TotalBF2 Reviews PRMM v0.3

[[MyIS]Spawndemon]

Our very own Jofaba is back again today with his latest mod review, this time for the Project Reality Mini-Mod v0.3 (http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72657). As always, the review covers many topics about the new release and offers an unbiased opinion of the mod. Here's a portion of the review:

Do you want to play Conquest? How about Conquest? Oh, and my personal favorite; Conquest. Yeah, I'm pretty sick of it too. After playing for about 5 months, I've grown tired of the free-for-all attitude and complete chaos that non-stop Conquest has infected an otherwise pretty fantastic game with.

There's no doubt that this limitation has placed a huge burden on the modding community. So it couldn't have been easy, but Project Reality not only managed to bring two highly anticipated game modes to life, but they also surprised the community with a completely new and unique game mode. And of course, there's the familiar Conquest, which I was just complaining about, but is sure to feel a little fresher whenever new content is thrown it's way.

Click here to read the full review! (http://www.totalbf2.com/page.php?do=reviewprmm)

<a href="http://www.totalbf2.com/images.php?img=images/news/168.jpg"><img src="/images/news/thumb_168.jpg"></a> <a href="http://www.totalbf2.com/images.php?img=images/news/767.jpg"><img src="/images/news/thumb_767.jpg"></a> <a href="http://www.totalbf2.com/images.php?img=images/news/848.jpg"><img src="/images/news/thumb_848.jpg"></a>

Be sure to read the entire interview (http://www.totalbf2.com/page.php?do=reviewprmm) and post your feedback in here. To learn more and download PRMM v0.3, click here (http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72657).

[troybob]

i don't get the "realism" of a chopper doing a nose-dive to kill a hummer......

[mikezrocks]

looks great i will get it

[666PROTECTOR]

1 spawning times are killing this mod
2chopers are not realistick give my my hardcor DC choper
3 game is beeing balanced its not realistic

sorry for mybad eng im not from uk/usa

[imoody]

I think these reviews could do with more reviewing and less overviewing the mod in question. Beyond that, all I've got to say is that none of the implementations of helicopters in any BF game/mod to date have been "realistic". You kind of need a joystick, pedals and all kinds of other crap to do that. And who really wants realism? Real helicopters are a ***** to fly.

[Jofaba]

I think these reviews could do with more reviewing and less overviewing the mod in question.

Not to take away from the mod in discussion, but since it's an ungodly hour I thought it worth mentioning that these kind of comments are VERY WELCOME. I am the sole writer of the review, and my desire is to give you, the reader, what you want. Any suggestions are highly welcomed. You can only help me give you a better reading/learning experience.

[DoubleVee]

I think the reviews on TBF2, is an awesome idea. Keep it up Jofaba!
I don't know about the mod, I'm not in a mood for extreme realism, I'll just wait for their first PR release to see the Brits, etc. :D

I definitely have played the map in the first screenshot(left)before..I remember it, cuz I was so impressed by the quality of it. I downloaded it from BF2Files.com, it was just a custom map, I think it was based on a real location from Google Earth - I'm just making sure that you guys didn't steal it.

Also, I was thinking of the idea of having Kubra Dam full of water, and there it is...PR are reading my mind!! :)

[ikito]

i think its kinda stupid to loose 3 points if you get killed in a vehicle..

[The Defeatest]

The mods idea is great, but it just makes people camp and then, Bang! your dead, and then you start all over. And then some one hides a mile away and bang your dead! and then again............ I know thats kinda the way it works in the real world, but it's not much fun and extremely frustrating, not to mention the 30 sec spawn time.

[Mobdawwg]

nice, looks good

[military1]

cool pics.

[eggman]

Hey Guys,

This is eggman from the PR team. Thanks very much for taking the time to review the mod. Keep in mind it's at v0.3 and we've got a long way to go and a lot to learn to make it the mod we want it to be.

One thing bugs me as much as the length of the spawn times bugs other people....... the 30s is MANDOWN time, not SPAWN time. So uh.... stay close to a medic ;)

In terms of losing points, you actually lose points based on the worth of the vehicle. Jeeps are 3 points, tanks are 6, aircraft are 8 iirc. We'll probably be doubling the penalties for losing vehicles in a future release as the Project Reality scoring system allows people to earn a lot more points than normal vBF2.

Vehicles are intended to be an asset and, aside from being on long respawn timers, players should take care of them (at least that's our view).

I think the review was pretty good, but... it reads like you played for about 2 or 3 hours. To be honest it takes a good three or four multiple hour sessions to get a feel for PR. Otherwise it's just frustrating.

And uh..... no we didn't steal any maps heh. The map is CP Abadan and the mapper is Ali-Tom a member of the PR Dev team.

It would also be good to have some kinda standard mod reviewing system where you guys (tbf2) rate a mod in a few categories and give it a score out of 10 in each category, then a total score... basically the same approach as pretty much every other game review site out there.

Thanks again for taking the time to check out the mod and write up a review.

egg

[[MyIS]Spawndemon]

Thanks for the suggetions eggman, you have some good points. I'll talk it over with Jofaba and we'll see what we can do with the next review. :)

[imoody]

Eggman,

Any basis for reviewing Battlefield 2 would be based on a comparison with other released mods for BF2 - and they're all still in beta. I don't think it really make sense to say: "yeah, this mod's ok. I'll give it a 7/10, but it's in beta and it looks like it'll be awesome in the future, so 8/10!" I'm not implying anything along scoring [of your mod] lines, I'm just saying it makes much more sense to review a product as is rather than as it will be. PC Gamer, for instance, has been doing this staunchly for years (admittedly with a few exceptions for particularly launch-blighted MMOs).

