implies that some special level of l33tn3ss dictates if you live or die in that situation. This is not the case. If you are in you uncap, and it is the only palce you can spawn, then how exactly do you get around it?

Example: CampG

You spawn in front of the walker as it lays waste to you. You spawn again and the walker is right there. You have nowhere else to spawn. You spawn yet again, but this time you are somehow "clever" and you don't get killed by the giant metal robot pointing its guns at the spot you spawned? ROFL... gimme a break. People really show how smart they are when they say crap like some have in this thread.

[nemesis908]

Intersting, I have sen peeps claim that if you were "clever" enough you would not get spawn killed. This implies that skil level dictates it. This is not the case. If you are in you uncap, and it is the only plce you can spawn, then how exactly do you get around it.

Example: CampG

You spaan in front of the walker as it lays waste to you. You spawn again and the walker is right there. You have nowhere else to spawn. You spawn yet again, but this time you are somehow "clever" and you don't get killed by the giant metal robot pointing its guns at the spot you spawned? ROFL... gimme a break. People really show how smart they are when they sadi crap like some have in this thread.

Exactly! Nice to see someone else who's enlightened to the reality of the situation.

[venny]

Intersting, I have sen peeps claim that if you were "clever" enough you would not get spawn killed. This implies that some special level of l33tn3ss dictates if you live or die in that situation. This is not the case. If you are in you uncap, and it is the only palce you can spawn, then how exactly do you get around it?

Example: CampG

You spawn in front of the walker as it lays waste to you. You spawn again and the walker is right there. You have nowhere else to spawn. You spawn yet again, but this time you are somehow "clever" and you don't get killed by the giant metal robot pointing its guns at the spot you spawned? ROFL... gimme a break. People really show how smart they are when they say crap like some have in this thread.

the walker is nt invincible n u r not the only one on the team.... i said team not jus u.... its a team effort nt to get spawn camped not jus one person.
u get killed, someone else hits the walker, another one hits the walker n another, that walker goes down after your teammateS take it down, voila! ur team is not getting spawn camped after 15 secs!

the reason y a team gets spawn camped is not really leetness. its the teamwork they show. if everyone leaves that walker to lay waste to their teammates n never bothers to take it down, that walker will jus keep spawn camping them. can u truly blame the walker for spawn camping when u spawn as an assualt or support rather than an engie or recon to take it out?

if u have 32 engie teammates taking out one spawn camping walker, do you think he will be spawn camping for long? taking down your spawn campers is not leetness. its teamwork.

[The_Eliminator]

I hate the no attacking uncapping rule, IMO its perfectly fine as this is war, its like saying when im behind this line were best friends, when i cross it im going to kick your ***.

[nemesis908]

the walker is nt invincible n u r not the only one on the team.... i said team not jus u.... its a team effort nt to get spawn camped not jus one person.
u get killed, someone else hits the walker, another one hits the walker n another, that walker goes down after your teammateS take it down, voila! ur team is not getting spawn camped after 5 secs!

Lol, what kind of fantasy world do you live in? One where teams fully cooperate 100% of the time? Where sacrifice comes above personal gain? Pull your head out of your arse, team efforts are a rarity in anything other than clan matches.

I hate the no attacking uncapping rule, IMO its perfectly fine as this is war, its like saying when im behind this line were best friends, when i cross it im going to kick your ***.

This isnt war, this is a game that simulates war. All games require rules in order to be fair.

What it's really like saying is..

"When im behind this line i will respect that you are at a disadvantage as you are incapable of fighting back efficiently, so in future i will not cross this line unless i am to sabotage commander resources. Upon completing that task I will vacate your spawn area immediately."

[venny]

in a situation like that, your personal gain is to take out that walker or it takes u out for the next 10 times till the round ends.

team efforts are rarity? then the other team has better teamwork n so u will get spawn camped. sure, its nt 100% teamwork, its jus who got more of it. if u get spawn camped, it means the other team got more of it. nothing leet about it.

[nemesis908]

in a situation like that, your personal gain is to take out that walker or it takes u out for the next 10 times till the round ends.

team efforts are rarity? then the other team has better teamwork n so u will get spawn camped. sure, its nt 100% teamwork, its jus who got more of it. if u get spawn camped, it means the other team got more of it. nothing leet about it.

Teamwork like you were suggesting is a rarity.

You're missing the point, spawn camping isnt a privilege of having better teamwork, it's something that neither team should do under any circumstances.

[venny]

lemme ask u, when u get spawn camped how many of them are there to kill u when u spawn? a few? truth is, quite a number, usually. next, when u try to retailate, how many of u are there to shoot back at those spawn campers? jus u? alone? or in numbers much lesser than those spawn campers? or wo vehicles?

if they can reach your spawn point in force wif little resistance, they mus be working as a team while your team mus have been running alone n getting killed.

lets put it the other way. your team attacks together, clears out the other team that appears sporadically like lone rangers. attack n capture in force. would this team be spawn camped?

it is the teamwork. n i agree, its really luck, u wont always get to join a team with gd team players.

so the point im putting, its nt really that the spawn campers are not playing fair, its that the spawn camped team is not putting up enough of a resistance n fighting together

[parish]

in a situation like that, your personal gain is to take out that walker or it takes u out for the next 10 times till the round ends.

team efforts are rarity? then the other team has better teamwork n so u will get spawn camped. sure, its nt 100% teamwork, its jus who got more of it. if u get spawn camped, it means the other team got more of it. nothing leet about it.

