Macros, yay or nay.

[Thirdeyez]

Ok I have the ability to use them do to my board.
I know how easy it is to do a couple things with them.
My top 3 are..
1. Prone-crouch-jump
2. single man seat jumping 90-100% TV missle accuracy
3. One I used, not great but fun..prone-shock paddle-revive-switch to gun-jump

So after using them for a bit..I felt dirty..I havnet used or attempeted to use them in a few months..
But..as days go by and rounds pass..I see it alot..and I mean ALOT

So..is it cheating...should it be swept under the carpet..or should DICE figure a way to eliminate it?

[Dangerdog]

Unless you’re a paraplegic and have to control you player by moving a joystick with your chin then I’d consider it cheating.

There’s not much DICE can do about it other than try to eliminate things in the game that are annoying that you can do with a regular keyboard, diving down to the prone position and having pin point accuracy for example. It’s just one more design headache to consider now that more and more of these macro playback devices come onto the market.

[MikeBoogie]

Not cheating, perfectly fine.

[pYura]

Cheating, perfectly fine.

ps.: I dont use any. And who uses wont benefit that much. I enjoy pushing 6 buttons if need.

[Thirdeyez]

I should have put other options..

Option 3. I own a macro board and think its not cheating.
Option 4. I dont own a macro board and still approve of it.

Kinda hard to gripe about something you spent your hard earned money on to have an advantage with.

[Vinyx]

Where and how do you do all this people!?!?!??

http://images.totalbf2.com/icons/icon5.gif http://images.totalbf2.com/icons/icon5.gif http://images.totalbf2.com/icons/icon4.gif

I wouldn't consider it cheating, but maybe.

[Thirdeyez]

Where and how do you do all this people!?!?!??

http://images.totalbf2.com/icons/icon5.gif http://images.totalbf2.com/icons/icon5.gif http://images.totalbf2.com/icons/icon4.gif

I wouldn't consider it cheating, but maybe.

quick link to a macro board..http://www.everythingusb.com/logitech_g15_keyboard.html

basically whilel someone is doing a finger dance and shooting..Im pushing 1 key that does many actions Ive programmed it to do.
Best examples are prone jumping..instead of hitting 3 keys in a sequence..you hit one.
TV missles..no more click, click, click to target..you just fire and hold button thats assigned to click..it repeats clicking and all you do is guide it in..really really smooth and extreme accuracy.

[Vinyx]

Would you mind buying that for me. :)

[imported_Jazza]

I don't have a G15 and I can still use Macro's, I have tried out the one where you can just guide the TV guide missile with the mouse, its bloody hard to use!

[Sloi sauce]

Macros are a form of exploit/cheat.

(In the case of soloing)
By allowing your keyboard/macro to do all of the switching/guiding work for you, you're removing most of the skill required. Essentially, you're giving yourself a huge advantage in many different cases.

It's cheating, pure and simple.


PS. The abovementioned was an example of a performance-enhancing macro: utilitarian macros (ie. pre-typed text followed by the Enter key) that have no impact on your playing ability are excluded from the exploit/cheat category.

[12:oc7ock]

not cheating, not perfectly fine; just lame.

[Komet.nl]

Not cheating. nothing wrong with it. But the Dolphin Divers give the Macro Community a bad name that's why most people consider Macro's immediately as cheating though I use them for like spotting with one button so I don't have to press Q then mouse etc. Simple macro's that don't give any realy advantage over other players.

By the way I just bought a G15 :salute:

~ Komet

[Essau]

I had those, but it's no really advantage and besides that, they aren't 100% reliable still. I rather do it normally.

[loonsluv]

I think it's a form of an exploit, and people that do it are cheaters period. There are some forms of using like the one guys said, for spotting, and other misc things, but noobs that use it for insta-prone, and crap like that. They are nothing more then cheater, and I hate it when f'ers use that crap. I play without any help. I sure hope EA fixes it. I don't care if they make it so it takes 5-10 seconds to go from prone to standing back to prone again. Doesn't matter to me one bit.

Then all the exploiters will show how shi$$y they really are...

[SuperTyphoon]

Only uber nubs use macros (especially the proning and shooting one, very common).

[baggygreen]

I cant stand it, i've lately (well before i stopped playing for a bit) come across a few clans where the players were obviously using them. i made mention of it, i think my exact words were "mate, why cant you try pressing the buttons instead of using that stupid bloody macro? give yourself a chance to prove how good you really are" (he'd been mouthing off at everyone for a few rounds). I was promptly kicked for high ping, on a server where i never go above 110...

its cheating out and out. not as bad perhaps as other forms, but it is cheating and thts what counts. In my opinion, that is.

[SuperTyphoon]

Wanna see prone spamming, bunnny hopping and dolphin diving macro madness? Hop onto a 16 player knife and pistol (knife ONLY ones have more of them) and see. If you're lucky, you may find a player or more that is using one.

I went into this one called Knife Only 24/7, and this group of players with the |E| tag in front of their name all use the macros.

[Revoluti0n]

This is the kind of crap that is causing Dice to nerf the game. It's not the occassional bunny hop, it's the hardcore macro kiddies.

[baggygreen]

Amen to that revolution.

[Chris_Redfield]

Its too bad that macros are actually useful in this game, so people concentrate on using them. It takes 3-5 direct hits to kill someone, with all the lag, and other issues, plus the high jumps and proning options, you can be nigh invincible... At least, with this, DICE is moving towards the right direction.

Some games allow macros automatically. For example in SWAT4, you can bind different functions with one key by separating the functions with | character.

G= togglefiremode | toggleflashlight | togglezoom

I imagine in BF2, using keys to bind together functions like zoom and firemode would make it a little easier for the gameplay. Or, immediately switch to gun after first grenade throw or whatnot.

So Im in favour using macros that make it a little simplier for your gameplay, or create your own custom variety, system. But macros that break the immersion. Boost up your survival. Like the prone-chouch-jump... Thats not something Id like. But since BF2 dynamics make it worth it for people to use it, its good that DICE is trying to keep this in check. Worst case would be for them to not to do anything... Or like they failed to fix it for the solo-choppers.

[vidh]

I don't need macros - I've got micro. Why do people have to use things like that to kill people? Atleast when you do it yourself you know that it's skill

[cyberbex]

not cheating.
an you can do it with any keyboard with a simple macro program an the knowledge on how to make macros or were to get them from.

[Auto-ER-]

There is no macro I can't reproduce by hand. The only useful one I could think of is maybe hitting one button and entering a vehicle, then F2ing to the .50 cal, since sometimes I hit Esc instead :(, Other than that, prone spamming, C4 chucking, soloing, I can do it, the game has delays built in so it's not like you can make it do something beyond human ability. I don't see them as cheating, just useless, it's more annoying seeing people crying about them all the time, when most of the time people aren't even using them.

[IndianScout]

Macro's

§1.3 You may not change (hack) any core games files, load into memory or employ external programs or cheats for the purposes of giving yourself an unfair advantage over other players.

This would include but not limited to:
§ MSX and other 3rd party software.

there is a fine line when using 3rd party keyboard or mouse software for it's intended use or when binding it so it will reproduce movements or abilities that the normal player can not do..

[Sloi sauce]

... and yet, people will still argue that macros are not a kind of artificial help to increase their performance. Is anyone really surprised ? The s*it people will tell themselves to justify using them.

:rolleyes:

[predragjanjic]

[QUOTE=Sloi]Macros are a form of exploit/cheat.

(In the case of soloing)
By allowing your keyboard/macro to do all of the switching/guiding work for you, you're removing most of the skill required. Essentially, you're giving yourself a huge advantage in many different cases.

It's cheating, pure and simple.


yep

[Bungalow_Bill]

I find it amazing and disgusting that so many people don't feel macros are a form of cheating, I can also tell by the poll results many people use macros themselves, and are trying to justify them. You can have a macro that goes to a crouch, 100ms later down to a prone, and fire an exacting burst of bullets 35ms apart. It's impossible to do that with a regular keyboard. That's a program or a piece of equipment that gives you an unfair advantage over players, bottom line. Punkbuster needs to start watching keystroke anomalies and for certain utilities running in memory and kick and eventually ban for them.

It isn't just the G15 though, plenty of programs and utilities exist to create rapid click macros, prone macros, ect. So having certain hardware isn't an excuse to cheat, and neither is having certain software.

I can say I'm completely legit and proud of it, and it wouldn't have it any other way. When I kill somebody, regardless if I'm a medic, in an airplane, or in a tank, I know that it was purely my skill that awarded me with that kill and nothing else. I know at least for me if I was using a macro of some sort it'd make all of my victories so hollow. I could never ever play like that and enjoy myself.

The Internet is the perfect place to do this though. Try and take one of those programmable autofire controllers to a console video game competition (SSB, SF ect..) where the other players can see you face to face and see what you're doing and see how other players react to your unfair advantage. They'll tell you to get the F out, that's what they'll do.

[Lanserschrek]

There are legitimate uses for Macro's. I use a Logitech MX1000 mouse for instance and you can extend the functionality of your mouse with different binds. e.g All my default button presses are just assigned to weapons, but by depressing either Shift or Windows key you can have second or third functions such as zooming the mini-map, bringing up main map, answering yes/no etc, checking scoreboard, displaying squad screen, pickup kit, VOIP, change vehicle view etc. Basically allowing you to access all the standard game functions from the comfort of your mouse. This to me is perfectly legitimate as keyboard/mouse configurations are totally individual and it's up to us to find the most comfortable fastest way of interacting with the game.

Having said the above I don't agree with the bunny hopping, dolphin diving uses etc of macro's, it's just plain lame, detracts from the fun of the game and requires no skill or experience. I very rarely see macros in use in such a way but every now and again I'll see a bunny hopper surviving a full clip by using a macro instead of skill to come out on top. I just think it's more enjoyable to play the game and enjoy it naturally.

[Komet.nl]

Macro's are given a really really bad name like with BF2 the Dolphin Diving.. Dice should have fixed that. Then what can't you do by hand and can you do with Macro's? Tell me.. Dolphin Diving is possible by hand, I can do it by hand..

Tell me what is not possible by hand that is possible trough macro's? I can't come up with anything I ]only use my macro's for Press Q and left mouse click so that it auto spots when I press that..

Hell no macro's aren't cheating they only make things easier but are things hard to do in BF2 what people with macro's can?