Reading your comments and other's, I'm also wondering about the level of realism you aspire to. If it's "as realistic as it can be given the confines of the BF2 game engine", then why do medics carry magical defibrillators? Why can you respawn at all, for that matter (I'm thinking of CS)?

I'm not sure this is the time or place for this kind of comment, but here goes: I think it'd be awesome if you guys removed the Divine Defibrillator of Hippocrates entirely. It'd also be awesome if rather or perhaps in addition to the bleeding system, you guys introduced some kind of ability impairment system, like that of Operation: Flashpoint.

P.S. - Unless I'm directly swearing at you, what I'm saying isn't a personal attack, so PLEASE don't take it as such.

[Edited for italics]

[-X$B-Trivium]

im downloading this right now..it takes a long time but i hope its worth it..the guns look realistic on the site and i like the little bird choppers..ill try this tonight hope to see some of u guys on.

[imoody]

Also, I would prefer it if the reviews were kept entirely text-based (ie, without a numeric scoring system). I don't think a few numbers can really sum up a mod, especially in the fairly turbulent sea of new releases. Computer Gaming World is doing this, and it seems to be working very well for them.

[-X$B-Trivium]

i just tried it..its alright..in the suburban there could be 6 passenger seats with windows so u can do killer drive byes..and the little bird is a little hard to manuver

[Eglaerinion]

It's ten times better than vanilla, not as realistic and balanced as it could be but still it's a hell of alot less frustrating than vanilla. It's more about skill and intelligent play than who can dive to the ground the fastest and open up. When I see someone I hit them not the ******** where you empty half a mag in someone for them to just turn around and shoot you in the head.

Squads are essential you can no longer rambo your way around the map which is sadly what 90% of the battlefield players do. Get in a good squad and you won't die alot. I also like the penalty system because it makes you more aware that you lose crucial assets that won't replaced in the second they get destroyed.

Points that need improvement are definately some sort of class restrictions for certain classes (support for instance) and maybe a different class layout.

PR is for the men, vanilla for the boys. ;)

[00SoldierofFortune00]

I think the people who are having a bad time playing the mod are the ones jumping right into the game without getting a good squad together. Using teamwork is the whole point of this mod. IF you run around and rambo, you will not get anywhere.

I suggest if it is your first time playing the mod, you get squaded up, have good class diversity in your squad(Yes, dont all be snipers or one class, but be medics, support, AT, assault), and use cover often while moving. The game is simple if people play more tactically and slower.

Yes, the mod isn't perfect, but IMO it is a whole lot better than vanilla right now and will just get better. You have the new levels, weapon additions and tweaks, added vehicles/changes etc. Give it more time and you will learn how to play it correctly in time and may just appreciate it more than vanilla.

And this mod isn't just for people who like reality. If you are tired of using many bullets to kill your enemy, conquest, and generally more idiots on your team, then the mod is just for you. And it also has much more teamwork than you will find in VBF2, and if not, your team has it in for them.

[Rhino]

i do think this review could have been abit more reviewing?

[antseezee]

Your best review yet. Captures the essence, perception from the BF2 community on this mod, and displays all of the features in an in-depth manner. Great work.

[$kelet0r]

I uninstalled it after about 3-4 hours of play
It's not realistic at all
It's not fun
It's boring as hell
The littlebird handles like a flying turd
The extraction mode doesnt work the way it is

If you want realism and teamwork play the excellent and beautiful Operation Peacekeeper
If you want fun and great gameplay play the fast paced and awesome US Intervention
PRMM just isnt much good
And if anyone wants to flame me about teamwork and realism and slower paced gameplay based on that, look at the game I am promoting in my sig first

[[4TA]B|Pvt.Mickd]

i love this mod. i have converted guys who are point whores to this mod.

nuff said

[=DNC=SYSEX73]

Its the belfast Gang vs The Dublin gang.

I think the MOD is great, and I cant wait to get more time to play it. New game modes are really important at this point.:cool:

[dommafia]

I uninstalled it after about 3-4 hours of play
It's not realistic at all
It's not fun
It's boring as hell
The littlebird handles like a flying turd
The extraction mode doesnt work the way it is

If you want realism and teamwork play the excellent and beautiful Operation Peacekeeper
If you want fun and great gameplay play the fast paced and awesome US Intervention
PRMM just isnt much good
And if anyone wants to flame me about teamwork and realism and slower paced gameplay based on that, look at the game I am promoting in my sig first

Gotta love unbiased criticism... :rolleyes: cough.

[$kelet0r]

Gotta love unbiased criticism... :rolleyes: cough.wasn't meant to be unbiased. I formed an opinion on the game after an extended playtest on the various gamemodes on 3 different servers on a wide range of maps. I didn't like what I played at all - for a game that stresses realism all it delivered was quicker deaths. It just doesnt compare to the quality of Operation Peacekeeper (which you should play if you like realism - it takes skill to kill someone) or the fun of USI. My opinions of course but I'd be very suprised that there aren't others who are very disappointed considering the (unjustified) hype PRMM has generated

[YoMo]

I think these reviews could do with more reviewing and less overviewing the mod in question.