Wow... this is amazing. Yes, walkers can be destroyed and yes you can take them out *if* certain conditions are met.

1. You spawn as engi and have unlocked the pilum.
2. You spawn facing the walker and have time to aim.
3. Your teammates are doing the same thing.

In almost any other situation it is not possible to stop the walker. Most teams, even those with good teamwork, do not usually manage to take walkers out in these situations. Any walker pilot with the skill of a gnat would know which direction the enemy faces at that spawn point. Simply move around to the side and they never have time to take aim and fire before you kill them.

Look guys, it's really easy to say one could do many things to defeat this sitaution. The reality is than less than 10% of the time, you have a team that works well enough to stop this kind of abuse. Saying the other team has good teamwork because one guys is spawn killing in a walker is like saying they all go camping together on the weekends. It just is not true. It is just one guy diong it. The rest of his team may be killing time, repairing him or whatever, but even if they are not all of them are doing it.

Most decent players with any sense of fairness will simply look upon this behaviour as cheap and lacking of any real skill. Those who look at it any other way do not deserve to be on my team. Cheapness and cheese d!cks who think they are skilled because they can spam a trigger in the same spot for 40 minutes killing anything that spawns are sad. IMHO it's pathetic. Look at some of the stats of such players and you will see some seriously skewed numbers. Lack of teamwork and lack of uniformity across the kits they use.

[TrooperJac]

I disagree. You can take the walker down if you really need to. May cost you a couple of lives but it's not the case that the walker will lock down all your troops in your base.

That said - I wouldn't do it - it's just not cricket :D

[=)BiT(=AutoFodder]

you then also have the problem of the other 31 people on the opposite team that are now pointing their rifles at your hideously ill-equiped team-mates that have all been noble and organised enough to spawn as engies (which btw would never happen as i am sure you are aware)

spawn-rape cannot be justified as a valid tactic in this game:shakehead:

[Kditty77]

Ok so in conclusion. While many of us can come up with valid arguments to validate a spawn rape. From it being allowed in the game to the other team being equiped to deal with it.

It comes down to the fact that the masses think it is wrong, and it will always be seen as weak, stat padding, and honor-less. So if you are ok with being labeled that way. rape away. If you value your reputation, then keep the raping to the orbit strike equipment or to the idiots who keep spawning to their beacon when you have it totally covered.

[Guldur]

If you value your reputation, then keep the raping to the orbit strike equipment or to the idiots who keep spawning to their beacon when you have it totally covered.

With spawn camping a Squad Leader Beacon, I have absolutely no problem with. Nobody forces the sqaud to use it. But raping an uncappable base... That mostly ruins the fun for half the server. It might be possible to keep a whole team down this way, but is it really satisfying? Depends on why somebody plays this game. For the win/loss ratio or for the enjoyment? Imho that general "no base rape" rule that most people agree on highly improves the gameplay of most FPS.

Guldur

[TrooperJac]

I agree. I have even instructed people in my squad to leave the enemy base when we have all but the uncap. Roaming around a base waiting for people to spawn in is lame. I don't get too worked up about the types of people that do it however. I find they are a minority and easy to clean out.

[whitehunter]

Well on are server we does not allow Base raping in the uncap. but we do allow them to go in the uncap to destroy assets and take vehicles. I do Kick or even ban if i do see someone doing this.

I personally think spawn raping is wrong it can take the fun out of the game. Who wants to play a game where u get killed every time u spawn in and cant even move. I bet that everyone who said that it is ok to spawn rape would be pissed and and crying to an admin if it was happening to them.

Plus most people that spawn rape can't kill anyone if they were actually fighting and if they let the person have a chance to move they would get owned. People Spawn rape for points and not for the fun of the game. This is my two cents on this topic.

[Kditty77]

Hey Fullmetal

I am not being an arse. I am really wondering. So you allow someone to run into a uncapped base and steal a walker. If on the way out someone spawns and attacks him, he would get kicked or banned if he fired back.

That seems hard to police. You may want to limit it to just attacking assets and not taking vehicles.

[whitehunter]

No they will not be kick for that. But if they do linger in the uncap they will be kicked.

[The_Eliminator]

what makes rapping one flag any different from raping an uncap other than the fact you cant spawn anywhere else? Isnt that your fault to begin with?

[whitehunter]

So it is someone fault that one side is better then the other side? Even if the losing team had some of the best player in the world u are saying it is there fault that there is an apc raping the heck out of them in there uncap when they spawn in because they can't spawn anywhere else.

[The 13th Raptor]

what makes rapping one flag any different from raping an uncap other than the fact you cant spawn anywhere else? Isnt that your fault to begin with?

