F-4?????

[12:0cLocK]

I thought I saw somewhere in one of these threads for AF that the F-4 phantom is going to be in the game! This can't be?!?! That damn thing is so outdated. Not to mention it never had any guns.

ok, NM, that was the Su-39 I was seeing. Sure as hell looked like an F-4 though. Disregard

[SilverHawk]

It did have a Internal Cannon after the F-4B and all those before then eventually had a Cannon mounted centerline where the main drop tank used to be. For your information the Germans used the F-4E ICE until 2002 and the Iseralis are STILL using the Super Phantom in the IAF. Outdated is the opinion of the poorly informed fool.

[bballplayafors]

It did have a Internal Cannon after the F-4B and all those before then eventually had a Cannon mounted centerline where the main drop tank used to be. For your information the Germans used the F-4E ICE until 2002 and the Iseralis are STILL using the Super Phantom in the IAF. Outdated is the opinion of the poorly informed fool.

It's outdated dude. It was decomissioned in like 1995 right? It's outdated. The F-16 would own it, and the F-16 isn't that great of a plane.

[SilverHawk]

ROFL! I love your Stupidity. The F-4E was decomissioned by 1985, the F-4G "Wild Weasel" was DE-COM after the Persian Gulf, they still have yet to make a decent replacement for it. All the Models I mentioned far surpass anything a F-4E could do. Perhaps you should study before you open your stupid mouth?

[12:0cLocK]

Silver hawk, first off your way outta line calling me a fool and bball stupid. The F-4 is outdated as Marilyn Monroe buddy, and that's all there is to it. And what do you mean they haven't found a replacement for it? Beleive me dude there are jets out there that can perform everything the F-4 could and then some. You say the Israelis and Germans still use the F-4? That's because they don't have the budgets for F-15's, F-18's, F-117's and so on.

Anyway, chill the F out dude, noone on this thread did anything to offend you, how about showing some respect?

[mofo.au]

I got to here in your article and lolled, i did!:eek:

"Although by now surpassed by both the F-15 Eagle and F-16 Fighting Falcon, the Phantoms nonetheless played a decisive role in operation "Peace for Galilee"."

[SilverHawk]

I never said the F-16C and F-15C weren't better, only the F-4 isn't as "outdated" as these nubs are saying. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Sgt. Thijsgun(NL)]

Can we return to the forum now please??

[lil_jimmy_norton]

I guess both of you are experts on flying millitary aircraft and know all the pros and cons of each one.... :rolleyes:

[12:0cLocK]

no, I happen to know a little about finance dude. I by no means work for Boeing. And am not claiming to know all this technical jargon about any of these aircraft. I'm simply stating A) The F-4 is outdated and has been for quite some time(this is me speaking from my dad's perspective who served 21 years in the USAF, I don't give a **** about what Europe does or does not have, so STFU about those nations already) and B) The European nations that Dip**** mentioned by no means sustain a budget that would enable them to realize an air force that the U.S.A. does. That's all I'm saying and this ****tard has to come on here and flame people that didn't do **** to him.

[lil_jimmy_norton]

no, I happen to know a little about finance dude. I by no means work for Boeing. And am not claiming to know all this technical jargon about any of these aircraft. I'm simply stating A) The F-4 is outdated and has been for quite some time(this is me speaking from my dad's perspective who served 21 years in the USAF, I don't give a **** about what Europe does or does not have, so STFU about those nations already) and B) The European nations that Dip**** mentioned by no means sustain a budget that would enable them to realize an air force that the U.S.A. does. That's all I'm saying and this ****tard has to come on here and flame people that didn't do **** to him.

IMO you acted just as bad as him. But whatever...

[D|sso]

Silver is corrent to an extent, but there's no reason to go around calling the mis-informed "nubs" and go overboard like you did. Any respect for you through your response is lost, just like that.

Anyway, 12:0clock, how could you possibly confuse the F4 with this pig?

http://www.bearcraft-online.com/museum/photos/b.65.3.jpg

[12:0cLocK]

Silver is corrent to an extent, but there's no reason to go around calling the mis-informed "nubs" and go overboard like you did. Any respect for you through your response is lost, just like that.