~ Komet

[Talus]

There is a grey area between advanced binds and full-blown macros.

I have both a G15 and a Nostromo n52...I don't use macros for either one.

Even if it isn't really 'cheating', you're really castrating yourself in that you come to rely on that macro key. Learning how to perform the maneuver WITHOUT a macro..THEN you are truly skilled.

[Flares]

I had a run in the other night with a couple of (|SF| If I remember correctly, judging by pings they were US based) clan players using macros or some such assistance.
Further than 20 yards away I won every engagement and minced them up, but close up they came bouncing in like bunnies on acid (prone -jumping so fast the movement was almost blurred) and I had no chance. The main offender came top both rounds. I wouldn't call it cheating, but it's definitely exploiting imho.

[Bungalow_Bill]

']Macro's are given a really really bad name like with BF2 the Dolphin Diving.. Dice should have fixed that. Then what can't you do by hand and can you do with Macro's? Tell me.. Dolphin Diving is possible by hand, I can do it by hand..

Tell me what is not possible by hand that is possible trough macro's? I can't come up with anything I ]only use my macro's for Press Q and left mouse click so that it auto spots when I press that..

Hell no macro's aren't cheating they only make things easier but are things hard to do in BF2 what people with macro's can?

~ Komet

Like I said, every single macro you make will be more precise then recreating the action by hand. Even little macros like switching to a med kit and throwing down a pack and clicking to a rifle, or autospot an enemy will help. You can't do things so perfectly everything and it actually requires for you to reach for keys and hit them in the proper order as fast as possible all while still maintaining an accurate level of fire and movement. Macros = easy mode.

A more complex example:

I can hit crouch and prone in rapid sucession and generate a similar effect to the macro perfect prone diving, however it takes a fair deal of effort on my part and as a result does hurt my aiming by pulling my concentration away from that task. Holding down a key with a macro however I can have the macro prone, hold the key down for exactly 50ms, release the key, 50ms later hit the next key, hold the key down for exactly 250 ms, and then loop it to a single key. So all I have to do is depress a single key and suddenly I've got a macro exact down to the millisecond and I can aim much more accurately.

The other macro of course is fast clicking for TV missiles and the DAO-12. No, it is physically impossible to click the mouse a hundred times in a second.

I'm sure others exist, but those are the main ones I see being exploited currently.

[Talus]

..but is there really a way to stop it?

I'm much more concerned about people using cheats than macros.

Once I know PB can reliably stop cheating...THEN I'll start worrying about macros ;)

[TheDragon]

Not cheating, perfectly fine.
you are all absolutely nuts
macros are definitely cheating
get caught and you are reset
(well - as there are so many obvous hackers.cheeaters.padders that get away with it - you might also)
but is STILL wrong !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
read the rules

[big_sammy_b]

it is cheating blatently no different to using a aimbot.

[Talus]

It is different from using an aimbot...no macro could help you AIM.

..but I see your point ;)

[baroque]

of course its cheating, you use a third party thing to give you an advantage.
And its so obvious when you see players use macros in pronespamming for example, the do it so fast that the head is never seen. And people using that are ugly creeps, hate it :(

[Traci_Kila_Lords]

Very telling poll!

I can sum it up like this:

You use macros = vote ok

You don't = vote not ok

[Graphic]

It's cheating by definition.

[Komet.nl]

People who don't use macros think it are super-cheat-machine-robot-things. You can't do that many with them come on everyone can Dolphin Dive/Bunnyhop macro's aren't needed for that so!

My conclusion macros are not cheating as long as they don't give any advantage.

~KOmet

[baroque]

havent you seen those who pronespam behind walls with macros? they do it so fast that the only thing you see is a weapon through the wall while they are concentrating the aim on you.

[imported_lightningmaster]

WOW...I am far from being a techie and reading this just blew my mind!

Those who do this macro thing are just denying themselves the real SKILL required to manually play this game and be. This crap would not work on the paintball field!

IT IS CHEATING PURE AND SIMPLE! PERIOD!

*NYWW*Lightningmaster
www.newyorkwebwarriors.com

[Bungalow_Bill]

']My conclusion macros are cheating as long as they don't give any advantage.

Thank you for this glorious conclusion Komet! Now we all know it is ok to use macros! Thank you!

Ahem..

You are not the decider Komet, DICE is. DICE has already decided, and it's considered cheating regardless if they "don't give an advantage" (which they all do to an extent).

..but is there really a way to stop it?

I'm much more concerned about people using cheats than macros

PB certainly could stop this sort of behavior but if they tried people would start bitching about their "privacy", as if punkbuster bots actually care what you're doing with your computer. To start, PB could be scanning memory and looking for certain macro utilities running in the background (about 2 utilities make up I'd guess roughly 70-80% of the macroers). Banning even 1 program from being loaded in to memory at the same time as BF2 would stop most macro newbies in their tracks.

In addition to that, Punkbuster could also watch for keystroke anomalies. Pretty simple, if Punkbuster sees the mouse pressed 15+ times a second for long enough or enough times it finally sends up a red flag and initiates a kick. To catch G-15 macros that don't click abnormally fast Punkbuster would also have to scan for other events like a player repeated X key combination with perfect delays down to the millisecond Y amount of times. You'd have to give people a few strikes though before laying down any kind of GUID or HW ban though.

But yeah, aimbotters certainly come first, and Punkbuster is behind the curve catching those cheaters, and based on that I'd estimate it's doubtful they'll ever apply the time and effort to stop macro users as well, even though it is the most common form of cheating in BF2 at the moment.

[tdream]

Absolutely cheating, if it's not a bind for a SINGLE button, then it's cheating. If the programmers wanted you to bunny hop so easily they would of made a button for it. CHEATING CHEATERS!!

[Komet.nl]

Thank you for this glorious conclusion Komet! Now we all know it is ok to use macros! Thank you!

Ahem..

You are not the decider Komet, DICE is. DICE has already decided, and it's considered cheating regardless if they "don't give an advantage" (which they all do to an extent).

Haha what the! How could I well that's strange didn't checked my message for grammatical errors etc. (As this one )

And I know Dice already decided but as I said 'my conclusion ;) '

Well I hope Macro's won't be banned or something since I don't use them often only for the spot menu since that will hopefully save my mouse from getting a breakdown or something.. I'm almost finished with it and after that I'll buy a Copperhead. :)

~ Komet

[Canuck]

Macros are not allowed in CAL (http://www.caleague.com/?division=bf28)competition.

[saltburn]

macros should be considered cheating but there is no way to enforce it.
I can do all of what you posted without macros and I do it ALL the time.

[-=KOF=-IVirusI]

WOW...I am far from being a techie and reading this just blew my mind!

Those who do this macro thing are just denying themselves the real SKILL required to manually play this game and be. This crap would not work on the paintball field!

IT IS CHEATING PURE AND SIMPLE! PERIOD!

*NYWW*Lightningmaster
www.newyorkwebwarriors.com


That guy said it all for me, 100% agreement with him.

It's a pity that nothing really can be done to macros.

[markan dorka]

As long as it can't be enforced at all, i'd rather not label it as cheating. Doing so creates more problems than it solves.

Here's another thing though. If all major LANs forbid macros (not sure if they already do) where it CAN be enforced, then those ppl who aim to play at highest levels are shooting their own foot if they use them .. since when money is on the line, they can't pull off same stunts as ppl who practiced to do all the stuff manually.

Mere existence of high-profile LAN tourneys work as pretty solid anticheat in many games. It's pretty funny though, when the cream of the crop have smaller percentage of cheating amongst them, yet they get most of the accusations :)

[Jumintiger]

It's definetely cheating. Most people have to do their revives and such the hard way, as Z-click-Z-spacebar-W.

I don't like to think someone can do that sort of thing by just pressing for instance ALT.

[Komet.nl]

It's definetely cheating. Most people '[/i]have to do their revives and such the hard way[/i]', as Z-click-Z-spacebar-W.

I don't like to think someone can do that sort of thing by just pressing for instance ALT.

Which hard way? :laugh:

Really when I didn't had a G15 I still didn't had anything against macro's it arent' cheats or something because you can do them by normal they only make it more easier to do. Now I'm not saying that I use macro's such like Dolphin Diving.

Now I do have to agree that it can be annoying to know that someone else has the ability to perform actions in a one-click-action..

Though I won't change my opinion (That's were opinions are about this is a discussion board.) about the macro's..

I do find people who use macro's for Dolphin-Diving / Bunny-Hop / And other actions that really give an advantage over an other player weak..

I don't use them actually I don't even know what for only for spotting I'm not defending myself or something..

Hope people agree on this one ;)

~ Komet

[Red Devil]

Absolutely it's cheating.

It's gaining an unfair advantage by making the game do something it wasn''t designed to do.

[imported_Mongo Only Pawn]

']

My conclusion macros are not cheating as long as they don't give any advantage.

~KOmet

If macros didn't give an advantage, they wouldn't be used! Duh...

Macros are cheating. Period. It's an unfair advantage, and players that use them obviously lack the requisite talent to play the game as it should be. You should get yourself an Atari 2600 and start over with Pong.

[Painboy]

I think some people think macros are not that bad because you can go out and buy a keyboard at Best Buy that does it and your not downloading a program off some shady website. I think this helps people "legitimize" it more.

While sometimes macros can be used to help get around poor game design, in an FPS, which is heavily reflexed based, it's defintiely cheating. To those who say "I can do the same thing with out a macro," whatever. You can't do it as consistently or precisely as it can. And if you somehow have more fingers than the rest of us then you shouldn't need macros anyway.

[AlphaNut]

I wouldn't use any macros in BF2 since I think I can do better by pressing the keys. It comes quiet instantaneous, and keypresses are more of a reflex to me.

I use a g15, and have some vehicle view keys bound to the Gkeys. Other then that I wouldn't know what a macro would be good for in a fps since I don't do any of the bunnyhoppingc4tossinggrenadelaunchingfrompronejump ing stuff :D

[Komet.nl]

If macros didn't give an advantage, they wouldn't be used! Duh...

Macros are cheating. Period. It's an unfair advantage, and players that use them obviously lack the requisite talent to play the game as it should be. You should get yourself an Atari 2600 and start over with Pong.