Nope, when the teams are cluestacked it's simpy bad luck.

Its not uncommon to see one team full of randoms, and the other team full of clannies.

[The_Eliminator]

The thing i dont get is people seem to think that once they join a server, thats it, they cant leave, the teams are stacked and its really unfair but they wont leave...then why do they complain about somethign they could have taken control of?

[nemesis908]

what makes rapping one flag any different from raping an uncap other than the fact you cant spawn anywhere else? Isnt that your fault to begin with?

The difference is one is a mutual objective between two teams, the other is not. How is it anyone in particulars fault? I know that when it happens to me im trying as hard as i can to avoid it, as are most of the other members of the team. There are a lot of factors that could cause a team to be pushed into a position like that, that doesnt mean it's fair to base rape.

Baserapers are degenerates.

The thing i dont get is people seem to think that once they join a server, thats it, they cant leave, the teams are stacked and its really unfair but they wont leave...then why do they complain about somethign they could have taken control of?

People shouldnt have to leave because of some opportunistic morons.

[TheLeper]

spawn camping onfoot in my opinion is ok as it is all part of war and you have a chance spawn camped pac base on camp g by both walkers some jeeps and a whole heap of soldiers is not fun you may get a couple of kills but its hard to come back against when you spawn amongst 20 knives and the vehicles. Although if you make it past this you can easily cap back bases.

I have found nothing clears a conquest server quicker than 2 eu walkers in the pac base on camp g, well other than the server crashing . . .

[nemesis908]

spawn camping onfoot in my opinion is ok as it is all part of war and you have a chance spawn camped pac base on camp g by both walkers some jeeps and a whole heap of soldiers is not fun you may get a couple of kills but its hard to come back against when you spawn amongst 20 knives and the vehicles. Although if you make it past this you can easily cap back bases.

I have found nothing clears a conquest server quicker than 2 eu walkers in the pac base on camp g, well other than the server crashing . . .

There are rules even to war. War isnt an excuse to do as you please, so that throws the "this is war anything goes" theory out the window.

[jake___]

There are rules even to war. War isnt an excuse to do as you please, so that throws the "this is war anything goes" theory out the window.

It's quite the opposite. This isn't war, its just a game. So anything goes. In a real war you would have to be much more humane, and you wouldn't even be fighting a war with un-capable bases or having guys "spawn" there either.

If people are base raping your team really bad, why not just spawn somewhere else? If there isn't anywhere else to spawn, what do you expect the enemy to do? Sit in their base and wait for you to cap more flags?

That doesn't make any sense at all. There's always something that can be done, especially on an organized server. The scenario where all you have is your un-capable rarely happens on balanced teams in the first place. And what about NS games where the PAC base becomes unlocked with all the other flags capped? Then it clearly is base raping since it wa
s built into the game, right?


EDIT: On the other hand, spawn camping and vehicle stealing are different than base raping. You can base rape without sitting in front of a spawn point and I don't see anything wrong with stealing vehicles for very obvious reasons.

[nemesis908]

It's quite the opposite. This isn't war, its just a game. So anything goes. In a real war you would have to be much more humane, and you wouldn't even be fighting a war with un-capable bases or having guys "spawn" there either.

If people are base rapping your team really bad, why not just spawn somewhere else? If there isn't anywhere else to spawn, what do you expect the enemy to do? Sit in their base and wait for you to cap more flags?

That doesn't make any sense at all. There's always something that can be done, especially on an organized server. The scenario where all you have is your un-capable rarely happens on balanced teams in the first place. And what about NS games where the PAC base becomes unlocked with all the other flags capped? Then it clearly is base rapping since it was built into the game, right?

My response was aimed at those who compare the game directly to war, people that say things like "it's war so anything goes". If you had read it properly you would have realised that.

This is how the situation SHOULD work. The enemy captures all of the objective bases, and then adopts a defensive strategy where by they attempt to hold all of their captured objectives.

The only reason people are allowed into the locked bases is to take out commander assets. It's obvious spawn raping wasnt intended.

On NS when the PAC base becomes unlocked the objective is to then take and hold the final flag, thus it is no longer base raping.

It might "rarely" happen in your experience but it's actually quite common in mine. There's a reason why so many people view base raping as wrong, it's because you're essentially exploiting the game.

[jake___]

My response was aimed at those who compare the game directly to war, people that say things like "it's war so anything goes". If you had read it properly you would have realised that.

This is how the situation SHOULD work. The enemy captures all of the objective bases, and then adopts a defensive strategy where by they attempt to hold all of their captured objectives.

The only reason people are allowed into the locked bases is to take out commander assets. It's obvious spawn raping wasnt intended.

On NS when the PAC base becomes unlocked the objective is to then take and hold the final flag, thus it is no longer base raping.

It might "rarely" happen in your experience but it's actually quite common in mine. There's a reason why so many people view base raping as wrong, it's because you're essentially exploiting the game.

Man, you must really hate me. I said there is a difference between most of the fighting taking place at a base and spawn camping. When the enemy has no where else to go, they have to go to your base.