Anyway, 12:0clock, how could you possibly confuse the F4 with this pig?

http://www.bearcraft-online.com/museum/photos/b.65.3.jpg
This picture is how.................... http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/213/af4js.jpg

[-=EvC=-]

haha owned CTunit...

Arguing with a passion isn't enough... contrary to popular opinion, evidence or expertise is usually required... :)

[SilverHawk]

I did state my argument with evidence. Oh and 12 o'clock, that is a Q-5 Fantan in the picture. Perhaps you should learn more about aircraft besides what your daddy told you.

The reason the USAF retired ITS F-4Es was because they had EXTREME amounts of Flight Hours on their Airframes and they became too much to keep in the air and everyday more and more Phantoms became Hanger Queens (When it spends more time in maintence then in the air.) The Germans and the Iseralis kept their F-4s in service because they were brand new fresh air frames with less then 1,000 flight hours on them. Why buy a more expensive aircraft that needs a whole new logistics set-up when you can update aircraft you already have to comparable performance with no effect on your logistics?

The F-4F ICE and the Super Phantom had the BVR abilities of F-16Cs and F-15Cs while being able to finally contest a dogfight with it's old nemsis the MiG-21bis Fishbed. I see no reason to stop using an airframe simply because the un-informed "public" doesn't think it's cool.

Edit : I thought I put this in for laughs, but I WORK for the USAF as a ATC. Airman 1st Class Kruger NOT at your service.

[D|sso]

This picture is how.................... http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/213/af4js.jpg

LOL..that's not even a Su39..

[SilverHawk]

I could see if the Su-39 was mistaked for the Su-25, since their airframes are almost exactly alike due to the fact the Su-39 is just an upgrade to the Su-25. But the Su-25/39 confused with the Q-5? There goes any credibility that you had in this argument of the F-4 being "out-dated".

[-=EvC=-]

yeh silverhawk I was more referring to ppl commenting on European budgets and all other stuff... I agree with you on the F4 tho

[MouseNo4]

Time to bring out the popcorn boys. This ones gunna be great.

[mofo.au]

I never said the F-16C and F-15C weren't better, only the F-4 isn't as "outdated" as these nubs are saying. Nothing more, nothing less.

Mate, I see what your sayin, I love the Phantom, The F-15E, The F Falcon, **** any jet! but the fact of the matter remains, (unfortunately). They`re all Outdated!. Everything that has a 40-50 year old Airframe Design. Compared to the new 10-20 year old F-22, and *shudder* F-35 are:cry: Sad but true.....

[12:0cLocK]

LOL..that's not even a Su39..
Who the F*** said it was a Su-39? sure as $hit wasn't me. It's a picture of a new jet in AF minus a title and that's enough to confuse anyone who isn't a smartass flyboy with a PHD in arrogance like Silver. And Silverdick, I don't give a F*** what u are in the USAF, I was a 31R in the Army and actually had to sweat for my paycheck and GI bill. Just because you serve or have served doesn't give you the right to $hit on civilians. And unless your a PJ or TACP, your nothing but a pansy *** flyboy.

[SilverHawk]

What does that have to do with....F-4s? Oh and I thank you for catching bullets for the Air Force peeps that came before me. But sadly, it's the Marines that do the REAL hard chargin and the Air Force is ALWAYS tasked with bailing out you Army Boys.

As for the F-22A, it's never going to be made in enough numbers to completely replace the F-15C and F-16C Squadrons. The order has been cut from around 850ish to about 170ish now. All because Congress doesn't "See a Need" to buy a Cold War Legacy Platform in number because it "Doesn't apply force correctly" against the current threats the United States faces right now.

FYI : To those that diss the USAF, trying living without most Information Age technology. THAT's is how it would be without the USAF pushing for bigger and better tech. I didn't see the Army falling over itself for GPS Technology, or Advanced Computer Systems. But your all more then willing to take the hard labors of the USAF to make sure your bottom of the barrel High School Grads don't get lost in the forest or to use our computer systems in your new age Future Land Warrior System and it's modern day spin offs.