I guess that was a attempt at humor ;)

Nah I don't know I myself don't use them though I got a G15 I think I'll be using them for other games in SP.. Ah there comes the flaming well w/e you may think I got a G15 but I don't use the macros only for a quick spot which can be done faster ingame though but I want to save my mouse..


~ Komet

[disfigured]

If you think it through hypothetically, it becomes more clear that its a cheat.

Suppose a pilot designed one , a rather complex one, that caused his jet to fly loops and dive bomb a static position. Ala an ACC for example.

Get the jet in place, hit the macro, loop , fairly accurate bomb placement on deck, hit macro again. Sit back have a cup of coffee till you run out of ammo.

That's when everyone starts crying foul even the macro users.

If you split hairs about it only being used for this or that, eventually that supports some one else's argument for what I described above. Or something equally destructive.

It all started innocently enough to shorten the rather cumbersome task of typing messages in gamechat. Now it's flopping and diving and shooting and pretty soon it's what I described. But then it's too late.

As for being able to reproduce the more simple strokes. I doubt anyone can reproduce them with a 0% failure rate. It also allows your to concentrate on other things.

It's third party (the software), it gives you an advantage (unless your Data from STNG). Therefore it's cheating.

[Sloi sauce]

I can say I'm completely legit and proud of it, and it wouldn't have it any other way. When I kill somebody, regardless if I'm a medic, in an airplane, or in a tank, I know that it was purely my skill that awarded me with that kill and nothing else. I know at least for me if I was using a macro of some sort it'd make all of my victories so hollow. I could never ever play like that and enjoy myself.


Exactly how I feel about it. You know what REALLY ****es me off ? Without fail, I will be accused of cheating within 5 minutes of joining a server if I do "too well" with the hellfires: it's Counter-Strike ALL OVER AGAIN for me!

Stupid cycle all over again: I get very good, people accuse me of cheating, I get tired of defending myself and play something else, I come back to the game and realize there's a bunch of hackers, move on to the next best thing, I get very good... etc.

It's f*ckin' depressing. :shakehead

[Red Devil]

The thing is, you can *tell* when someone is using macros. If you see someone moving faster than is humanly possible, it's a dead giveaway. And the ones using them are usually just spoiled, dumb kids used to Nintendo and fire button accelerators.

By the same token, you can also tell when people *aren't* using macros and they still beat you fair and square. To them, I just tip my hat and say, "Well done". For the others, I just realize that they are just children. Spoiled dumb children.

[Cargoslug]

And I thought my mouse thumb button gave me an advantage.....:hmm:

[MAD_JIHAD]

Ok I have the ability to use them do to my board.
I know how easy it is to do a couple things with them.
My top 3 are..
1. Prone-crouch-jump
2. single man seat jumping 90-100% TV missle accuracy
3. One I used, not great but fun..prone-shock paddle-revive-switch to gun-jump

So after using them for a bit..I felt dirty..I havnet used or attempeted to use them in a few months..
But..as days go by and rounds pass..I see it alot..and I mean ALOT

So..is it cheating...should it be swept under the carpet..or should DICE figure a way to eliminate it?
lol i can do all three of those with out macros. just press ctrl-z fast its easy...

[sidtherat]

macros are, like all automatics, mosty helpfull

people use them, because they are better with them than without them. it is very simple. it is just like hax, with a slight difference, you dont have to be l33t suxor to be able to use macors, but in game like bf2, where player controls are complicated there are several actions that sinply work better with macro - enter a plane->nose cam, or switch to rear view - wait -nose cam. or enter vechicle - f2, or something that i'd use - enter chpper, switch to gunner, nose cam. and return form tv - nose cam.

and of course there are also much more interesting macros - like dive laming, bunny lamming, and my best, that i treid myself and felt dirty - one man bomber with tv guided missiles. this is f.. powerfull even without macros, but with macro, when all i need to do is to point a plane towards the target it is f.. rediculous

i consider macros cheating, period

[=MLK=stallzer]

I fail to see how the evolution of the gaming keyboard becomes cheating since everyone can go buy one. By saying that it gives and unfair advantage is pure b.s. Some of us don't have jobs where we work on computers all day and are at top typing speeds, I have enuf trouble finding any key let alone a 2 or 3 key sequence. So if you're saying that the skill in a game comes from your typing ability....hogwash! There have been many improvements in gaming keyboards ie: Z-board layouts, etc: If you feel like you're losing to a player using macros, than go buy yourself a G-15, or do I have the same complaint about people with faster processors and videocards?

[Red Devil]

So, we should all go buy a keyboard that has macro abilities so we can all cheat like the other cheaters???

Yeah, right.

[=MLK=stallzer]

So, we should all go buy a keyboard that has macro abilities so we can all cheat like the other cheaters???

Yeah, right.
So since you don't own one, everyone that does is now a cheater ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating_in_online_games

Please point out the "Hardware that everyone can buy cheat"

[almanac]

I'm on the fence with this. Cheating is using anything outside of the game (program wise) to get an upperhand. Macros from a keyboard is just using one of the functions that comes with the keyboard. However, they allow you to do things you can't with a normal keyboard.

Is it fair that someone just has to move their mouse during TV guiding instead of clicking it too? No. Is it fair that some people actually have to press several buttons to pull off "moves" whereas some press 1, No.

They have an advantage because they bought some special keyboard. If you need a macro to TV guide, you probably suck. If you need a macro to help you dolphin dive, once again, you suck.

I do everything manually. Finding out someone is pressing an "easy" button is pathetic. I won't go as far to call them cheaters, but they are pathetic.

The only way I will accept some macro user is if they're over 50 or have some bad arthritis.

[=MLK=stallzer]

But the problem is that everyone has access to it, all you have to do is go buy one. I'd say that someone with a Dual core AMD 4800 with 2 Nvidia 7800's or 7900's in SLI gains much more of an advantage over others that the G-15 owners. It apperas that the same crowd that's screaming "Cheaters" is the same crowd that has brought this game to where it is today....Borked! First the Blackhawks were too strong, now they're usless and sit empty on most maps, than it was the Air craft are too strong...etc, now it's the scream of cheating since you bought a better keyboard....get use to technology or get out of the pilots seat!

[Red Devil]

No, that is just erroneous post hoc, ergo procter hoc. What I am saying is that people are using these keyboards to gain an unfair advantage by using the macro feature to have the computer make multiple keystrokes for them faster than they otherwise would be able to. And that is cheating.

So since you don't own one, everyone that does is now a cheater ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating_in_online_games

Please point out the "Hardware that everyone can buy cheat"

[=MLK=stallzer]

So then someone with say an AMD 4800 Dual core and 2 Nvidia 7900's in an SLI setup is cheating since they can process information so much faster than those of us running simple 64 bit X3200 processors? If anyone who wants to use it can...IT'S NOT A CHEAT!!!!!! crack open the wallet and pick up a G-15.

[Bungalow_Bill]

So then someone with say an AMD 4800 Dual core and 2 Nvidia 7900's in an SLI setup is cheating since they can process information so much faster than those of us running simple 64 bit X3200 processors? If anyone who wants to use it can...IT'S NOT A CHEAT!!!!!! crack open the wallet and pick up a G-15.
Sorry, that's no justification for cheating. I started playing BF2 with a Radeon 9700 Pro, low graphics settings all the way. It wasn't pretty, but I was always at the top of the scoreboard. Now at a 7600GT, nothing has changed in regards to my scoring abilities, I just look better while I'm doing it. However I'll agree hardware can cripple you if you're lagging, but that's just an inescapable fact of video games. On a side note, if anything low graphics settings do help quite a bit when it comes spotting enemies shadows and grass do no conceal them.

Just because the macroing function is on the keyboard doesn't make it legitimate. People have this strange idea in their head that the moment something is detached from your computer it automatically makes it O.K. You could easily create an aimbot keyboard that has a memory chip and drivers and hooks the games code and uses standard aimbot techniques. But it's ok right because it's on the keyboard and not software running in the background?

Oh, and if you're buying a G15 just for the macro functions you're an idiot. Much more flexible, responsive and sophisticated macroing programs exist that make the Logitech macros look primitive and slow by comparison.

Bottom line is you won't see anybody using a keyboard/software macro in any competition, whether it be casual fun or a serious tournement. That fact alone pretty much labels it a cheat in my book without exception.

[almanac]

So then someone with say an AMD 4800 Dual core and 2 Nvidia 7900's in an SLI setup is cheating since they can process information so much faster than those of us running simple 64 bit X3200 processors? If anyone who wants to use it can...IT'S NOT A CHEAT!!!!!! crack open the wallet and pick up a G-15.

You think that is a legit argument? Are you dumb?

Hardware in your tower doesn't make you a better player. If you have some PC that can barely run the game and you get 15 fps, that's a different story. Your argument makes no sense.

Having a good computer doesn't do anything when it comes to skill. I could have an awesome computer and still suck. I could have a junk computer and still be good.

Your components allow you to play the game. Your PC peripherals including your keyboard really affect how you play.

Macro Keyboard vs. Non-Macro keyboard. One enhances one's ability, one doesn't.

How does a 7900 affect your ability to play the game versus a 5900 or something? It doesn't make you a better player. Your game has the ability to look better visually, that's it.

I have no idea what you were thinking when you came up with that lame argument. You should slap yourself, lol.

[Sub_zer0]

NAY!! any one else use the G15 keyboard? I've yet to find any thing to use my macros on it lol

[DosX]

I feel that macro's are fine under some restrictions.

If the actions could be performed normally during gameplay, then the macro is alright.

Example: switch to medic bag, toss one bag, switch to primary weapon
Example: switch to grenade, toss one grenade, switch to primary weapon

If the actions could NOT be normally performed during normal gameplay, then the macro is NOT alright.

Example: Repeated actions by holding down a key.
Example: Key combinations which can NOT be done.

Thats just my .02

[Thirdeyez]

So then someone with say an AMD 4800 Dual core and 2 Nvidia 7900's in an SLI setup is cheating since they can process information so much faster than those of us running simple 64 bit X3200 processors? If anyone who wants to use it can...IT'S NOT A CHEAT!!!!!! crack open the wallet and pick up a G-15.

bad example.
As long as your tower components dont lag you up and keep things fluid then your fine.
Not one of those examples help game play except the peripherals(sp?)