I agree with that. In general people like to read reviews to see if their opinion is the same as the reviewer's. This review was more or less a glorified changelog with little to no opinions in it. It was a nice and well written article, just not worthy of the title review the way I look at it. Keep on doing this though because I am one of the people that likes to compare my own opinion with other's :)

[[4TA]B|Pvt.Mickd]

Its the belfast Gang vs The Dublin gang.


lol i didnt notice that.

I played OPk and while it feels like a totally different game than vanilla bf2, i dont feel it offers a more realistic style of play.

[trogdor1289]

To answer Imoodys and skeletors questions. This is a reailsm mod based on the BF2 engine therefore there are some things that are not able to be done. Also skeleotr your comments are totally biased so are mine I happen to love PR just like you hate it so that's what it is. But according to our Mil-advisors who have been in the military and have given advice to how to make the mod more realistic it is very realistic. Anyone else who feels like playing this mod i encourage you to download it and sign up for our forums at projectreality.com
By the way half a mag to kill somone isn't realistic.

[T.Nova]

I find Project Reality an extremely fun modification. You learn to enjoy it once you know how to play the game well. You have to give the learning curve some effort too. Lets not forget this mod is still in its early stages. Some people will find it boring, but some of us like it this way. Its slow enough to make for a tactical experience. Unlike Vanilla where the minute your spawn you have to conduct a 360 Hop to see if anyone is shooting at you. As it is, PR is porbably the most unique mod on the scene at the moment.

[dTP-NiGHTWoLF]

By the way half a mag to kill somone isn't realistic.


LOL yeh thats true.

All that operation peacekeeper did was add a few new models and stuff, no real change on the gameplay of BF2 itself. Skeletor you are quite obvioustly one of these people who bunnyhop and talk in l33tSp3Ak. I bet during your time playing you didnt go in a squad? Didnt play as a team? Were expecting far to much from a mini-mod?

Back on topic
I love this mod, been playing it for months and its amazing. I never hardly play vBF2 any more. The longer spawn times fair enough can be well annoying but it makes you appreciate the time your alive more, working in a squad one or two guys as medic and you have nothing to worry about. Same for the loosing points if a vehicle is destroyed, use it more tactically and you'l be sweet.

[$kelet0r]

A little criticism never hurts - if there was none you would just get a useless sausage fest and no useful information.
I have to hand to you guys though on marketing the mod - mighty impressive I have to say
I will definitely reconsider PRMM in the future if it makes substantial changes to its gameplay and maps. My biggest problem was that yesterday I was topping the server every round towards the end. How? By camping somewhere smart. I was playing smart by doing so, racking up kills, staying behind cover, giving covering fire to teammates who were trying to extract the VIP. But I thought I had left counterstrike behind when I bought BF2 - the gameplay was mindnumbing attrition - horrible, boring and unintense.:(
You guys should really play Operation Flashpoint to get an idea of where you are failing in this mod. While camping may be realistic - it's not going to work in a game when instead of having round that last hours, you have ones that barely last 15 minutes. Something that should be addressed.
The extraction mode has severe problems in its implementation. Warfare theory states that it is prudent to have at least 3-1 advantage when attacking an objective - so why not give the attacking team armour to balance things. Allow the other ground forces to secure flagpoints rather than let them be uncappable enemy spawn points for the whole round.
And I still dispute the realism aspect that you keep mentioning - where is it? Where is the difference? All I saw were frustrating tempermental weapons which required no skill to use. The weapon loadouts realistic? Bullet damage realistic? The vehicle setup and handling realistic? You've got to be kidding - something else you might want to address, the fact that the proposed realism isnt really there at all...

[$kelet0r]

LOL yeh thats true.

All that operation peacekeeper did was add a few new models and stuff, no real change on the gameplay of BF2 itself. Skeletor you are quite obvioustly one of these people who bunnyhop and talk in l33tSp3Ak. I bet during your time playing you didnt go in a squad? Didnt play as a team? Were expecting far to much from a mini-mod?
I don't think you can read
And if anyone wants to flame me about teamwork and realism and slower paced gameplay based on that, look at the game I am promoting in my sig firstDo you have any idea what game that might be? Or what the words Operation Flashpoint mean? Go back to your hole troll.


To all the PRMM fans - I am not trying to be an ***, if you wanted constructive criticism at all well I have given it. I would love to see PRMM become awesome - I look forward to the day when it is. But to say that the mod is realistic or slow paced or team-orientated doesnt cut it especially to someone who has been playing Operation Flashpoint since 2001 - PRMM just doesnt compare on any level when it should be striving to emulate the genius of the former

overlook the doublepost :)

[[4TA]B|Pvt.Mickd]

to be fair, i have read critisim of the mod. The guys who make it by all accounts when they have replied have taken it well on the chin.

Also this isnt operation flaspoint, as someone said above they can only work with the engine they have.

To see what the community thinks in a kinda unbiased way, do a seach in http://www.game-monitor.com/search.php?country=&game=bf2 for opk, usi and prmm, as they say people vote with their feet.

[Canuck]

I figure out how to find these mods in the game-monitor??