Then I said the "its war so anything goes" analogy is completely backwards. I wasn't even disagreeing with you!

Think before you post.
:p

[whitehunter]

There will always be people that think they can do anything they want on server's and this is why they get banned.

[nemesis908]

Man, you must really hate me. I said there is a difference between most of the fighting taking place at a base and spawn camping. When the enemy has no where else to go, they have to go to your base.

Then I said the "its war so anything goes" analogy is completely backwards. I wasn't even disagreeing with you!

Think before you post.
:p

No you were trying to tell me that the game is nothing like war, even though that's what i'd been saying all along. You were disagreeing with me, you think anything goes; you agree with spawn raping.

When the enemy has no where else to go, they have to go to your base

Bullsh!t. That's also contradicting, because once they reach the locked spawn they have nowhere else to go. If the enemy defends their last unlocked base, the other team is going to attack. It's not like when you're pushed back to your locked base you cant still take the fight back to the enemy. having nowhere else to go is a moronic excuse.

In fact, not base raping opens more opportunities for action, and for a better game.

Think before you post. :p

You idiot.

[whitehunter]

You idiot.
This made me laugh.

[jake___]

EDIT: On the other hand, spawn camping and vehicle stealing are different than base raping. You can base rape without sitting in front of a spawn point and I don't see anything wrong with stealing vehicles for very obvious reasons.

I do not condone spawn camping, I think that is horrid and stat-padding. On the other hand, I believe attacking a base is perfectly legit, especially when there is no other place to go and I do not find anything wrong with stealing vehicles as it falls along the same line as destroying commander assets. I hope I have clarified my point of view.

Please do not insult me further.

[whitehunter]

I do not condone spawn camping, I think that is horrid and stat-padding. On the other hand, I believe attacking a base is perfectly legit, especially when there is no other place to go.

This does not make scene first u say that Spawn raping is bad but then u said the Attacking an Uncap is ok if they did not have any other flag. i don't get it.:confused: :confused: :confused:

[jake___]

This does not make scene first u say that Spawn raping is bad but then u said the Attacking an Uncap is ok if they did not have any other flag. i don't get it.:confused: :confused: :confused:

C'mon....
I mean: tts ok to go into a base and attack the guys there, because that's the only place they are. It's NOT ok to sit in front of where you know a guy will spawn and keep killing guys. Two different things, right?

Attacking an uncapable is no the same thing as sitting where you can see guys spawn and kill them before they have a chance to attack.

That's the whole point I was trying to make.

Please tell me someone gets what I am saying.

[whitehunter]

I kinda get what u are saying but if u are in the uncap then u will see them spawn and then u kill them.

[venny]

i think this has gone far enough. if u dont want this to become a total flaming session, which some guys have already started to insult each other. admins kindly lock this.
:locked: :locked: :locked: :locked: :locked:

[Snickety B]

I often steal vehicles from a locked base- usually after I have been busy RDXing the commander assets.
Once I have stolen the vehicle I always take that vehicle and find the fight - elsewhere on the map.
The advantage of this is (1) It gives me transport out of the enemy base (2) it denies the enemy use of that vehicle.
I never use it to hang around and spawnkill at the uncapp.

I think stealing enemy vehicles can be justified. Cheap spawnkilling -and all spawnkilling is cheap- is never (ever) justified.

[Vreki]

C'mon....
I mean: tts ok to go into a base and attack the guys there, because that's the only place they are. It's NOT ok to sit in front of where you know a guy will spawn and keep killing guys. Two different things, right?

Attacking an uncapable is no the same thing as sitting where you can see guys spawn and kill them before they have a chance to attack.

That's the whole point I was trying to make.

Please tell me someone gets what I am saying.

I get what your are saying, but I think that you are wrong.

The way I see it is that locked bases are intended as safe staging areas, just like the shielded Titan hangars.
That means that even when pushed back to the last base the losing part will have a chance to form up and get a few vehicles to support a breakout attempt.
That keeps the game interesting to the end.

On the other hand if the enemy is allowed into the uncap, then they will most like have most of their vehicles there, and since they are the dominating force they are also likely to have control of the vehicles spawning at the uncap. The defenders will spawn individually facing all the vehicle's of the map, and will have a life expectancy of a few seconds.

Usually I will fight to the end, but if I am spawncamped without a chance to fight then I will just leave the server. I play to have fun.

In the end the spawncampers will lose too, because there will be no one left to play with.

[Ansur]

If it's a baserape I'll leave too, but stealing the enemys hardware in the uncap is totally legit, when that happens to my team, that's our fault. It's not the enemy who is doing something wrong. You should keep an eye on your assets and vehicles.
BTW: It would be easy to make the uncap a safeplace, if someone guards the assets til the hardware spawns again.... Kinda boring though.

A server engaged in baserape is soon a empty server... people will leave.

[Dead_And_Gone]

OK... This is very simple economics.
Server owners want people to use thier server(s).
Some have found that there are certain "Server" rules that tend to attract people with the same gaming philosphy as the owner. Happy players mean a full server. Win Win !!!