[imported_The 13th Raptor]

So since you don't own one, everyone that does is now a cheater ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating_in_online_games

Please point out the "Hardware that everyone can buy cheat"

Its right next to the "wallhack anyone can download", i dont know how you could have missed it.

Its cheating.

[Jay-C_2142]

Cheating, simple as. What I don't get is how people that use macros for all their game functions and button combinations actually get any fun out of the game. How boring and pointless is pressing one button to pull off a whole move that would usually take skills and effort????
As Talus said, using macros is basically castrating yourself when it comes to competitionss etc.. as your screwed because you aren't well practised without macros and end up sucking!!!!
I have never used a macro on an online game and never will. As you americans would say: 'PERIOD'

[ARCTiC]

The point isn't if we consider it cheating or not, there are rules out there, and the rules infrigment causes your stats (virtually) cleared; "virtually" because in most cases EA doesn't care at all, but now imagine they really do their job (stats reset of *ANY* cheater), the questio is: does these "macro guys" risks their stats AKA they are cheaters? Not they aren't... why? Because a keyboard like a G15 is "reccomended" by Electronic Arts for BF2 (their word), on the G15 box there's a sentence: "improve your game.... blablabla", now imagine someone that doesn't know this board, or the community at all... thay guy paied for a "reccomended" keyboard to "improve" his game "skill", then he is "authorized" to use all the keyboard features.
Call it a "legalized cheat", but these guys cannot be accused of any cheating... they are just using what THEY asked to (buy and) use.
Then whenever you are 100% sure that someone is using a macro, you cannot do ANYTHING, because he is authorized to do so... oh well you may do one thing really: go out and buy a G15.

[[MyIS]Spetsnaz]

It all comes down to being a fair person.

I'm willing to bet that if we take every person that posted in this thread and had a group brainstorming session on how to find a way to artificially increase our advantage in the game with an external source (no hacking software), we'd come up with lists upon lists of this stuff.

Some games have no crosshair when you're not looking down the sights, so some idiots actually put tape on their monitors where the crosshair should be.

The question that should be asked is: what's the fun in a playing a game with macros?

Why not just create a macro for the entire round? Move forward for 15 seconds, make a left, make a right, shoot, move forward, etc. Then you can go downstairs and watch spongebob squarepants while the game plays itself! How exciting!

In my opinion, it's all about fun and if someone wants to waste their time trying to win by using all these tools (hacks) then go ahead. They still won't escape my bullet no matter how many macros they have :)

EDIT: I'd also like to mention that I think alot of this stuff also depends on the developers of the game. These macros really won't work in Americas Army because the movements are realistic and slower. It would be easier just to press the buttons.

[baggygreen]

I dont see a need to go and buy a g15. i use a laptop and strewth, being a 2nd year means i got no money to waste! i think that those people who are going out and getting things like keyboards and mice specifically for this game are beginning to take things just a lil bit too seriously.. it is after all a game.

[RVPilot]

Spetsnaz']It all comes down to being a fair person.

I'm willing to bet that if we take every person that posted in this thread and had a group brainstorming session on how to find a way to artificially increase our advantage in the game with an external source (no hacking software), we'd come up with lists upon lists of this stuff.
I've never used a macro, but fail to see the connection with cheating or hacking. Frankly I guess by this analogy, I am a "hack" for using a joystick to fly. Since others use the keyboard to fly, I have an external source providing me an advantage. Have you ever tried to initiate a barrel roll while looking behind you and talking on teamspeak at the same time - using a keyboard?

So now that we can establish joystick users are "hacks", let's look for other non-software "hacks". Take, for example, every person who pays for a superior internet connnection - like a T1 connection over DSL. They have a distinct hardware advantage and are surely "hacks". And what about everyone who uses the fastest video cards coupled with larger monitors - able to use wider views with liquid smooth frame rates: "hacks" all the way right? They must be, since they can see more than the average gamer - and it's all because of an expensive hardware advantage.

Do you host your own server? Welcome to the "hack" club because your lower ping is directly related to your hardware and gives you an unfair advantage over the rest of the gaming public. Do you use a backlit keyboard while playing at night? See me at the next "hackers"-anonymous meeting since you can more readily see your keys than other less fortunate gamers on the same server. Do you sit in a comfortable chair, use glasses to clear up your vision, wear headphones for better sound comprehension, use lots of RAM to speed up your computer? Sorry, you're all hackers.

So how do all the "hacks" with guilty conscience repent? Here's what to do: Be sure only to play your BF2 on a Pentium 90 or less, with a 32 MB video card, no more than 128 MB of Ram, use only a mechanical ball mouse with an industrial clicker keyboard, a 14" CRT VGA monitor at 640x480 resolution running on 256 color mode, and ALWAYS on an AOL dial-up connection while sitting on an old picnic bench in front of an old recycled school student desk holding your gaming rig. Then once you've cleansed yourself of all hardware advantages, come back on this forum and beg for the forgiveness of all the professional BF2 players that elighten us all, and who've spent so much of their valuable time enriching our community at great personal expense.

[stu75]

nostromo 52 yay

[Red Devil]

Sorry, but your entire argument is based on comparisons between two different subjects, i.e., apples and oranges.

We are talking about something that directly affects and artificially accelerates the behavior of objects in the game itself, not things that affect the appearance or improve your comfort.

Okay, here's an example. We both enter a Nintendo contest. You have a regular controller and I have one that has a module attached to it that turns my fire button into a machinegun so that I can just walk through each round. Is that fair?

Or another one. We both enter a car race. We are both given identical cars. Yours has a nice leather seats and steering wheel, power windows and lighted gauges, but I slap a supercharger on mine before the race. Is that fair? Did your comfort matter?

If all the kids who use these macros and other cheats to get their artificial strokes would all just go play with themselves, we could all have a better time.

snip

[Ephphatha]

I feel that macro's are fine under some restrictions.

If the actions could be performed normally during gameplay, then the macro is alright.

Example: switch to medic bag, toss one bag, switch to primary weapon
Example: switch to grenade, toss one grenade, switch to primary weapon

If the actions could NOT be normally performed during normal gameplay, then the macro is NOT alright.

Example: Repeated actions by holding down a key.
Example: Key combinations which can NOT be done.

Thats just my .02
So holding down W, S and D at the same time (which can't be done on many normal keyboards) is a cheat?

Similarily, how is it less of an exploit if you make a macro to do something in less than 1/10th of a second what would take even the fastest legit player at least 5 times that to do?

You need to define it differently, macros for radio commands (ie. Spotting an enemy, or telling people to get in to a chopper) are justified as they don't give you an unfair combat advantage. Macros like the Jump - Prone - Aim - Shoot bind do however, as it is impossible to replicate that if you press all the required buttons yourself.

[Sloi sauce]

I think everyone knows they're mainly used to exploit, but many will deny this simply to continue using them, as the advantage is too good to just leave behind. Then again, I might be giving people too much credit...

[big_sammy_b]

']People who don't use macros think it are super-cheat-machine-robot-things. You can't do that many with them come on everyone can Dolphin Dive/Bunnyhop macro's aren't needed for that so!

My conclusion macros are not cheating as long as they don't give any advantage.

~KOmet

If it didn't give people an avantage they wouldn't use them would they.

[Chris_Redfield]

Spetsnaz']

Some games have no crosshair when you're not looking down the sights, so some idiots actually put tape on their monitors where the crosshair should be.


Im one of those "idiots". I dont really use them for iron sights, but I do use lines as additional HUD angle and target markers. Call me an idiot here, but I do feel moe enjoyement out a game where I can visually start dropping bombs, instead of relying on the "force".

I think youre being unfair here.

[Flares]

Im one of those "idiots". I dont really use them for iron sights, but I do use lines as additional HUD angle and target markers. Call me an idiot here, but I do feel moe enjoyement out a game where I can visually start dropping bombs, instead of relying on the "force".

I think youre being unfair here.
Wtf? Chris, you put lines on your monitor to aid dropping bombs? Just press f9 for hud view, it's got everything you need to hit targets. I think you're taking the piss... ;)
Macros are scummy, but putting tape on your monitor is hilarious. :)

[Chris_Redfield]

Wtf? Chris, you put lines on your monitor to aid dropping bombs? Just press f9 for hud view, it's got everything you need to hit targets. I think you're taking the piss... ;)
Macros are scummy, but putting tape on your monitor is hilarious. :)

Indeed I do. I use black marker to set additional HUD lines on screen. You see, I dont use the "standard" divebombing mode as most pilots do, and think they are good. I can attack any target, at any angle, at any speed, just give me enough time to line myself up and its down. Im not talking about a long stead approach.

I love "visually" aiming the targets, and release the bombs once the target is at the appropriate "zone". 3 lines is enough, but they help me to drop bombs horizontally, with an angle, you name it, I can do it.

I hardly think one line is "enough". And I never liked to use the "force" to drop my bombs.

Its hilarious for some, it creates elements of immersion, and is necessary for others.

The funny thing is, you tell me to use F9 key. Its like telling a genuine planewhore how to switch from missiles to bombs :P.

EDIT: This is how it looks like
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v636/Member_of_STARS/?action=view&current=Save.jpg&refPage=80&imgAnch=imgAnch87

Im lucky, Im practically the sole user of my PC, so whatever I do with it, is just my own business :P .

[Chodda]

lol you say "yay" or "nay" and then in your options you dont even include them, just put "yay" or "nay" as the choices. I don't think its cheating... its the same concept of a joystick... to make things "easier" for the player. It's not a hack or exploit because the games ALLOWS the use of it. The developers designed to game so joysticks and such would be compatible with it. Sure its not a cheat... but is dumb.. and so I say nay. The use of a macro shows no skill what so ever. I give props to the "noob" who does the tv missile like its supposed to be done, and I spit in the face of the macro user with 1291932131939 points

[Flares]

I can attack any target, at any angle, at any speed, just give me enough time to line myself up and its down. Im not talking about a long stead approach.
So can I... Toss bombing, single drops, different ripple distances, high level dive bombing, shallow dive bombing, level bombing, with one crosshair and a bomb fall line. Basically those lines you've drawn are in my head.
Although unless in a bomber, I don't go back and rearm bombs very often, cannons are good enough to get serious kills with. I tend to save bombs for tanks. :)

By using artificial aids you're crippling yourself, just like the macro users, but if it makes you feel better...