[Eden]

A little criticism never hurts - if there was none you would just get a useless sausage fest and no useful information.
I have to hand to you guys though on marketing the mod - mighty impressive I have to say
I will definitely reconsider PRMM in the future if it makes substantial changes to its gameplay and maps. My biggest problem was that yesterday I was topping the server every round towards the end. How? By camping somewhere smart. I was playing smart by doing so, racking up kills, staying behind cover, giving covering fire to teammates who were trying to extract the VIP. But I thought I had left counterstrike behind when I bought BF2 - the gameplay was mindnumbing attrition - horrible, boring and unintense.:(
You guys should really play Operation Flashpoint to get an idea of where you are failing in this mod. While camping may be realistic - it's not going to work in a game when instead of having round that last hours, you have ones that barely last 15 minutes. Something that should be addressed.
The extraction mode has severe problems in its implementation. Warfare theory states that it is prudent to have at least 3-1 advantage when attacking an objective - so why not give the attacking team armour to balance things. Allow the other ground forces to secure flagpoints rather than let them be uncappable enemy spawn points for the whole round.


I'm begining to think you havent even played PRMM for more then an hour.

Adding armor to xtration mode... you have to be jokeing, its the most stupidest thing I have ever heard. xtract games are not ment to be very long, most last about 5-10 minutes give the US armor the game wouldnt last more then 3 minutes. Now thats not saying that xtraction mode couldnt do with a bit of tweeking, there is several things that could be improved on and you can see this by the feedback they recived on the PR forums.


And I still dispute the realism aspect that you keep mentioning - where is it?
Where is the difference? All I saw were frustrating tempermental weapons which required no skill to use. The weapon loadouts realistic? Bullet damage realistic? The vehicle setup and handling realistic? You've got to be kidding - something else you might want to address, the fact that the proposed realism isnt really there at all...
Are you a millarety advisor? I dont think you are, i might also point out that you havent actualy said why PRMM might not be realistic, you have just put out a lot of questions then said "You've got to be kidding" that isnt feedback atall, its just a poor atempt to try and discourage people away from PRMM and towards another mod.

Also take into consideration that no mod, be it PRMM or OPK can be 100% realistic, thats not what its about. Project Reality is being made to make a game that is as realistic as posable without takeing away the fun.

I might also mention that PRMM is the most played BF2 mod to date.

[[4TA]B|Pvt.Mickd]

just search for their acronym in teh server seach list. opk=operation pease keep, usi= US intervention and prmm = project realiy

[dTP-NiGHTWoLF]

This is BF2 not frigging OFP, these guys have done well for what they can do using the bf2 engine.

[Canuck]

just search for their acronym in teh server seach list. opk=operation pease keep, usi= US intervention and prmm = project realiy

Thanks, that worked.

[eggman]

If you want reality at the semantic level that's being theoretically discussed, talk to your local recruiting agency, there's several governments around the world looking for help ;)

If we did want to simulate realtiy .. where do we draw the line? Do we prevent respawning (some ppl woudl say we already have heh) ? Do we make you dig ditches in game for 2 years then one day your limbs scatter all over the screen when you are on your way to get some breakfast and the mod uninstalls itself?

This is an early stage of the mods life and we're balancing gameplay and reaslism factors to the best of our abilities in terms of making judgements about what is realistic, what is fun and what we can achieve within the constraints of the engine and our spare time and skillsets.

Extraction definitely needs some work. Aside from Battleracer (which is difficult to compare game modes with) I am not aware of any other team out there that has shipped a very "alternative" game mode for BF2.

I am not saying there won't be .. I can't wait for more from the other mod teams out there. What I am getting at is that there's a learning to be done from trying new things and we're learning and continuing to try new things.

We're pretty clear there is a lot that can be done to improve the 3 game modes we use that are not found in vBF2. We're committed to continuing to improve them as well as add new game modes (we have at least a couple more that will be in a near future release).

You can't compare PR to things like Armed Assault and Red Orchestra on an apples to apples basis. Those are both *very* mature products (as in several years of development) and both are significantly better funded than we are (I think Requiem pays the website bills and I pay the bills for the company that hosts our code repository).

I thought OpFP was a great game in it's day (that suffered from some HUGE flaws). I am really looking forward to more from that team.

If you think your criticism is coming across as constructive .. well uh... perhaps considering the necessaity to caveat your statements with "if you want to flame me..." might be a bit of a clue ;)

egg

[eggman]

btw to search for PR game using game-monitor use "pr" and not "prmm". We changed that a lil while back.

egg

[Doctor Venture]

After playing with several of the new mods released, I had to give PRMM the best score out of all of them. They have released a quality mod, with quality maps that where well thought out.
My Scores of the current mods.

PRMM 6/10
OPK 5/10
USI 4/10
Battleracer 3/10

I can't wait for POE2, dCON, and FH2.

[$kelet0r]

I'm begining to think you havent even played PRMM for more then an hour.

Adding armor to xtration mode... you have to be jokeing, its the most stupidest thing I have ever heard. xtract games are not ment to be very long, most last about 5-10 minutes give the US armor the game wouldnt last more then 3 minutes. Now thats not saying that xtraction mode couldnt do with a bit of tweeking, there is several things that could be improved on and you can see this by the feedback they recived on the PR forums.No need for the aggro buddy...well I suppose it begs the question how often have you seen the US win on extraction mode maps? On one server I was playing with same group of players at all times because autoswitch was off. And these guys were serious teamworkers against a load of lone wolves - planning their extraction scenarios, using the littlebird for reconnaisance and so on. They didnt win a single round not even on Mashtuur. Worse was the fact that the radio chatter claimed that this was a regular thing with one player as commander who knew what he was doing saying that he had only seen the US win once on the map with the large bridge i forget the name and there was armour on that map to boot. I can't see armour ruining it unless of course you are one who believes that there should be no armour at all on maps like Karkand in BF2 in the first place...i don't know and it doesnt matter - when something doesnt work something is wrong


Are you a millarety advisor? I dont think you are, i might also point out that you havent actualy said why PRMM might not be realistic, you have just put out a lot of questions then said "You've got to be kidding" that isnt feedback atall, its just a poor atempt to try and discourage people away from PRMM and towards another mod.