Edit : That post on the Su-39 was concern with you mistaking it for an F-4 by another poster, then you somehow suggested that a Q-5 Fantan was the reason why you made the mis-ID, when the airframes aren't even remotely simillar.

Oh and keep using profanity as well, I see how you love to use it so much in what little posting you have made, most of it in an offensive manner. Keep reinforcing the Army Grunt Stigma, Hoo-RAH!

[TooL]

Clint Eastwood once said something to the effect:

"Opinions are like assholes - everybody has one!"

:D

[SilverHawk]

Say something constructive to the discussion or go away. It sadden's me that people feel the need to come in here and de-mean an arguement because it flies right over their heads.

[Rafterman]

So what's this I hear about F4s in AF?

[Akuma]

LOL:laugh:

[12:0cLocK]

So what's this I hear about F4s in AF?
SNAFU

[D|sso]

Who the F*** said it was a Su-39? sure as $hit wasn't me.

uhh.....you did.

ok, NM, that was the Su-39 I was seeing. Sure as hell looked like an F-4 though. Disregard

This picture is how.................... http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/213/af4js.jpg

[-=EvC=-]

hey mofo are you by any chance the same person that was (or is) [e-MOD] Mofo?

[Beowulf(AUS)]

Guys, can we agree that the F4 Phantom II was a excellent plane made in record numbers. In fact the largest production run of any plane since WW2.
I remember when the R.A.A.F got them in 1970 as a stop gap until the Air force received the F111. A lot of people suggested at the time that we cancel the F111 contract and buy more F4's.
Internal cannon was introduced with the E variant......

Speaking of McDonnell Douglas, has anyone noticed that the Harrier hasnt turned up in any screenies of late......Are EA removing the AV-8 from the booster?

[mofo.au]

hey mofo are you by any chance the same person that was (or is) [e-MOD] Mofo?

Nahh dude, wrong bloke.

[-=EvC=-]

aha righto... sheesh i've just been reading that paris hilton thread OMFG

[Skwurl]

Speaking of McDonnell Douglas, has anyone noticed that the Harrier hasnt turned up in any screenies of late......Are EA removing the AV-8 from the booster?

I was wondering that exact thing...

[warchild.IrishRage]

the phantom's owned in bfv ;)

[Metal_Storm]

Say something constructive to the discussion or go away. It sadden's me that people feel the need to come in here and de-mean an arguement because it flies right over their heads.


Or what? Your going to internet punch someone.....ooohhiiiiiiiiii :laugh:

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

ROFL! STFU, nub! No other platform right now that the USAF operates does the Wild Weasel/SEAD duty as well as the F-4G used to, the F-16C is just a stop gap. I'm not sorry if I called you stupid for being stupid, because you are stupid, follow? You go around spouting **** about aircraft you don't know, your going to have the hammer dropped on your nub ***.

FYI : The Germans operated the F-4E ICE because it was DAMN GOOD, not because they didn't "have enough money" same for the Super Phantom the Iseralis used.

Here's some links so you can educate your stupid self.

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_362.shtml
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2848/phantom3.htm

the EA-6B prowler and F18 compose the current US wild-weasle platform

[bballplayafors]

ROFL! I love your Stupidity. The F-4E was decomissioned by 1985, the F-4G "Wild Weasel" was DE-COM after the Persian Gulf, they still have yet to make a decent replacement for it. All the Models I mentioned far surpass anything a F-4E could do. Perhaps you should study before you open your stupid mouth?

F-15E Strike Eagle

[FordMustang]

F-15E Strike Eagle

an F-15e can't jam radar

[ImgSunscreen]

Too funny.

[D|sso]

an F-15e can't jam radar

Really?

The F-15E Strike Eagle's tactical electronic warfare system or TEWS is an integrated countermeasures system. Radar, radar jammer, warning receiver and chaff/flare dispenser all work together to detect, identify and counter threats posed by an enemy.