Servers tend to de-populate quickly when say the EU side is base-raping the PAC uncap on Camp G. You KNOW that people just got killed by a walker rampaging through the uncap, but they will still spawn as assault/support/ or whatever, making them cannon fodder. This is especially true for new players who have little or no experience and certainly none with the engy kit. If the commander drops a supply crate(s) for the walker, they are basically unkillable. Parked by the crate, and you may get 1 shot at them before you are crispy critter, and they will heal up in seconds. Add to that, their buddies who have taken up positions in the rocks around the uncap, and YOU WILL QUICKLY DIE !!! There are servers that allow this.
No real skill involved, high frustration, and people leave the server. They just had a terribly bad experience, and may never come back to that server. This is not a winning solution, the server owner watches his server population tank, and no-one is happy except the base-rapers who ruined the game for a large number of people.

So the servers I play on don't allow base-raping the uncap on CQC. Blowing assets or stealing armor? Go for it, but leave afterwards as fast as safely possible.

************************************************** ********

TiTan doesn't have an uncap since you can spawn on the TiTan. Coming to the uncap when the shields are down is necessary so that you can deploy on top of the enemy TiTan, thus it is fair play. Some people take it to the extreme by podding in at the start of the game, putting down a beacon, and raping the spawn points all round long. I can understand stealing the armor, but often they WON'T LEAVE until they are killed. They just spawn at the beacon hidden in the hills, rinse and repeat.

You can say that well, you can use the TiTan guns to kill the campers. Yes and No. How many times have you seen the gunship fly to the enemy TiTan immediately, and blow off the guns. Meanwhile, their buddies are in the AA gun shooting the guns as fast as possible at spawners and at the TiTan guns. After all, everyone else on your team is out trying to cap silo's. So poor smuck will get killed out in the field and spawn at the uncap. He/She jumps in their favorite armor, and Insta killed by MM's or RDX left by the persistent campers, if they aren't shot immediately once spawned. The campers get their kill, and maybe even another kill if that person tries it again, hoping for a different spawn point there. You spawn on the TiTan, and all the guns are dead/zero/blown away. OK, now you try to fix something, but the guy on the ground in the AA kills them faster than you can repair.

Options.
1. Pod out and go on foot, which can waste A LOT of time on big maps.
2. Pod out to the back of the base and try to kill the campers. You've already donated +2 kills to them, so give it a go? Likely futile, but there is always a chance. You might even get your squaddies to come assist.
3. Take transport and go silo hopping, leaving your respawned armor for the campers to use and abuse anyone spawning at the base, or to take silo's/positions. Now your team is outnumbered in armor assets, at least temporarily. The question of the day is, can you fly that COW?
4. Spawn on one of your team's silo's/flags and fight it out from there.
5. While the other team is busy stat padding at your base, you are taking their flags/silo's. After all, TiTan is about silo's and attacking/defending the TiTan's, Conquest is about tag totals.

But, this tactic is STILL LEGAL. The reasoning is, that too many rules causes as much problems as not enough rules. TiTan mode, you must be able to get close or inside the enemy base before or when the shields go down, and to restrict gameplay would make administration of it much too cumbersome and an unrealistic expectation for the admins to enforce.

I may not like the tactics that some people use, but it is something that you just have to live with. RDX Jihad jeeps and Jihad transports are lame tactics IMO, but they are still allowed. If the other side seems to be concentrating on Jihadding, it either allows us to take more flags/silo's, or it will annoy me enough that I'll take a break.

To me, It's all about gamemanship. Some people don't give a rat's butt about fair play as long as their stats are at the top. Some people buy multi-hacks, because they want to be "AT THE TOP", and they have fun owning people right and left. If you find those types of players appealing, then go to where they are playing and have fun.

Find a server that has more gameplay that fits how YOU want to play, and you will be much happier. For a long time server hopping was what I did before I found the 2 fav's and 2-3 other server's that I enjoy playing on regularly. There is a server or servers out there that cater to your style of play, something for everyone.

[Ansur]

Walker baseraping with supply crate?

http://www.totalbf2142.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1223&stc=1&d=1179218553

The walker just got destroyed soon after my first spawn, couldn't screenshot while it was alive obviously, explains the score and the fact that Pac didn't get anywhere. I left the server.

[sogek1ng]

Wow, how can someone drop soooo many crates??

[rIkIO]

Seems to be the new processing power of Punkbuster...
http://www.totalbf2142.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23261

[The_Eliminator]

People shouldnt have to leave because of some opportunistic morons.

Then why do people complain when it is their decision to stay?

[sogek1ng]

Maybe they had a good game, and wanted to keep their points. Plus they don't want to take the loss?

maybe, I don't know. When I was playing somewhere and I knew someone was playing with something that was lagging them out, i left.

[The_Eliminator]

This argument can go both ways but IMO its down to the people whop are too arrogant not to leave the server if they are getting crushed and dont like it.

Instead they sit there typing useless insults in the text dialog thinking someone is reading them and really taking offense.

[Dead_And_Gone]

By all means, if the server you play on allows that kind of play, then it is up to the people getting owned to either deal with it or leave the server.