Also take into consideration that no mod, be it PRMM or OPK can be 100% realistic, thats not what its about. Project Reality is being made to make a game that is as realistic as posable without takeing away the fun.
Never claimed I was. However, if military advisors (which is code for anyone who has enlisted in the army more than likely having not seen combat at all) advised on this mod then why are the rounds so short. Surely a slower paced mod would require battles lasting hours not mere minutes? But seeing as you brought it up when most of the soldiers are wearing high tech body armour ingame, how are the PRMM bullets (weapon ballistics) realistic? How is driving and firing a tank at the same time realistic (vehicle handling)? How is giving the AT class a pistol realistic (weapon loadouts)? In fact I challenge YOU to tell me what is so realistic about this mod - convince me, sell me the product. As for PRMMs success, well I must complement the marketing of it again - very impressive effort. Its popularity, justified or not, is because of the amount of its supporters advertising it NOT because it is just that good.

If you think your criticism is coming across as constructive .. well uh... perhaps considering the necessaity to caveat your statements with "if you want to flame me..." might be a bit of a cluereally? because gee I thought it was because saying something that contradicted the group mentality might get some blind aggression rather than a constructive answer. Or that I might be accused of being a bunnyhopping leet speaker from Quake or CS1.5...oh wait I was. Nice going eggy - you're a posterboy of maturity for your mod. If your mod had realism at even the skin layer level than I might be convinced but hey if you can't deliver it's your wasted efforts not mine - if your mod refuses to acknowledge the superior efforts of DoD, RO and OpFlash by claiming you can't compare them well you've already admitted defeat and resigned to being second rate. Again I'd love to see PRMM be awesome but well you seem to have confirmed what I hoped wasnt the case.

[Jaxx]

It looks awsome problem is it is taking HRS to download! LOL

-Torrent speeds suck for this!

[Eglaerinion]

It looks awsome problem is it is taking HRS to download! LOL

-Torrent speeds suck for this!
Torrents are only usefull near the release when lots of people download it, over time less people seed and thus the download speed is less. The http mirrors on the other hand are much less "busy" so you can use those.

[Eden]

No need for the aggro buddy...well I suppose it begs the question how often have you seen the US win on extraction mode maps? On one server I was playing with same group of players at all times because autoswitch was off. And these guys were serious teamworkers against a load of lone wolves - planning their extraction scenarios, using the littlebird for reconnaisance and so on. They didnt win a single round not even on Mashtuur. Worse was the fact that the radio chatter claimed that this was a regular thing with one player as commander who knew what he was doing saying that he had only seen the US win once on the map with the large bridge i forget the name and there was armour on that map to boot. I can't see armour ruining it unless of course you are one who believes that there should be no armour at all on maps like Karkand in BF2 in the first place...i don't know and it doesnt matter - when something doesnt work something is wrong

To answer your question, its roughly even, I've played on both sides in extraction mode and I've won and lost around the same amount on each side.

Karkand I would have to agree with a lot of people who play extraction just shouldn't be on the map rotation, its probably the only map where the MEC side have a huge advantage because there is only two routes to the extract point.


Never claimed I was. However, if military advisors (which is code for anyone who has enlisted in the army more than likely having not seen combat at all) advised on this mod then why are the rounds so short. Surely a slower paced mod would require battles lasting hours not mere minutes? But seeing as you brought it up when most of the soldiers are wearing high tech body armour ingame, how are the PRMM bullets (weapon ballistics) realistic? How is driving and firing a tank at the same time realistic (vehicle handling)? How is giving the AT class a pistol realistic (weapon loadouts)? In fact I challenge YOU to tell me what is so realistic about this mod - convince me, sell me the product. As for PRMMs success, well I must complement the marketing of it again - very impressive effort. Its popularity, justified or not, is because of the amount of its supporters advertising it NOT because it is just that good.
Thats not my Job, i'll leave that to the R-PUB's and R-DEV's, I will say however that it looks like you plain just dont like this mod, and that is the case for a lot of people. PR is more for a specific group of people and there are going to be people who just hate it, I think your one of them and its probably best you just move on to another mod.

To point you in the right direction for your above questions, they are all being discussed quite in-depth i might ad in the PR forums.

[$kelet0r]

I will say however that it looks like you plain just dont like this mod, and that is the case for a lot of people. PR is more for a specific group of people and there are going to be people who just hate it, I think your one of them and its probably best you just move on to another mod.I agree that seems to be the case :(
And it hurts me because I should have creamed all over this mod - coming from awesome games like Flashpoint, Day of Defeat, Ghost Recon, even Rainbow 6 this mod should have been perfect after the chaos of BF2, exactly the type of gameplay I love. I mean games where tactics and realism are king should mean I would love PRMM - I hate playing Sci-fi shooters like UT or Quake or even playing with people who use BF2 for teamdeathmatch. Instead I played it, pwned at it and hated it in that order. To say I am disappointed is a huge understatement .... probably why I am defending my points without support here ..... but I will definitely come back to PRMM in future releases and give it a second chance, any mod team deserves that - eggman being a prat aside. For now, it's back waiting for Armed Assault....