[Chris_Redfield]

Its not the same concept as joystick. A joystick makes it easier to control a jet within the limits. Youre still doing everything by yourself.

A macro lets you "skip" key presses in order to execute multiple functions with one keypress. Someone can be anal about it and compare it to aimbotting, where "mouse move" function is being skipped ;) .

I dont deal in absolutes in this case. I believe certain macros make the game a little more interesting for yourself. Like, creating a macro that would throw a grenade and swith to primary, same with medic bags. Its my intrepretion only though.

I cant accept the TV macro, or the mentioned LGM macro, and of course the jumper macro as being legit.

How I sort it myself would be-

Any macro that allows you to engage an enemy directly easier, is not acceptable.
Any macro that rises your life expectancy on the field, is not acceptable.

Macro that allows you to perform certain functions more comfortably, while not directly affecting OpFor players, is acceptable.


By using artificial aids you're crippling yourself, just like the macro users, but if it makes you feel better...´

"Figure out..."

Ive figured out how exactly the bombs drop and how to aim the HUD. I hardly call that an artificial aid, rather than just... aid. Its best to be used by new pilots, who dont exactly know how the thing works. The next step would be to take off those lines as soon as you feel you dont need them. However, I like them, they create a little more of that battlefield immersion.

You see, you are used to dropping bombs at the right time at the right angle. I however do that visually, and thats more sattisfying.

Besides, you cant cripple your skills with 3 lines, if you are good enough to use them effectively.

[disfigured]

The joystick comparison is an inaccurate analogy.

A joystick no matter how sophisticated doesn't allow you to execute complex key strokes with a 0% chance of failure. That is the difference. You may feel as a player that you can do it , but it's not possible to do it. You'll make a mistake, you'll hesitate between strokes, become distracted. You'll make these mistakes less and less as you get better but you'll still make them occasionally. With a macro that "human" element of imperfection is eliminated, and makes for a less interesting gaming expereince for everyone.

It also dosen't allow you to access more keys. Although some joysticks with more buttons then others are an advantage, they are not an unfair advantage. Because you can always use a standard keyboard has as many keys (if not more) within reach then most joysticks, even the most accesable ones. It's a differnt "layout".

Which relates to my next point, reachablility, if that's even a word ;).

The only macros that can be replicated "by hand", are the ones that have keys that can be readily reached while playing. As soon as you create a macro that skips around the expanse of a keyboard that during normal game play you couldn't possibly be able to replicate by hand, you've created something the human hand can't do.

You may be able to stare down at the keyboard and replicate it with two hands, but during game play it would be impossible. That's an "unfair advantage" created by an outside source. Because it's not software and is hardwired into the keyboard itself, is only splitting hairs.

I can't see allowing anything like this leading to anything but a worse gaming expereince all around. What's next (as was mentioned by me and another poster)? Entire macros for the beginning of rounds? Enter plane, take off, fly 1/4 mile in direction X, bomb carrier , rinse and repeat?

Because that's what will happen as you put technology in the hands of humans. It will only expand, become more sophisticated, and eventually be a standard everyone has to use. That's fine for most technologies, nailguns, autocad, but for gaming it doesn't make any sense. Would you like to see two great chess masters with computers behind them, and have them consult them for every move? It's the same thing. Who ever can afford the best most sophisticated computer win the chess tournement? While you might think gaming Vcards and Proccessors are similar to this they are not, If two players had to play a virtual game across the world from each other, the quality of the display created by the computers would not give either an advantage. I'll elaborate further.........

The Vcard and proccessor analogy is also inaccurate.

Frame rate is frame rate. If your playing at a 60 frame/second rate at 800x600, your not at any of a disadvantage to someone playing at the same frame rate at 1600x1200.

If you want eyecandy and sacrifice frame rate to do so, then your just giving yourself a disadvantage, and it can be easily corrected by adjusting your grahpics.

As much as some people don't like clans, and tournements you can useally look to them for what is considered a cheat, "unfair advantage", or something that violates the spirit of the ROE. Macros are not allowed in the leagues. That says a lot because they strive for a fair and even playing feild.

[lostinspace]

edited

[disfigured]

Good points , it might be here to stay. There is the whole hardware manufacturer big buisness scenario that can be very influencial.

If that's the case it could go either way.

If the programming is there in PB, then it was considered at one point that it would be not good for gaming. I think they were on the right track.

It's too much of a floodgate issue for me to say "ah well, it's here to stay".

I saw a show on modern fighter pilots who were given a chance to fly antique WWI biplanes and triplanes. To a "T", they all said it was much more challenging. All the conviences given them in modern fighters only made it less challenging and less difficult to actually fly.

What will macros create in the future? Will I be able to sit back, take a puff of a cigarette, hit one key, and sit back again?

Last league I was in, there were third party cheat protection (forget the name) . Some times the market can account for these "disagreements". Perhaps some ingenious programmer can create a macro detection type program. Servers can choose to run it or not.

[OCl]

If it were an exploit/cheat then (maybe) you should whine to the company that makes macro hardware.. After all, money = advantage in games.
I myself don't care about macro users.

[Red Devil]

It's not whining to complain about cheating. And what would complaining to the HW companies do? Nothing.

[lostinspace]

Macro's

§1.3 You may not change (hack) any core games files, load into memory or employ external programs or cheats for the purposes of giving yourself an unfair advantage over other players.

This would include but not limited to:
§ MSX and other 3rd party software.

there is a fine line when using 3rd party keyboard or mouse software for it's intended use or when binding it so it will reproduce movements or abilities that the normal player can not do..

You forgot:

http://www.BFROE.com
"
§ Items not included in this list would be up to EA & DICE to interpret.
"

Not ever have I read anything about macro's except in the interpretations of unofficial sources...



And some hypocracy:

"
there is a fine line when using 3rd party keyboard or mouse software for it's intended use or when binding it so it will reproduce movements or abilities that the normal player can not do..
"

The following thread became a sticky about a 3rd party programm which will just do that... allow for movements or abilities that the normal player can not do:

"
JoytoKey
A hard to find 3rd party application which can give all sorts of insane new functionality
" http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72603&highlight=joy2key

A thread created by a super moderator who is apparently against macro's, but who says on another forum:
"
I love my n52...macros work fine for me...but I never found any useful enough to actually use...so I don't use any.
" http://forum.eagames.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=21459&start=15


So excuse me for ignoring other peoples interpretations about these things...

BTW:

can anyone direct me to an official statement from EA or Dice about macro use specifically..?

-

[Chris_Redfield]

Thing is. JoyToKey most functions are actually possible to be done with simple line writing in the controls.con file.

[.Churr.]

I never used them myself, but sure, macros give their users unfair advantage. It's just BS when you barrel roll, do all sorts of acrobacies, and the guy still hits the TVGM. Every single time. This is insane, but it's also hard to detect.

They should NOT be allowed.

[Slapidus]

To me using a marco is no better then making a hack for the game imo,it gives the other people who don't use them an unfair advantage,so ppl who think there fine are the little stat whoring noobs of the game :D and if ppl don't like then they know where there sun don't shine and they can shove it there :D :laugh:

[RVPilot]

Which relates to my next point, reachablility, if that's even a word ;).

The only macros that can be replicated "by hand", are the ones that have keys that can be readily reached while playing. As soon as you create a macro that skips around the expanse of a keyboard that during normal game play you couldn't possibly be able to replicate by hand, you've created something the human hand can't do.
Evidently then anyone who remaps a keyboard is a "cheat" then?

Man has this gaming community degenerated over time. Virtually everything, and I mean EVERYTHING has become subjected to some new kind of litmus test to satisfy the masses. Screw that and just play the game. I remember a the days once upon a time when we'd be sharing macro's and patting each other on the back on forums like this rather than crying foul everytime a genuinely ingenious tweak or strategy was revealed. Not anymore though. Now it's rewrite the rules, or recode the game if you please. What a shame.

[DosX]

So holding down W, S and D at the same time (which can't be done on many normal keyboards) is a cheat?

If those keys CAN be held down together on a normal keyboard then it is NOT a cheat. The key is NORMAL gameplay.

Similarily, how is it less of an exploit if you make a macro to do something in less than 1/10th of a second what would take even the fastest legit player at least 5 times that to do?

Can NOT be performed during normal gameplay - cheat.

You need to define it differently, macros for radio commands (ie. Spotting an enemy, or telling people to get in to a chopper) are justified as they don't give you an unfair combat advantage. Macros like the Jump - Prone - Aim - Shoot bind do however, as it is impossible to replicate that if you press all the required buttons yourself.

If something is impossible to recreate using the keyboard then it IS A CHEAT.

Macro's are simply key combinations put together. Keyboards (G15), Controllers (Nostromo) and Joysticks all have the capabilities. Where the macro goes from acceptable to cheat is when people edit them to perform actions that would NOT be normally capable in game.

Something like holding down space, then clicking left mouse button 10 times in one second, then releasing space. Obviously illegal.

[Donkey]

The Vcard and proccessor analogy is also inaccurate.

Frame rate is frame rate. If your playing at a 60 frame/second rate at 800x600, your not at any of a disadvantage to someone playing at the same frame rate at 1600x1200.

If you want eyecandy and sacrifice frame rate to do so, then your just giving yourself a disadvantage, and it can be easily corrected by adjusting your grahpics.


I would have to disagree with this.... For I have seen BF2 on HUGE plasmas and let me tell you it is def an advantage.... When the enemy is about 6" tall where on a typical screen he would be 1", thus making it a lot easier to see them on the bigger monitor....Also having a computer that can handle 100% draw distance would be an advantage over someone who can not....

As for the macros I guess it really depends....Everyone can make a macro soooo it really isn’t an unfair advantage since you, if you really wanted, could make a macro...

That is like saying you need to limit what types of flight controllers people can use...Since a Saitek X52 flight control system (which is badass btw) is way better then say some Microsoft 30 dollar piece of plastic (debatable I know)....

It really is a tough call and I personally don't use macros although I could see their purpose....It actually is kind of intuitve and showing a will to do whatever it takes to win, something that is encouraged in warfare both virtually and reality based....

[lostinspace]

edited

[*FMJ*Power]

Open controls.con
bind your mouse-scrollwheel up and down to the fire command...
Bind mousewheel press to space...
save controls.con

Go ingame and scroll up and down on your mousewheel with a weapon while pressing it down at the same time...