If the warning receiver detects a threat before the radar jammer, the warning receiver will inform the jammer of the threat. A Strike Eagle's TEWS can jam radar systems operating in high frequencies, such as radar used by short-range surface-to-air missiles, antiaircraft artillery and airborne threats.

[SilverHawk]

The F-15E can only jam the local airspace around it, and most fighter craft can do that as well with ALQ-119 Jammer Pods or their internal Jamming Suites such as what the F-16C has. Only the EA-6B Prowler and the EF-111B Raven are capable of jamming radar signals and communcations in a much larger space, allowing strike packages to slip in passed SAM Search Radars. The USAF retired their EF-111B back in the early 90's and has yet to make a suitable replacement, the USN-AF is replaceing their aging EA-6Bs with EA-18G Growlers operating in the SEAD/Jammer Role.

Nothing in the USAF inventory besides the F-16C/J even COMES close to how well the F-4G performed in the SEAD Role. Most Aircraft that can mount AGM-88 HARMs don't have the required equipment to aquire a target for the HARM, it has to self aquire in flight, allowing the enemy radar operator to shut off his Radar before the HARM can aquire such a signal, unlike already having the signal locked if the aircraft had the equipment to do so.

Aircraft able to deploy AGM-88 HARM at 100% :

1. F-16C/J Fighting Falcon
2. EA-6B Prowler
3. EA-18G Growler

Aircraft able to deploy AGM-88 at all :

1. F-15E Strike Eagle
2. F-117A Nighthawk
3. F/A-18C Hornet and E / Super Hornet
4. F-15C Eagle (On Paper)
5. F-16C Fighting Falcon
6. A-10A Thunderbolt II
7. AV-8B Harrier II (On Paper)

[D|sso]

My statement is valid and only in response his claim that "an F-15e can't jam radar."

[Sweetpants]

And unless your a PJ or TACP, your nothing but a pansy *** flyboy.

I saw this and had to register just to laugh. I am in AFSOC (Air Force Special Operations Command) as a AC-130U Sensor Operator. I am sure when you Army folks are taking fire and a gunship rolls in overhead and drops a 105MM shell within 750 meters to takeout the threat you aren't calling us panzy *** fly boys. I will agree with you on the PJ part, but TACPs no, I can't. They do a great job, but that is just to carry a ruck and aim a laser at a target. Yes, I know they do more, but that about sums it up. Ever heard of CCT? I would say you definately forgot them on your little list there. 2 years of training before they go operational.

And as far as the plane issue, arguements canbe made both ways. But I am sure the Israeli pilots in their F-4s, and yes they have F-15s as well, will keep up with nearly any USAF pilot in an F-16/F-15. They have the best pilots in the world hands down.

[12:oc7ock]

Sweetpants, yes I was Army and i'm sure your aware of the nature of trashtalking about other branches that comes with being in a specific component. My dad was in the USAF for 20 years and I respect him more than anyone besides my mother. In th eend its all the same flag. And if I was on the ground in Iraq, Afghanistan or any other region where our troops are operating with a present danger; then yes I'd get a hard on every time u boys flew over with fire suppression. Unfortuanately I didn't get to serve overseas with any of the brave folks all over the globe now.

Anyway, no pun intended Airman.

[Mobdawwg]

who cares, i want my harrier.

[12:oc7ock]

who cares, i want my harrier.
That's a wwhole other topic. Personally i'd rather see the A10 then the Harrier. F35 already does what the harrier can and then some.

[SilverHawk]

Sweet Pants, don't be a lurker! We ain't going to bite, at least I'm not anyway! ;)

[abtomat74]

It IS outdated in that it is no longer produced, has a radar cross signature the size of a football field in comparison to todays planes.

Likewise, the B-52 is severely outdated too...yet we still use them.

Outdated and obsolete are not interchangeable terms. Both planes I mentioned ARE outdated, but not obsolete.