[Eden]

I know how you feal in waiting for a game, ive been waiting for Entropy for almost 2 years now, but its slowly comeing.

anyway, you are right a lot of things need tweeked, but 0.3 is a big step in the right direction, and I expect 0.4 will be better. Now if only they would replace the MEC with a real army.

[antseezee]

PRMM has been the most satisfying mod I have played so far, as when I kill someone, it feels as if I actually earned the kill. No out-of-zoom crosshair, decreased stamina, and lack of artillery (on certain maps) really adds realism to the overall perspective. Some of the maps are VERY awesome, some of them are VERY bad (that Steel Thunder one just doesn't flow).

The review itself is quite good, probably the best I've seen Jobafa turn out so far. I think he perceives how the BF2 community would receive this mod, which does SHOW personal reviewing attributes.

As for the success of the mod, it is hit or miss though. That one guy who said the game practically sucks is one type of BF2 player. Then there are others who thrive on realism. I'm sort of in between. At times, this game can be very fun in teamworkable squads. Other times, it feels like a struggle to have to play a night map and constantly get sniped, or can put you to sleep if the teams are outnumbered. It's the closest thing you will find to realism with the BF2 engine, period. Plus, it promotes sniping, which I enjoy thoroughly. Few mods are afraid of promoting AWPing as in Counter-Strike. Let's face the facts though, in realistic combat, snipers will kill you. Normal infantry have no chance. I would LOVE if the developers could place a non-changeable class limit on Snipers or other classes. Perhaps only 2 Snipers on each team, and scale that class limit to the size of the map. This way, you do not have highly accurate snipers whoring on certain maps since in real life this is not how training occurs. We have tons of more general infantry than specialized snipers. Team Fortress Classic use to do this, by limiting certain classes to enforce balancing rules. Just a suggestion.

[Fullforce]

Skeletor,

I find this mod, with reactions, to be like marmite - you either love it, or hate it. You seem to hate it, and I have no problem with that, but there is no need to continue flaming the mod.

Regarding the military advisors - our advisors have fought in many conflicts, such as the Falklands, the first Gulf war, and the second. This is a mod that soldiers will like, it is made by soldiers, not people who don't give a sh!t about the army. We've got guys from the USMC, SEALs, RIR, Royal Engineers, Royal Marines, and so many more: http://realitymod.com/forum/t581-are-you-a-soldierspan.html

P.S. Jofaba pwns.

[smokeythebear]

if your frustrated playing this you have to change your playstyle from what it was in vannila, there are still people who will run down the middle of the street towards the next cap point with no squad support...two shots and thier dead without ever seeing an enemy.

I dont even mind the 30 seconds, its great seeing everyone travel in squads and taking time to survey the area ahead. plus it makes firefights that much more intense.

[solodude23]

I think the people who are having a bad time playing the mod are the ones jumping right into the game without getting a good squad together. Using teamwork is the whole point of this mod. IF you run around and rambo, you will not get anywhere.
I totally agree. I hear people complaining about long spawn times, being spawn camped, etc. I almost never have these problems. I rarely ever expirience spawn camping. When it comes to spawn times, I rarely die. Then again I am a vetran player, but thats not all it takes. You have to play it like it IS reality.

I'm assuming you always see those players at the top of the scoreboard with teamwork pints around 50, around 20 kills, and only about 2 deaths? They are the ones that understand that if its a realism mod, you have to play it realistically.

[solipsism]

Operation Peace keeper is in no way realistic at all, it is just vanilla with different models/skins and weapons.

Although i do like some of them, it just turned into a randomfest of running around with a chicken like its head cut off. Im sick of vannilla, thats why i Play PR. I agreee there are some problems.

Also skeltor, dont use OPF or AA as an example, you will quickly realize many of the PR players are former players of the above. Besides, play PR for a while and you will completely devasate on any other mod OPK included. They are just silly easy after PR.

[Canuck]

btw to search for PR game using game-monitor use "pr" and not "prmm". We changed that a lil while back.

egg

I installed ASE and downloaded the mods filter.

2100 players currently playing PRMM and 2200 players playing USI. OPK has about 300.

I like many of the things that PR has, but at the same time there are some initial basic things I just don't like. I've been eagerly waiting for a mod since last summer, but no matter how bored I am with Vanilla BF, I just can't get myself to explore this mod any further.
I love mods and have played almost every one that has ever been released since the beginning of the BF series in 2002.
I still have PR installed and will update it as the updates are released but for now I'll continue playing other non-BF to get me over the hump.

[Bullit_toof]

I've been absent from posting here for some time now due my lack of play in vanilla and god dam 150 page dissertations. Any gaming time i've had spare have been spent larking around the planes of oblivion, not my normal choice of game, but I bought it on a whim and thoroughly enjoyed it.

However things have changed, i finished my finals and the PRMM team released 0.3. So may i just congratulate the team at this point for bringing me and the community this fantastic if somewhat it seems controversial mod.

The game in some aspects is very much like the previously mentioned oblivion. In the first few hours of game time you'll find yourself wandering around wondering what the bloody hell is going on. You'll be inoccently walking down a street and suddenly you'll be attacked out of nowhere and you'll reach a very quick demise. However after these few, and sometimes torturous hours, you start to think that you can't believe you having been playing any other game. In fact if BF2 is vanilla then PRMM is [insert your favourite ice cream flavour here] scrunchy brown bread icecream.