Objective completed and it only took me half a minute to come up with it...

So how is that cheating..? I would call that a clever keysetup...
(This is where another kind of skill comes into play)

-


id pretty much have to agree, you can do alot more with the con file than any macro can do but everyone is crying about macros. the only macro ive seen that gives any advantage is the tv guided or the c4 chuck but theres no end to stuff you can do editing the con file.

[parish]

Well, since there is no way to sotp people fomr using macros, then I guess this whole thread is moot. Since all a macro does is allow a user to push some buttons just like they would normally, it's kinda hard to nerf. Some macros will let you set time between keystrokes and thereby look just like regular keystrokes to the game.

Oh well.... who cares.

[=MLK=stallzer]

Who cares? Alot of us do. I own a G-15 because it has the most bang for the buck (and it looks cool) I've never cheated in an on-line game and would never want to. The problem with cheats is that most people never even know they exist till they come to a forum like this and get the publicity they don't need. I never even thought of using my "G" keys on my logitech G-15 till I stumbled across this thread. Now I'm anxious to try them, and after reading the input of many I've come to the conclusion...Not a cheat ! I'm only using my hardware for what it's designed to do and it's available to everyone similar to CVAR tweaks used in RTCW. If it's available for everyone to use than I'm not really gaining an unfair advantage over anyone, you're just choosing not to use it.

[Chris_Redfield]

Who cares? Alot of us do. I own a G-15 because it has the most bang for the buck (and it looks cool) I've never cheated in an on-line game and would never want to. The problem with cheats is that most people never even know they exist till they come to a forum like this and get the publicity they don't need. I never even thought of using my "G" keys on my logitech G-15 till I stumbled across this thread. Now I'm anxious to try them, and after reading the input of many I've come to the conclusion...Not a cheat ! I'm only using my hardware for what it's designed to do and it's available to everyone similar to CVAR tweaks used in RTCW. If it's available for everyone to use than I'm not really gaining an unfair advantage over anyone, you're just choosing not to use it.

Yup. I mean, its not like you cant download the aimbot from anywhere. Right?

[=MLK=stallzer]

Yup. I mean, its not like you cant download the aimbot from anywhere. Right?

Again...This isn't something I'm down loading...Its HARDWARE !! That anyone can Purchase similar to An expensive video card setup that utilizes AA & AF @ 16 X , you don't think they have a slight advantage over say a 9600 pro user ? cmon people, everytime you die it isn't someone cheating. On line gaming is a billion dollar business and the name of the game is HARDWARE !! Nvidia and ATI aren't billion dollar businesses for nothing. The whole idea in on- line gaming is to get the best hardware money can buy (if you can afford it) to get the edge on the next guy, if that weren't the case you wouldn't have the 2000 dollar rig now would you?

[(4THIDUSA) SSG H.]

actually people who reduce the graphics get the advatage, no grass, no shawdows, higher FPS etc....

but macros do appear to violate this

§1.3 You may not change (hack) any core games files, load into memory or employ external programs or cheats for the purposes of giving yourself an unfair advantage over other players.


I mean a one push button, that lets you run, jump, prone, fire, stand up, run, reload, is a "cheat"

[Painboy]

Again...This isn't something I'm down loading...Its HARDWARE !! That anyone can Purchase similar to An expensive video card setup that utilizes AA & AF @ 16 X , you don't think they have a slight advantage over say a 9600 pro user ? cmon people, everytime you die it isn't someone cheating. On line gaming is a billion dollar business and the name of the game is HARDWARE !! Nvidia and ATI aren't billion dollar businesses for nothing. The whole idea in on- line gaming is to get the best hardware money can buy (if you can afford it) to get the edge on the next guy, if that weren't the case you wouldn't have the 2000 dollar rig now would you?

So if someone sold a mouse that had a built in aimbot that would be ok? Or how about a video card that automatically turned selected textures transparent or disabled the fog? I mean it's just hardware.

Say whatever gets you to sleep at night, but using macros in an FPS is cheating. If they wanted you to use them they would put them in the game and support them.

[Sloi sauce]

Uh, ok people.

§1.3 is self-explanatory: there's nothing to discuss, performance macros are a form of exploit/cheat, so stop trying to come up with excuses/justifications to use them. FFS.

[imported_=NAA=SHADOW]

just play the damn game! and stfu!

[HowieMandel]

Im gonna purchase hacks from that web site we all pretend we dont know exists, probally up my kills from my average of 20-30 per game (infantry) to about 60-80 per game....im sure. Doesnt seem like a stretch, if i buy that hack that has the ...mmm let me read the description again:
1.) Anti Recoil. Ooo yeah baby, that means pretty much insta death without much skill, cuz my guns not gonna rise up..... like it does now..i wont have to pay attention no more....point and click........especially in conjunction with.......
2.) Anti Bullet Spread. Well hell, this and anti recoil, come on.... If i shoot at 100 different people in a round.........please..........how many am i gonna kill? Sawwwwwwwwwwweet!!
3.)Full Time UAV for yourself. Well, come on. I can shoot any gun now like its a bow and arrow, and it dont matter how long i keep the fire button on.....the bullets go in direction. where my crosshair is. ANd that crosshair dont move....so...... PLUS i got my personal own uav surrounding me at all time. GOD......Shoot like a GOD, AND know where the enemy is 100% of the time??????? SAwwwwwwwwwwwwwweeet!!! Man im gonna be 13387334...or something.
4.)Commander Hack. OmgZorZs!!! Dude you make me mad, and even though im not the commander, im gonna rain down hell on your flag, whenever and as long as I want. With no reload time dude. I will OWN YOU!! Nah im not that mean, but i will pummel the flag im gonna cap first. And i dont even have to ask for arty. I dont need a supply crate call either, cuz i can drop one myself. Whenever i want. I AM THE MAN!!!!!!
5.)Anti-Fog. OMGOZROZ!! Dudeeezzzzzzzzzz. I can snipe like........like, from across the map!!! you got a problem with that noob???
6.) AIMBOT!!!
OMGOZROR FOR DA RIZZIE!!!! PWNEDORZZ!!! Dude i dont even have to do much of anything now. YOu think you are good?? I will ownzorz you, now.
I was trying to be somewhat funny, while providing actual truths. Which the above is true. And there are even more functions to this thing.

Oh i dont think this is cheating though, cuz i downloaded it, and paid for it.

Of course that logic only works for some people. The ones we wish would leave pc gaming, and go play on x-boxes at lil' johnnys house, on a split screen, 22 inch black and white television.

[xbrandomx]

The jump-prone-shoot thing doesn't bother me at all... I have to do it because I have to keep up with the teams that my team plays with (really really good teams... like best in the world teams).

My personal opinion is that its cheating... But I personally can't go to everybody's house and check the keyboard and say "hey, I think you're cheating".

Whatever- I can still kill them... even if they're using macros.

long live ghetto keyboard!(for those of us who can't afford a new "cool" board and can still kick yo ***)

[=MLK=stallzer]

So if someone sold a mouse that had a built in aimbot that would be ok? Or how about a video card that automatically turned selected textures transparent or disabled the fog? I mean it's just hardware.

Say whatever gets you to sleep at night, but using macros in an FPS is cheating. If they wanted you to use them they would put them in the game and support them.

1. There isn't a mouse available with an aimbot so hypothetical situations do not carry water .

2. No video card has the ability to turn off fog....again Hypothetical.

Again we are talking about Hardware that anyone can purchase. I suppose all the whiners crying Cheat are the ones who bitched enough to turn BF 2 into what it is now......Borked. Seriously people, again I say, everytime you get killed , quit crying cheat! The G-15 does not "Launch an external program" instead you are only using your hardware to it's fullest .

[[MyIS]Spetsnaz]

1. There isn't a mouse available with an aimbot so hypothetical situations do not carry water .

2. No video card has the ability to turn off fog....again Hypothetical.

Again we are talking about Hardware that anyone can purchase. I suppose all the whiners crying Cheat are the ones who bitched enough to turn BF 2 into what it is now......Borked. Seriously people, again I say, everytime you get killed , quit crying cheat! The G-15 does not "Launch an external program" instead you are only using your hardware to it's fullest .

There's a difference between crying cheat when getting killed and discussing whether or not macros should be considered cheating.

Macros bypass a limitation specifically created by game developers. Americas Army considers macros cheating, which is why you'll get PB banned if the PB scanner checks your key config file and finds multiple actions set under one key. BF2 would have this, but I think you aren't allowed to assign multiple actions to a single key in the key config file.

You cannot compare video cards, mice, joysticks, keyboards, etc to macros.

Traditionally, the logic in PC gaming was very simple:

You play the role of a character that has to accomplish an objective. In order to accomplish this objective, you can perform actions that are defined by the developers. Generally, each action is assigned a different key on the keyboard. On occasion, developers will mix things up by allowing the player to assign *certain* actions to multiple keys, but this is very rare as it may cause confusion.

What macros do is bypass the primary purpose behind playing the game -- actually pressing the buttons to perform the actions you need to take to win. Those that can press these buttons faster and more precisely will usually be victorious (other factors are at play as well of course like teamwork, luck, tactics, etc -- but we're talking about the individual player).

Using a joystick does give you an advantage over the players that don't have joysticks when flying, however this does not go against the game mechanics. Game are specifically created to work with Joysticks, but not macros (for good reason). If the developers wanted to, they could easily allow people to bind multiple commands to a single key -- no hardware needed. They don't do this for a reason. Joysticks also don't go against the game mechanics because they merely provide a means by which to accomplish the same exact action in a more comfortable manner. You still need to bank, you still need to dive, you still need to press the button to eject. The difference is that flying is more accesible with a Joystick, but it does not bypass anything.

People have been brining up analogies left and right, allow me to bring up my own:

Daytona 500. My stock car is fitted with a computer navigation system that will carry my car around the track. It's not as complex, since the track is round. My vehicle is then calibrated to calculate the distance between it and the vehicles behind and in front of it. It is also calibrated to turn perfectly via some extremely complex mathematical formulas. I think you get the point ...

By fitting my car with this nav system, I am bypassing a very important element of the race which is actually driving the car. In BF2, a great portion of a tactical battle relies on human error (someone screwing up) -- the same goes for Nascar (or anything for that matter). By "computerizing" your movements in game, you are basically turning yourself into an infallable machine when it comes to, say, jump+dive+defrib because you do it at the optimal speed every single time (without mistakes).