[SilverHawk]

The F-4 and the F-15 have comparable RCS. I don't know where you get the size of a football field.

[abtomat74]

The F-4 and the F-15 have comparable RCS. I don't know where you get the size of a football field.

I said "in comparison to..." Meaning the RCS of todays planes is exponentially smaller in relation to.

Obviously it isn't actual football sized, but I'll agree I could have used better words.

[otester]

Hope they include MiG-21 in this, sweet aircraft :-)

[12:oc7ock]

Hope they include MiG-21 in this, sweet aircraft :-)
Nope, the aircraft selection is already made and the booster is already developed and the mig-21 is not in it. I don't think. Don't feel like checking on it.

[otester]

Operation Peacekeeper Mod includes it which is cool.

So anyways, got a link to BF Armoured Fury on EA website?

[Spc.Gordon]

It IS outdated in that it is no longer produced, has a radar cross signature the size of a football field in comparison to todays planes.

Likewise, the B-52 is severely outdated too...yet we still use them.

Outdated and obsolete are not interchangeable terms. Both planes I mentioned ARE outdated, but not obsolete.



maybe the B-52 created during the Cold War todays B-52 has barely none of the same airframe of the orginal, my dad is AF, 0-6 to be exact and its possible for the B-52 to be around another 50 years because it's good at its job and extremely flexible so know your facts

[abtomat74]

maybe the B-52 created during the Cold War todays B-52 has barely none of the same airframe of the orginal, my dad is AF, 0-6 to be exact and its possible for the B-52 to be around another 50 years because it's good at its job and extremely flexible so know your facts

Yea yea, I saw that Discovery Planet special about the B-52 too...so go peddle your "I'm an expert because I know someone" story elsewhere.

The plane is old, they keep it because it isn't economical to deisgn a new airplane. It was cheaper to upgrade them. It still is boulder among atoms as far as radars are concerned. Making its design...OLD and OUTDATED.

[otester]

Honestly stop bashing 'old' aircraft, if they fit the purpose they are needed for and perform then they are fine, like the F4 and MiG-29, if they can still fight then they're worth keeping. STFU and stop bashing planes because they're 'outdated'.

[imported_xRandoMx]

Not like we need an f4 wild weasel in BF2 anyways. The sam sites aren't even a threat to the experienced jet jockey.

Oh, I saw the Blue Angels buzzing around NYC yesterday, was pretty cool. They had their c-130 with them. Also saw a Warthog and a couple other different birds.

[otester]

If you got a phantom or any mig and put the latest of US/Russian Electronics in it, it will still be a formidable opponent. The ones in Iraq/Syria are useless because of they're lack of funding and access to latest systems.

[12:oc7ock]

If you got a phantom or any mig and put the latest of US/Russian Electronics in it, it will still be a formidable opponent. The ones in Iraq/Syria are useless because of they're lack of funding and access to latest systems.
F-4's in Iraq? what?

[otester]

MiGs in Iraq i ment (sorry if a bit misleading).

[[HT]137[CSi]]

dude wtf are all of you idiots arguing about?

[Archer.]

137[CSi]']dude wtf are all of you idiots arguing about?
Its called "reading the damned thread."

12oclock, stop bashing the F4... F4 is out of production, but hey, it it NOT obsolete. Just stick on brand new electronics,like someone said, and it will probably have a good chance of taking out a F16... Correct me if I'm wrong, though, experts.:rolleyes:

[abtomat74]

I'm not bashing either one. I've loved and built nearly every military plane imaginable since I was a kid...back then.

The F-4 was and still is one of my favorites. As far as new games go, it should not be included in anything beyond Vietnam era, unless the game involves a specific event in more recent history involving that plane. (i.e. the F-4 as Weasel duty in GW1).

[otester]

Almost any plane has a chance in taking out an F16 if it has the right electronics.

For example the old prop Corsair, if fitted with AIM-120's and latest systems (lol) it could knock an F16 out at long range, it'd be useless in actual cannon dogfighting thou :cool:

Basically just a missile launcher