They don't HAVE to spawn at ALL, just don't pick a spawn point. You are going to take the loss anyway, no matter what. Next round, Even Stevens, and may the best team win. :)

[sogek1ng]

Hey dead, is that a double yellow? Or a Yellow nape?

[Vreki]

This argument can go both ways but IMO its down to the people whop are too arrogant not to leave the server if they are getting crushed and dont like it.

Instead they sit there typing useless insults in the text dialog thinking someone is reading them and really taking offense.

Your example is missing some important context: Does the server in question allow baseraping? If not then it is arrogant to assume that those who play by the rules should leave because of a bunch of anarchists.

Those who cant agree to the server rules should stay away.

[nemesis908]

Then why do people complain when it is their decision to stay?

If they stay it's their own fault, personally i'd leave. However they shouldnt have to leave a game because people are spawn raping, spawn raping unlocked bases is unjustified. It's impossible to justify it.

[FPS[VT_NERD]]

C'mon....
I mean: tts ok to go into a base and attack the guys there, because that's the only place they are. It's NOT ok to sit in front of where you know a guy will spawn and keep killing guys. Two different things, right?

Attacking an uncapable is no the same thing as sitting where you can see guys spawn and kill them before they have a chance to attack.

That's the whole point I was trying to make.

Please tell me someone gets what I am saying.

I understand what you are saying, but from an admin perspective it would be very hard and perhaps even impossible to distinguish those two behaviors. It would be even harder to communicate a rule of that nature on the loading screen or in the scrolling messages.

From a personal perspective I disagree. If you're attacking an uncap you're going to spawn kill some people. You might not be going for it, but it will happen because you'll need to do so in order to stay alive.

I'm not sure how this thread has turned into a spawn camp vs. anti spawn camp argument. There's been a million and one of these threads and nobody ever changes anybody else's opinion on the matter.

The OP just wanted to know if all servers had adopted this kind of rule. Since our servers have been down the past few days I've been playing on random servers and I can assure you that there are plenty of places with a "no rules" approach to running things. If you like that kind of approach (I sure hate it) you should have no trouble finding somewhere to play. If you like to know that someone won't be farming you for cheap points then we're happy to provide that kind of environment on our servers.

[Ansur]

If the enemy only is in the uncap, that's because they're not getting out, if they stay, the ticketbleed will cost them the game. But I understand, it's a war game, and you all got guns, and hate waiting, and it is possible to place an attack order on the uncap....
But I will disobey that order and leave the server cause it's gonna be empty on the enemy side soon anyway. The trumph card here is server rules, follow them.

[The_Eliminator]

Your example is missing some important context: Does the server in question allow baseraping? If not then it is arrogant to assume that those who play by the rules should leave because of a bunch of anarchists.

Those who cant agree to the server rules should stay away.

This is also very true and so i admit i didnt take it into account.

If the admins enforce it like they do on the server i play on then then it doesnt happen anyway so it shouldn't be a problem. It usually happens on the servers that allow it, and arrogant people stay and moan.

[parish]

There is another side of this all together. Some of the ribbons and medals require a certain number of wins and or a win loss ratio greater than 2.0 (WCR). With those in mind, being horribly raped while in your uncap over and over with no chance of defeating the enemy or winning a round hardly seems fair.

Those good players who *could* aid a team in such situations will often swap teams at first chance to allow for a victory. It was just something passing through my mind and it could affect the way the round goes.

No matter what people say, in the end this is supposed to be a game. This would imply you have fun while playing it. Any behavior or action you perform that detracts from an enjoyable gaming experience and removes the element of fun for other players is a "lesser" thing to do. It won't garner you respect on any level, and just looking at the leader boards should confirm this. Look around at the guys with insane scores and then look at how they got them. Team stacking is just one example of this behavior.

I know personally that I have the best games when both teams are somewhat equally matched. A challenge is always welcome. A horrific beating because a few miscreants wish to use methods that would otherwise be considered "cheap" serves to accomplish nothing. These very same people who perform these acts are the ones who walk around with their E-peen out and hope someone will notice.

[Vreki]

There is another side of this all together. Some of the ribbons and medals require a certain number of wins and or a win loss ratio greater than 2.0 (WCR).
Ah yes, the "Renegade Reward".
I find that it is a suspiciously high ratio of ending on the winning side, I am certainly going to keep my back against the wall if I see a teammate wearing this.;)
http://www.totalbf2142.com/images/ribbons/ribbon9.png

[parish]

Ah yes, the "Renegade Reward".
I find that it is a suspiciously high ratio of ending on the winning side, I am certainly going to keep my back against the wall if I see a teammate wearing this.;)
http://www.totalbf2142.com/images/ribbons/ribbon9.png

Well I have it (WCR) but assure you it is not from switching teams for a win. My WL ratio has gone up and down and I was over 3.0 when I got it. I won't lie and say I have never switched sides, but I only do it to play on the same side as my clanmates and have never done it simply to gain another win. I have also done it to even teams when another team was down and auto balance was not on I pride myself on the fact that I don't exploit, glitch or do otherwise unclassy things in the game.