I know where the supporters of macros are getting at, I sort of understand their point, but cannot overlook those very important details.

I think until the macro users recognize that actually pressing the keys with their fingers is a significant part of the gameplay and plays an important role in how effective they are (human error, bad timing, etc) -- they will realize that having the computer execute these commands perfectly every-single-time is no different than having the computer aim for you or having the computer do something else in-game for you.

Until then, though, we will be in disagreement :)

[HowieMandel]

well said..........here here.

In all actuality i wouldnt care if they used macros. I wished they didnt, or at least felt like they shouldnt. I simply just want them to continue using them, and say........."why yes, yes, i am playing with a wee bit of advantage over most here in the server...yes, yes". I mean, if they can score dead last, or dead First........and say that, while using a macro....

bliss. wonderful.

But to use them, and then say......its normal..........its, ok.........its not cheating......its not bad........
thats what sucks.

[Bungalow_Bill]

1. There isn't a mouse available with an aimbot so hypothetical situations do not carry water .

2. No video card has the ability to turn off fog....again Hypothetical.

Again we are talking about Hardware that anyone can purchase. I suppose all the whiners crying Cheat are the ones who bitched enough to turn BF 2 into what it is now......Borked. Seriously people, again I say, everytime you get killed , quit crying cheat! The G-15 does not "Launch an external program" instead you are only using your hardware to it's fullest .
Are you really that stupid? It doesn't matter if it hasn't been created, but the fact that it could easily be created if a hardware developer wanted to. On the most basic level, the G-15 is a piece of hardware with memory and software onboard that interfaces with the computer. The computer simply recognizes this macro as a regular keyboard input. An aimbot is just a piece of software too that would send mouse input and move the mouse for you, but stick that on a mouse with 2 megs of memory and suddenly it's a piece of hardware and it's ok to use?

At the core level an aimbot on a mouse is no different than a macro utility on a keyboard. While a keyboard helps you perform complex key operations with ease (yet they have perfect timing and accuracy), while an aimbot mouse would help you perform precision aiming tasks with ease (yet it has perfect accuracy).

And don't think for a second macros don't give you a huge advantage. A couple months back I heard about the so called "TV guided" missile macros, so I did a little research purely out of curiosity. I found a macro program with relative ease on Google, figured out basic functions and within 10 minutes I wrote a script that created a toggle key that would activate a macro where if I clicked my left mouse button with the script on it'd click it roughly 20 times a second. After testing in single player to my amazement, flying a TV guided missile was no more difficult than flying an airplane. I'd have to say this simple macro increased my accuracy with TV missiles by at least 200%-300%, but as I have a conscious after doing my testing I promptly deleted the macro. That's certainly fortunate for all the legitimate non-cheating individuals I have since missed with TV missiles. But I accept that even if I had killed them with a TV guided missile macro, I wouldn't have earned the kill and thus it would've been meaningless.

In my research to create my own macro I also discovered user made macros, far more complex than my own. One individual had a macro that'd go a couple steps further that would on one key press jump in to the gunner seat and instantly fire a TV missile and start the guide mode. He could then guide the TV missile like an airplane and after it exploded it'd automatically put him back in the cockpit. If that wasn't enough the macro also generated a tone when his TV missile had finished reloading. So essentially one key press generated a complex series of functions with perfect timing and accuracy that'd be virtually impossible to do by hand. And you don't consider that a cheat?

If you don't, I can only consider that you're some kind of mental defect. And while most macros aren't this complex and don't provide the user with this huge advantage, they're still the same exact thing just to a lesser extent. Nobody would ever say an aimbot program is ok simply because it isn't a 100% accurate or only locks on aim if you're within an inch of your target. So why have the same attitude with macros?

[lostinspace]

edited

[RVPilot]

This grows wearisome. It is clear, no one is going to convince anyone else to change their stance on this issue . And resorting to questioning the intellect or motive of everyone who disagrees is usually a sign of intellectual dishonesty.

What it boils down to is the intent of the user and the spirit of the game. If you have a 55 year gamer whose reflexes aren't nearly as sharp as they were 30 years earlier, and that gamer wishes to ease the burdensome series of keystrokes, then so be it and more power to him. I hardly condemn such a player as a "cheat". And plenty of people who play this game have real lives that don't allow 2-6 hours a day to be wasted on a game to become proficient in skills that (when the day is over) mean absolutely NOTHING in the real world. Macros provide an alternative to many players who cannot afford the hardware to enhance the game and give them an equal edge, or who do not enjoy an ergonomic setup, or who may suffer physical ailments or disabilities that prevent them from ever achieving a level of prowess on the keyboard that so many teenagers and other high-and-mighty self righteous uber gamemasters enjoy routinely - then hold against the rest of the virtual gaming world.

So go ahead and give me twenty more examples of how unfair this is, and then include a statement of how life itself isn't fair when some people are less nimble than others, or some are born with physical handicaps, differring intellects or social skills . That's just life people. Play this game and deal with it.

The PGA won't allow players to ride in golf carts. A few years ago this was in the headlines due to one player having a physical handicap that made walking extraordinarily difficult for him. Ultimately, the rules were bent in his favor as they considered the hammer swung both ways. On the one side, he was unfairly resting between shots giving him an advantage, on the other, he was subjected to abnormally high pain and exertion when forced to walk - giving all the other players an unfair advantage. This was in a game where millions of dollars can be at stake on each tournament - and sanity eventually prevailed even there when they allowed him to use the cart. BTW, he never won the tournament anyway.

So until you can show me how Battle-Friggen Field is meaningful enough to compete with real life then I join the chorus of those who say "Who cares?". Because even in real life, exceptions to the ordinary are made on a routine basis and we seldom complain - even where those issues have a much more certain and profound impact on our daily lives. Just play the game. If you find you cannot enjoy it for fear of the way others "MIGHT" be playing it, then it's probably time to quit the game anyway since it's become too serious and important in your life.

[=IMO=THJones]

"hi my name is charlie i started with simple macros, seemed innocent at the time but now i have to actually pay someone to play the game for me because pressing the buttons on the keyboard like everyone else just got to be too much for me to do...."
quote from charlie on oprah

[Bungalow_Bill]

What it boils down to is the intent of the user and the spirit of the game. If you have a 55 year gamer whose reflexes aren't nearly as sharp as they were 30 years earlier, and that gamer wishes to ease the burdensome series of keystrokes, then so be it and more power to him. I hardly condemn such a player as a "cheat". And plenty of people who play this game have real lives that don't allow 2-6 hours a day to be wasted on a game to become proficient in skills that (when the day is over) mean absolutely NOTHING in the real world. Macros provide an alternative to many players who cannot afford the hardware to enhance the game and give them an equal edge, or who do not enjoy an ergonomic setup, or who may suffer physical ailments or disabilities that prevent them from ever achieving a level of prowess on the keyboard that so many teenagers and other high-and-mighty self righteous uber gamemasters enjoy routinely - then hold against the rest of the virtual gaming world.
You're right, it all boils down to the intent of the player.. and the intent of a player creating and using macros is to gain an advantage over other players to artificially inflate said users score.

"Boohoo! Oh woe is me, I cannot prone hope like a teenager anymore, damn you arthritis! I must use macros!"

Your justification for using macros is lame. If I were to apply that same logic to something like oh say.. the Olympics, it'd be perfectly legitimate for me to use steroid because I can't run as fast as the best sprinter because I didn't practice as much or my legs were shorter. The same comparison can be made with just about every competitive activity and sport known to humanity.

Just like every other lame justification in this thread none of that is an excuse to cheat. The most important reasons for that are the following: You do not have to prone spam to be effective in infantry combat (take it from me, while I can do it I do much better without it). You do not have to have a robot clicking the mouse wheel a thousand times a second to properly guide TV missiles. You can play the game just fine without macros, and if you've got a physical or mental limitation that prevents you from doing that as well as other individuals, too freaking bad. Finally, you do not have to best the best player on the server to have fun. It's a game for Christ sakes, and you're supposed to be playing it for fun and a little harmless and ultimately meaningless competition.

And again getting a computer than runs Battlefield 2 with silky smooth frames on low graphics is only a couple hundreds bucks, and in fact you can't get computer components nowadays that can't do that because they don't even manufacture them anymore! So again the hardware comparison is invalid. Other hardware that's a little close to macros, for example a joystick might be a more comfortable way to fly a plane for some, but I know many people who swear by a keyboard/mouse control scheme for a plane. But in the end, I refuse to believe someone who enjoys flying planes cannot scrape together 20 dollars for a Logitech 3d Pro. Hell it doesn't even have to be new, you could probably get a second hand stick for less than ten bucks.

In the end it's all just cheating, and trying to justify it for ANY reason whatsoever is completely unacceptable, and if you want to talk about the "spirit" of gaming and Battlefield 2 in general nothing goes more against that spirit of fair and fun competition than cheating. It's so logical I don't see how anybody could dispute what I've just said.

[RVPilot]

. Finally, you do not have to best the best player on the server to have fun. It's a game for Christ sakes, and you're supposed to be playing it for fun and a little harmless and ultimately meaningless competition.
I get the distinct impression from you this game is no longer just about having "fun". If it is (still about fun) then your statement applies equally well to you and those who spend hour after hour complaining about others and trying to determine their motives when formulating an argument against them. Just play the game and remember your own words: "playing it for fun and a little HARMLESS and ultimately MEANINGLESS competition."

[Bungalow_Bill]

I get the distinct impression from you this game is no longer just about having "fun". If it is (still about fun) then your statement applies equally well to you and those who spend hour after hour complaining about others and trying to determine their motives when formulating an argument against them. Just play the game and remember your own words: "playing it for fun and a little HARMLESS and ultimately MEANINGLESS competition."
No you're wrong. The very reason I am so opposed to macros is that it negatively impacts my personal enjoyment of the game when I encounter them. For example, I face off with another helicopter gunner. We both fire TV missiles. I miss, he hits. Only problem with the situation is he was using a macro which handed the victory to him. How would you feel about that? Because I know I'd feel like I just got a raw deal, and that player should've been banned from playing a long time ago.

Again, it's not fun to be unfairly killed, and it's not fun to being playing in a legitimate fashion, encounter a macro prone spammer and then getting killed as a result of it. The whole opposition to macros exists because it adversly effects the gaming experience of others by unevening the playing field and giving an unfair advantage to others.