Granted this beta release isn't without its faults. But lets face it, this faults list is a dam site shorter than vanilla's and any other current mod IMO. I'm not going to talk about what aspects of the game I like and dislike as we've seen previously, one mans meat is another mans poison and so arguing these points is like trying to polish a turd.

Now some of you are going to be thinking "what a fan boy", and you'd be probably be right to a point. I do love this mod however i'm not hanging around after the show in the hopes of being invited to the back stage party to have the leadsinger stroke the inside of my leg or worse. But i am willing to state my full support for the mod and the team.

This mod can only go forward, i mean the British are coming in a future release along with a large selection of extra vehicles and weaponry. So i'm predicting big things for this fantastic mini-mod. Keep up the good work lads.

Cheers

BT

[[MyIS]Spetsnaz]

@skeletor

Gotta agree with the rest here... it seems like the only 2 things you've pointed out about this mod that you don't like are:

a) Extraction mode needs a tank for US.
b) You die too fast.

When I was playing on US for extraction mode, we were winning nearly every round. The team was good, thus we won. I've had times when I played Karkand on vanilla and lost 20 consecutive rounds as MEC. If I were to think by your logic, I'd start saying that MEC is underpowered on that map because US can sneak and take the flags in the back.

Regarding dying too fast... again... I never had this problem. I stay alive for quite a long time and take quite a few flags before I die. I, too, come from OFP (I recently played it btw).

It's nice that you give criticism, however I don't think it's very constructive as you claim. Constructive criticism involves listing out detailed opinions and how you think they should be improved. Aside from telling them they should add a tank to Extraction mode map (which is ridiculous as many have stated), you haven't said anything else and haven't given a valid reason behind it, besides the fact that your team got clobbered when you played.

Next time try constructive criticism, it's much more polite, friendly and productive :)

Regarding OFP, I really don't see what your talking about. That game had horrible multiplayer gaming (way before its time). I personally saw Armed Assault at E3 and the game is really looking up, but OFP really is no comparison here, so dont throw apples at our oranges :D

And regarding PR, I think Extraction mode is completely unplayable at this point unless the people playing are friends. It's way too easy to slip by the lines with the SUV if the MEC are caught unaware and way too easy to destroy the SUV if the US team isn't off roading. The problem really lies in the fact that the SUV has much shorter spawn times than the HMMVs so setting up any type of convoy is impossible.

I also think Extraction mode needs checkpoints. Let's say there are 5 checkpoints. You need to gradually drive the SUV to each checkpoint and as soon as you get there the SUV will spawn there from then on and single US spawn will move that checkpoint (the previous checkpoint or start flag will become an MEC spawn). That way the MEC get a second chance and the US need to work a little harder than simply off roading to a remote area and drive around everything.

I also think snipers should be removed from the kit selection screen and replaced with designated marksman (if USA, give them an M14). Put the sniper kit as a spawnable kit that you need to pick up. Sniper should be very rare and very useful. There is no use in having snipers that can't shoot worth a damn because the deviation is so huge.. know what I mean? Designated marksman should only engage at short-medium range while snipers should engage at long ranges but be very scarse. It's not really about "real life" (it is true that snipers are scarse in real life obviously though). It's more about the fact that snipers are supposed to elite troops with specific objectives. It takes alot of money for the government to train these guys and they use very expensive equipment are extremely well fit for it. This why they are so rare.. they are expensive and well fit for combat. This is why you don't see an infantry Company full of snipers roaming the desert in Iraq -- it would make sense since all engagements are long range, but it's just too damn expensive and a waste of resources.

And lastly, my response to those that bark "realism" (*cough*troybob ;) ) when they see a feature that isn't "realistic", please remember that PR is not focused on recreating a real life war situation (thats impossible). Instead, the mod is there to give tactical gamers a place to play -- a place where you need to use your head, not aimlessly run around and chuck grenades all over the place.

In the real world, soldiers are trained to react rationally and logically when in combat. They are trained to think through their maneuvers and, most of all, not to risk their necks doing useless things. They are trained to work as a team. They are trained to move carefuly because one wrong move could mean the end of the soldier's life.

PR gameplay closely resembles the above. You move with your squad, dont take stupid risks and meticulously advance to your objective while keeping your eyes open.

Doing things like "scouting" with the littlebird is just bad thinking (skeletor). Because the maps are so small and the fighting is so concentrated, the situation on the ground will change in seconds. The idea isn't to replicate every itty bitty detail of a military operation (again, that's impossible), but to allow players that enjoy a more realistic approach to gameplay (tactical, slow, rewarding, and risky) to have a home :)

[eggman]

Some outstanding constructive feedback there Spetnaz.

We're definitely learning about the game modes and what will work and not work. We'll be making improvements to them in upcoming releases.

We have a new game mode in development which we think will be better suited to the more military minded player base. We'll also be doing some variations on the game modes we already have.

It's early days in the BF2 mod scene, so the game has been great value for me.. I kinda feel sorry for some of the folks who eschew the mod scene as a result of the ranked server stuff.. there's some great free gameplay to be had!

egg

[Ghost Dog]

These comments are based on a few hours experience:

- I don't really like the accuracy of the guns, this was the whole reason why I downloaded this mod... to have more accurate guns. I tried the Spec Ops gun on single shot and the bullet doesn't even go near your crosshair... not even while proned and that 's just pathetic :confused: .