[Vreki]

Well I have it (WCR) but assure you it is not from switching teams for a win. My WL ratio has gone up and down and I was over 3.0 when I got it.

Slight derail, but how is that possible?
A commander doesn't have that much impact on the battle, which is why I find it a bit suspicious.
Is it from having your clan massacre uncoordinated opponents on public servers?

This is not meant as an attack on you, I am just curious.

[jake___]

I get what your are saying, but I think that you are wrong.

The way I see it is that locked bases are intended as safe staging areas, just like the shielded Titan hangars.
That means that even when pushed back to the last base the losing part will have a chance to form up and get a few vehicles to support a breakout attempt.
That keeps the game interesting to the end.

On the other hand if the enemy is allowed into the uncap, then they will most like have most of their vehicles there, and since they are the dominating force they are also likely to have control of the vehicles spawning at the uncap. The defenders will spawn individually facing all the vehicle's of the map, and will have a life expectancy of a few seconds.

Usually I will fight to the end, but if I am spawncamped without a chance to fight then I will just leave the server. I play to have fun.

In the end the spawncampers will lose too, because there will be no one left to play with.

I suppose that in a very organized server, like a clan one for example. Those few seconds might be enough to turnto tide for at least a while. But we aren't talking about that kind of server, are we? So I guess you are right too. Although there are different degrees of base rape too, I spose it would be pretty frustrating for most players for their team to be losing like that.

I'd just take advantage of the situation of having most of the enemy in one place. Easy targets. :p

[parish]

Slight derail, but how is that possible?
A commander doesn't have that much impact on the battle, which is why I find it a bit suspicious.
Is it from having your clan massacre uncoordinated opponents on public servers?

This is not meant as an attack on you, I am just curious.

When I got it, I had been a regular on only one server really. I always played there and usually with the same guys. We made a pretty concerned effort (my clan mates and I) to help me get it. It was more of an afterthought when I realized it was even possible for me to get it. We did pound on a few teams and once we got a groove going on any given night, we would just run with it. If the other team sucked and we could swing a few wins, we would. I will say we never stacked as we played mostly on 64 player servers and never had more than 4-6 of my own guys playing with me.

The commander can do quite a bit if the guys under him are paying attention. Most of the guys I played with at the time were pretty good about following orders and would actually watch for the red dots on their HUD when I spotted someone near them. I owe most of it to the guys that hung out with me every night for a few weeks.

I got it some time ago, but still play with most of the same guys and only on a few servers which is why I have managed to go up and down in WL ratio, but maintain a better than 2.0 avg.

I will admit I get curious how some of the players get 3+ in WL ratio. I have even seen some around here with better than a 5.0! That raises flags for me knowing how hard it was to stay over 2.

[Vreki]

I guess that is the fairest way to get that ribbon.
But I still think it is a stupid award that breeds turncoats.:D

[ThirtyOughtSix]

the walker is nt invincible n u r not the only one on the team.... i said team not jus u.... its a team effort nt to get spawn camped not jus one person.
u get killed, someone else hits the walker, another one hits the walker n another, that walker goes down after your teammateS take it down, voila! ur team is not getting spawn camped after 15 secs!

the reason y a team gets spawn camped is not really leetness. its the teamwork they show. if everyone leaves that walker to lay waste to their teammates n never bothers to take it down, that walker will jus keep spawn camping them. can u truly blame the walker for spawn camping when u spawn as an assualt or support rather than an engie or recon to take it out?

if u have 32 engie teammates taking out one spawn camping walker, do you think he will be spawn camping for long? taking down your spawn campers is not leetness. its teamwork.

Wow how narrow minded is that? Seriously, you can't all spawn at the same time, there is only ONE DOT for you to select sometimes (on CampG there is two in the uncap, yes i know).... and you have no control out of which one of those say 5 spots you might spawn at (that it will ALWAYS spawn you at for that spawn point)... not to mention that everyone cannot spawn at the same time.... it spawns people in ONE AT A TIME.... don't believe me? What about those times where the spawn point at the uncap TURNS RED? And won't let you spawn? It does this because there is currently somebody trying to spawn there.... you have to wait in line...

Ok here is an example... on Fall of Berlin... here is this walker, waiting at your ONLY spawn point.. he knows every single one of the static spawn areas that you can magically pop into.... and constantly scans them all.... there is also this APC also doing the same thing.... now they've already killed you all, and you have no more spawn points... just your uncap... and they've wiped out your whole team and your ALL waiting to respawn.

The game respawns ONE of you at a time at say one of five spawn areas for that spawn point... again, they are static, they know RIGHT where you might pop in.... and now you have a WALKER and an APC... and even a sniper and some assualt waiting for you.... WHERE EXACTLY ARE YOU GOING TO SPAWN that will let you accompish this mission of yours to get out from under this spawn camping? If it where just infantry, MAYBE... but with an APC and walker? If they know what they are doing, FORGET IT. It will NEVER HAPPEN.