Of course you can ruin someones time simply by being a better player and dominating on them (I happen to enjoy it, because I enjoy the challenge that comes with being legitimately beaten), but the difference between that an encountering a macroer is it was purely that players superior abilities that awarded him that victory, and not some chunk of code flawlessly performing some otherwise difficult maneuever in the game.

[RVPilot]

Well, I have followed you in various forums, including Planet battlefield, and I remember you for your well formulated and thoughtful posts - often in the face of unsubstantiated flames. One thing that stood out was the fact you always used a cool and calm counterargument, usually one based on the norm of the game.

Today however, I see a more frustrated PW who has begun using the extreme example of an obvious abuser and applying that argument against "normal" players. I do not agree with it, and suspect it is symptomatic of having entered a phase of gaming where it is no longer just a form of entertainment, but a way of life. In those circumstances, I can see perfectly well why you'd feel the way you do, and justifiably so. However, I do not share the extent of that passion for the game, along with many others, and am still able to flex to a degree in order to allow for the various types of gamers I share time with - and STILL enjoy the game.

I'm off to a business conference till Friday. I will leave the last comment in this argument to you. As always, it is a pleasure to interact with you on the forum.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Today however, I see a more frustrated PW who has begun using the extreme example of an obvious abuser and applying that argument against "normal" players. I do not agree with it, and suspect it is symptomatic of having entered a phase of gaming where it is no longer just a form of entertainment, but a way of life. In those circumstances, I can see perfectly well why you'd feel the way you do, and justifiably so. However, I do not share the extent of that passion for the game, along with many others, and am still able to flex to a degree in order to allow for the various types of gamers I share time with - and STILL enjoy the game.
I'm anything but frustrated with these forums, and especially Battlefield 2. In fact the only reason I post is I enjoy a good debate on these forums. I could imagine myself being frustrated if I was constantly getting killed by prone spammers and TV missile macros, but I'm not. That doesn't mean I don't see them, because I do. But in the end my for me at least my superior skill as an experienced gamer is enough to overcome a lesser player with a full suite of macros. I feel badly for the individuals who aren't as skilled as I am (to put it bluntly) and are cheat free, but continue to encounter macroers and are beaten as a result of those other players cheating. I could certainly understand frustration that would arise from such an unfair situation, similar to a J-10 pilot teeing off in an unfortunate and helpless F-35B pilot.

Any frustration I may personally display is a result of having to explain the same basic concepts of fair play on these forums over and over only to have them misunderstood or completely disregarded by certain individuals. You just can't reason with some people, the same kind of person who uses every macro they can get their greasy little hands on and would use hardcore cheats but does not have the nerve to do so for fear of being GUID or hardware banned and subsequently humiliated and written off as nothing more than some lowly cheater and not an amazingly skilled player.

Hmm, interesting concept... macroer cheaters are just people who couldn't handle the risk associated with aimbot cheating. Same motives, different methods.

[Red Devil]

The problem is the stats and the incentive it provides to cheat.

All the kids want the status they can brag about on their school playgrounds at recess and they'll do anything to get it.

"Hey, did you hear Jimmy Tucker has got 2 million points and is now a General??"

"ooooooooooooooo!!!"

[HowieMandel]

Actually, you can bind multiple functions to 1 key, by editing the controls.con manually... Like binding jump, parashute, position 1 in vehicle and inside view, to the Spacebar...
Something few people seem to be interested in...

Their loss...

yeah, i too find it strange that most people dont go, and mess around with game files, and edit things... i mean, what a crazy world we are living in. This is an outrage.!!!
PEOPLE OF THE WORLD......UNITE, AND EDIT YOUR .CON, .NET, .UTX and ANY OTHER FILE IN THE GAMES FOLDER...........STAND UP AND EDIT!

[Bungalow_Bill]

Stats have an effect I'm sure but most people seem to cheat to either enrage or impress other players (i'd say to be impressive is more common motive for cheaters). Counterstrike Source has no stat recording, yet cheaters are like the plague in that FPS.

[imported_[UTAC] Incognito]

I have a nostromo, I could do macro but it is cheating.

[Sheeple Police]

If you are going to use macros, why not just have the computer control ALL of your movements and all you will have to do is aim? Because if you want macros it will get to that point eventually.

What is the difference between a macro and a computer program controlling your player?

[Donkey]

I jsut find it funny that the people who say they care the least about their stats are the ones that tend to whine if someone else is "cheating" to boost their stats...Ironic dont ya think????

I can't believe this place **** out the Biznitch word....R u serisous??? that's being worse than the FCC....

[[PTG]KillAllFools]

It depends on how you think of it. Sure some may consider it cheating because you have an "Unfair" advantage. But all the things that macros do can be done with your hands. If you just train your hands (like me) to do things like prone crouch jump or F2 F1 for chopper then it isn't all that hard. If people want to spend an extra 50 dollers on a keyboard which gives them an advantage let them, because in the end i'll pwn them anyday.

[Sloi sauce]

You just can't reason with some people, the same kind of person who uses every macro they can get their greasy little hands on and would use hardcore cheats but does not have the nerve to do so for fear of being GUID or hardware banned and subsequently humiliated and written off as nothing more than some lowly cheater and not an amazingly skilled player.

I understand the frustration of clearly seeing a situation, only to be disappointed time and time again by supposedly intelligent people who refuse to accept things for what they are: it's true, you can't reason with everyone... and for that, I empathize with you as I've tried to do this far too often in the past. Your posts are well thought out and I enjoy reading them, but I fear that you'll eventually burn out like I did (repeated frustration at being misunderstood on forums), so take it easy and most of all, don't take them too seriously.

;)

[lostinspace]

I guess the conclusion of this thread can be that some concider macro's cheating and some do not...

The ones that feel they are cheats are frustrated about people using them and the ones using them are happy...

Also, it seems there are just a few people that realize that someone like solo chopper pilots who never seem to miss a tv missile, don't always use macro's, but may just be clever in their keysetup...
Beeing able to press 10 times a second for guiding tv missile, beeing an example of a clever keysetup...

I am pretty sure, that if I were to explain my keysetup here, some will concider it like cheating, couse they don't have the time or knowledge to adjust their own...

[jjames010]

it's funny how many people's decisions about macros cheating/not cheating is soley based on an "unfair advantage" arguement espically since the hardware is available for anyone to purchase.

So, I could easily construct the same arguement about 3 year old technology vs bleeding edge as I will do below.

A person running a 20 ping with 100+FPS rate against a dinosaur PC with a 20FPS has a clear advantage. Anyone want to call the bleeding edge user a cheater?

The G5, Razor and a few other mouse options out there have more keys. If I have more keys on my mouse I have an unfair advantage. Want to call that person a cheater?

If I live close to the server and I have a 60ms difference in latenc. That's an advantage as well.

My point. The hardware technology is here. Use it or not - it's not cheating. The G15 board does NOT hack the BF2 files.

I have the G15 - it's a great board but because the reach is pretty far from the WASD keys it's really more of a pain to run a macro since I have to move my hand off the primary movement keys in order to run a macro.

j

[lostinspace]

yeah, i too find it strange that most people dont go, and mess around with game files, and edit things... i mean, what a crazy world we are living in. This is an outrage.!!!
PEOPLE OF THE WORLD......UNITE, AND EDIT YOUR .CON, .NET, .UTX and ANY OTHER FILE IN THE GAMES FOLDER...........STAND UP AND EDIT!

Just incase you or anyone reading this, changes their mind and/or has questions about editing the keysetting file of battlefield manually:

http://www.forumplanet.com/planetbattlefield/topic.asp?fid=9020&tid=1671636&p=1

Feel free to ask me anything there (after dooing a search offcourse)...

It will make an end to all the invisible 'duplicate key found' stuff and other common problems with binding keys...

It will also make your game a lot more adjustable and userfriendly... I still cannot believe how much the developers simply screwed up in making a the current keysetup...

Have a good one :)

[bigpappa]

curse u macros, so thats why i saw a guy flopping around the other day.

[davis.cnj618]

nostromo 52 yay

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Ditto, the key layout is absolutley great. This nostromo n52 has been the best thing for my gaming. That and a good mouse - who needs macros?

While I have the ability to use them, I don't.

Besides, not a macro in the world will save someone walking around a corner into a claymore. :dead: After I see someone using macros, I use alternative methods to ruin thier day.

[SuperTyphoon]

It's funny how 85 loser noobs voted macros as not cheating, yet only 1 or 2 of them actually posted why with their opinions (most like they knew how much they would be embarassed).

Why play if the damn keyboard macro does all the work? Oh yeah, t's the points, i forgot. It's all about points and stats.

Hence why stats mean NOTHING.

It's quite funny though seeing a noob flopping around and shooting with perfect accuracy, i'll admit...

[jjames010]

It's funny how 85 loser noobs voted macros as not cheating, yet only 1 or 2 of them actually posted why with their opinions (most like they knew how much they would be embarassed).

Personally, I would like to see how this poll would change if per-say everyone had a G15 before voting. Then it would be more accurate reflecton IMO.

We can argue all day/night about this topic. Unless things have recently changed, TWL/CAL do not consdier the full use of a G15 as a cheat. It's called new technology. Use it or be gone with yourself. G15 FTW!

BTW - I owned before the G15. I continue to own now, with or without a G15 macro.

J

[abtomat74]

Poll needs a 3rd option: isn't cheating, but rather for players with no honor.

Anyone can "purchase" skill.

[Chris_Redfield]

it's funny how many people's decisions about macros cheating/not cheating is soley based on an "unfair advantage" arguement espically since the hardware is available for anyone to purchase.

So, I could easily construct the same arguement about 3 year old technology vs bleeding edge as I will do below.

A person running a 20 ping with 100+FPS rate against a dinosaur PC with a 20FPS has a clear advantage. Anyone want to call the bleeding edge user a cheater?

The G5, Razor and a few other mouse options out there have more keys. If I have more keys on my mouse I have an unfair advantage. Want to call that person a cheater?

If I live close to the server and I have a 60ms difference in latenc. That's an advantage as well.

My point. The hardware technology is here. Use it or not - it's not cheating. The G15 board does NOT hack the BF2 files.

I have the G15 - it's a great board but because the reach is pretty far