- Only played extraction and the game mode seems ok but you need to play together and that just doesn't seem to work online... too many selfish players out there (even when playing unranked...).

Will post more feedback but so far my experience hasn't been very positive.

[snowy]

Just to say, i've been playing this mod for the last week or so and I WILL NEVER BE GOING BACK TO VAILLA BF2! Sure, sometimes it can be frustrating dying quickly, mainly becuase yuo're not really used to it, but that just makes you cover your team and rely on them to cover you. Squads in this game tend to be really nicely balanced on most maps which is a plus... and a good indication that the players who take the time to download this mod are perhaps more serious about teamwork than the average bf2 1 hour session player.

I can't tell you how satisfying it is to put your m-16 on single fire mode, lay prone in the grass and pop off soldiers crossing your field of fire 100 yards away.

Obviously there are a few tweaks needed here and there, and the game will no doubt evolve and become even better, but even at this early stage the mod is utterly awesome.

[solodude23]

These comments are based on a few hours experience:

- I don't really like the accuracy of the guns, this was the whole reason why I downloaded this mod... to have more accurate guns. I tried the Spec Ops gun on single shot and the bullet doesn't even go near your crosshair... not even while proned and that 's just pathetic :confused: .


If you think of realism and you think of super accurate guns, think again. Have you ever shot a gun in real life? Have you ever shot a rifle at a distant target? While the gun itself is accurate, the slightest fraction of an inch off in aiming your weapon can mean FEET off at the target from where you were aiming. If its the entire reason you played this mod (simply to have more accurate guns) then perhaps its not the mod for you.

[Ghost Dog]

If you think of realism and you think of super accurate guns, think again. Have you ever shot a gun in real life? Have you ever shot a rifle at a distant target? While the gun itself is accurate, the slightest fraction of an inch off in aiming your weapon can mean FEET off at the target from where you were aiming. If its the entire reason you played this mod (simply to have more accurate guns) then perhaps its not the mod for you.Well, the new maps and gamemodes were also part of the reason I downloaded this mod ;) .

Never the less if you fire a gun from prone position and single shot, the bullet should go where you aim... either that or you need target practice.

[trogdor1289]

It's been said before guns just aren't that accurate and also a M4 or any other Spec Ops carbines suck at long range. Also remeber to wait for your shots.

[[MyIS]Spetsnaz]

Never the less if you fire a gun from prone position and single shot, the bullet should go where you aim... either that or you need target practice.

SMGs use lighter rounds that are more susceptible to wind. They also dont put as much muscle behind the round to give it the accuracy you want.

I do agree with you though... sometimes the aim is taken a little too far. If I'm firing an M16 at medium range and I'm prone for 5 seconds placing my shot... my target should drop without a doubt.

I think what they should do is create some other dynamic for aiming. At this point, if they make guns "super accurate" then it'll turn people into super duper sharp shooters with any weapon.

Anyway, at this time I think the aiming is spot on (albeit a few tweaks here or there). The only problem that occurs is when a player is prone and slowly placing his shot -- he'll still get no hit because it doesnt matter if you were placing your shot for 5 seconds or half a second.

Americas Army solved this problem with breathing and weapon sway.

[Rhino]

Spetsnaz']Americas Army solved this problem with breathing and weapon sway.

which is exstreamly hard to implerment due to BF2 not supporting it.

[solodude23]

Never the less if you fire a gun from prone position and single shot, the bullet should go where you aim... either that or you need target practice.Thats my point. It should go "where you aim". If you have ever shot a rifle at long range you will know that lining up the sights is one of the hardest parts to it. Aiming is not easy at all. The slightest fraction of a cm off on the sights will mean up to feet off where your shooting. Its not anything like the simply point and click of a video game.

At any rate, it IS a video game, which is why it is fairly easy to aim. While the Carbines (spec ops guns) are a little less accurate, the rifles are more accurate. the BF2 DEVS, for some reason, semmed to think a carbine would be more accurate than a rifle. :rolleyes:

[lds4567]

looks good but we'll wait and see

[imported_UH60BHPilot]

Good review, but personally, I don't see any reaslism in fighting a fictional army (The MEC). Add some insurgents and I'll be playing it 24/7 :P . Seriously though, the damage system is fairly good from what I played in .2, but I just loose all sense of realism when I get killed by a fictional army. Will probably give it another go once the Brits are included, but until then it just doesn't cut it for me.

[mikezrocks]

If i where rating this by sections it would go like this
graphics: 9/10
scoring system:8/10 could be inproved
game play: 7/10 because of that dam spawn time cant you go for like 20 seconds?

(and for all the people who says oh this isnt close to reality well its the closetes thing to it on bf2 today)

[Tiberiansun292]

this mod is awsome. but the only thing i really dont like on this mod is the respawn time.

[=DNC=SYSEX73]

this mod is awsome. but the only thing i really dont like on this mod is the respawn time.

Well When I die in real life, it takes me at least 30 seconds to be reborne from the fires, so it is realistic, but also fair.

[eggman]

Just a lil reminder .. respawn times in PR are actually 0s by default and go up 1s for each death you incur, to a maximum of 30s.

Man down time, i.e. the time you can be revived by a team mate, is 30s by default.

We're really trying to encourage team play and part of that is giving other players a good opportunity to revive team mates.

I'm not gonna say the rhetorical "don't die so much" .. I'll just frankly admit that the level of teamplay that PR is trying to encourage may not be for everybody.

egg