It's about the same as pushing somebody into a corner and constantly footsweeping them in Street Fighter 2... for another example..... there's really NOT MUCH you can do about it. Your screwed.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM HERE. Stop trying to justify it saying that "teamwork" can get out from under it.... because that only works if thier team is not so bright, and not using teamwork, and yours is.... and still, even then your LUCKY to wiggle out of that situation.

Against a well organized team? Getting out from under a team wide spawn camp with VEHICLES is next to impossible. And completely RUINS the game for everyone... even for the campers. Well, I'm sure there are those that "get off" on this type of behavior... but personally.. when my team is doing this? I DO NOT follow suit.... it's just retarded and boring... I'd rather fall back and to the first capturable base and try to hold it. It's MUCH more fun that way. There's actually a CHALLENGE then.... I guess there are just too many lazy *** gamers out there that want everything "handed" to them on a silver platter.... and then they have the nerve to say they have some sort of skill because of this!

No, I'll tell you who would have skill, anyone who helps lead the team OUT of that situation... THAT IS THE PERSON WITH SKILLS.

[Tehb2]

Personally, I don't have much problem with stealing vehicles. Although, if you steal a vehicle from a near-empty non-cap base, when the real action is across the map somewhere, then thats just stupid. Get in the f***ing fight and stop sneaking around just to grab some vehicles. (Unless he's blowing up assets, then its all good, otherwise, wtf) In battle I think is the only legitimate time to steal vehicles. If you are attacking and someone jumps out, or you rush into a base under assualt and grab something then its all good. The other team has to watch out.

If the vehicle is damaged you can steal it and race it to a safe spot and repair for yourself. ;)

The only rules that I wish would be enforced is No Using Rooftops - I can't get up there, so there's no way to get the beacon off. Also, usually that pod hack that flies across the map is used, and thats just bs. pods don't go far for a reason.

Another rule is base-raping the uncaps. Obviously if one team just blows and is getting wrecked its hard to stop. But to keep things somewhat fair the attacking team has to give the other team some space to move into position to attack back. The defending team is defending for a purpose, they aren't supposed to attack into uncaps, just attack to retake lost bases.

[RottnJP]

Slight derail, but how is that possible?
A commander doesn't have that much impact on the battle, which is why I find it a bit suspicious.
Is it from having your clan massacre uncoordinated opponents on public servers?

This is not meant as an attack on you, I am just curious.

Good commanding helps a lot. Team-mates that listen to orders, and trust that if you send them somewhere its for a reason. Plus, I'm not uber-soldier, and I never will be. Man, BF2 was my first FPS, and there's kids out there that have been playing FPS' since they were 2 years old. ;) I care more about my team winning than my own K : D ratio. So, I'm perfectly happy to spawn at the flag that needs defending, even if I have to suicide. Or draw the walker's attention so a team-mate can get to that rorsch gun, or can deliver a pilum enema. Or go cap silos when too many people are circle-jerking on the titan. The result? My K : D ain't great, but my W:L isn't too bad. Been pretty stable in the 2.1 to 2.3 range. If I switch teams, it's at the beginning of a round to join my buddies, or to go help the guys getting plastered to help even things up a bit.

[Kraxis]

Personally, I don't have much problem with stealing vehicles. Although, if you steal a vehicle from a near-empty non-cap base, when the real action is across the map somewhere, then thats just stupid. Get in the f***ing fight and stop sneaking around just to grab some vehicles. (Unless he's blowing up assets, then its all good, otherwise, wtf) In battle I think is the only legitimate time to steal vehicles. If you are attacking and someone jumps out, or you rush into a base under assualt and grab something then its all good. The other team has to watch out.

When the vehicles are in very low numbers and are vital victory, I say go for it. Even avoiding combat to get to them. Just don't ***** when you run at it and an enemy gets it first and you are stranded in the middle of nowhere while people complain you do nothing, for that is exactly what has happened.

However we all know the difference it can be when one side has both walkers in Tunis or Gibraltar, or when the EU captures the walker at Cerbere. The loss of a single guy for some seconds is more than justified.
The problem lies with the people that do nothing but sit around in the enemy UCB and wait for vehicles. Those people are more than problematic for both teams.

If I find myself in the vicinity of the enemy UCB and there is some armour standing around with no people in them, I go for it. But I never make it my main mission to steal.

[parish]

... So, I'm perfectly happy to spawn at the flag that needs defending, even if I have to suicide. That one sentence bears repeating. If you check my stats, you will see that I have almost 400 suicides. The reason being simply that when I see the shields on the titan go down, I check the mini-map to see if any of my teammates are on it to defend. If they are not there, then I will instantly suicide and re-spawn to defend it. If I see a console or two fall, I will suicide and re-spawn on the titan to defend it.

People act like committing suicide is a horribly thing, but it effects nothing.

It is soo easy to just kill yourself and re-spawn someplace useful. It also does not hurt if you have the score so that the -2 points for doing it does not take your score into the red.

[Dead_And_Gone]

I have 211 suicides myself, but I agree, If I have to ditch to save the TiTan, i most assuredly will. Stats are great for those that worry about that. I'm out to have fun, so whatever I need to do, I'll do it.