DICE on TotalBF2 - Game Feedback Answered

[[MyIS]Spawndemon]

Over the past few weeks, a number of you have participated in our DICE on TotalBF2 (http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=232) section to help out the testing and feedback process for the latest beta patches. We know a lot of you don't have the time to search through every single thread and find replies made by DICE employee Colin Clarke, so we decided to make a one stop page with all his posts. Here is one of the many questions/answers you will find:

Adamfool99 (Repair Points (http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84539)): I think the repair points should come more than they do now. It is easy to get heal points and ammo points but it is a pain in the ace to get even 5 repair points in one round. You have to literally do nothing BUT repair to get the Expert Engineer Badge. I think Repair Points should come more often.

Colin Clarke: Hi guys, there are not going to be any changes to the current scoring system. While I love the engineer kit, and some of the ideas I have seem posted are pretty entertaining (throwing land mines), any changes to the scoring system at this time would require a full overall evaluation.

Click here to check them all out! (http://www.totalbf2.com/page.php?do=diceanswers)

So to those that are still skeptical as to whether DICE actually reads the forum, we hope this puts that rumor to rest. We would like to thank Colin Clarke for being a part of our forum community and taking the time to read through all the threads and post some replies. It's great to see a community difference being put into this latest patch and we wish all the luck to DICE for a successful release!

Have a question of your own? Feel free to post all your comments/thoughts right here (http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=232). We will continue to update the page as more answers come in.

[Sir. Legolas]

cool good thing!

[kenof2142]

I'm actually suprised they're answering some of the questions...usually it's a blanket statement to cover all aspects mainly for a "just in case".

*breaks out dice voodoo action figurine*

;)

[Hurricane.CAD]

Repair points SHOULD come easier I see on need to 'evaluate' that.

The J-10 imbalance has been called on ever since 1.2, saying it MIGHT be fixed if there's enough time is INEXCUSABLE. Fix the bugs and gameplay issues that have plagued the game for a long time before adding useless things like vehicle drops, and killing squad switching.

[sknight]

The only problem is that for most of the suggestions, he answered negatively. "No we can't do more repair points," "we MAY change the J10 (but probably not)," "we won't add transports to vehicle only mode", "we won't give the squad leader extra points" and etc...

[Tren]

"Oh and I am coming close to offering a couple free AF codes to anyone who can get me a screenshot of the nametag bug in 1.4."

LOL!

Anyways...I am really glad EA is actually reading all of this stuff, now acting on it...that's a different story. I guess we will see.

[SuperTyphoon]

It's good to see that, but most of his answers were vague and blanket statements that didn't really explain anything.

[imported_UH60BHPilot]

That's all DICE/EA has been doing from the very start.

[DoubleVee]

So many threads(don't know the exact number) and only 9 answers, good job DICE!!...

[[MyIS]Spawndemon]

So many threads(don't know the exact number) and only 9 answers, good job DICE!!...

Just because there aren't answers to everything does that mean that the DICE guys don't look at it? That they don't take it into consideration? I mean come on...think about it for a minute. No answer doesn't automatically mean it wasn't seen.

[Zap_Branigan]

after 1 year of trying to fix this nametag problem im not optimistic it will be fixed this time around.

the repair points issue is something that does need fixing and i would imagine that it would be very easy to just double the number of repair points engineer get.

dice are putting up the facade of listening to the community but when they keep responding with 'no', 'maybe' and 'we'll see' its obvious they arent.

we've played this game for over a year with all its bugs which you cant fix and you wont give us what we want (J10) but insist on adding crap we couldnt care less about (visible UAV, inf only mode).

[Maniac-47]

It's good to see that, but most of his answers were vague and blanket statements that didn't really explain anything.
lol, that was my first reaction to reading the "answers" as well.
Also, a few answers were just a more polite way of saying "We hear ya, but no."
FPS_Player (Squad Leader Points): I would like to see some point system for the squad leader - maybe something similar to how the commander gets points...

Colin Clarke: We are always looking for ways to re-enforce the team work systems in Battlefield. This idea is right in line with some of the things we are thinking however the catch is we can’t always predict how some players will look to exploit any system introduced.

So, put more simply, "No way."
<p>Also, is he actually agreeing in saying BF2's Infantry Only Mode really does make BF2 mediocre??
PlaneWhore (Infantry only mode, worst idea ever):...Just as important, the Battlefield series defining characteristic is vehicle and infantry interaction. Battlefield without vehicles is like cereal without milk, it just doesn't make sense. Without vehicles (and to a lesser extent commanders, class balance ect…) <b>Battlefield 2 is nothing more than a mediocre shooter.</b>

Colin Clarke: So the no vehicles option will be exactly that.

And that thing about proof of the nametag bug?? How about he tries a little thing called READING to see that this isn't some new mythical bug a few people have reported. Blue turns up Red, its that simple. We all know it exists, it has existed for ages, do something about it.

I am not too thrilled about this attempt at listening to the public...

[Stalker-NSDQ]

Hi DICE
So far what I found and want to gripe about. Well first of all I agree on increasing the REPAIR POINTS. It takes definately to long to rack up some. In EURO FORCE there is a bug where first of all the TIGER HAP drops into the ground when you try to land to get repairs, result is instant death. Also when you swtich from regular view to TV GUIDED screen and back the crosshair is stuck and you cannot change the camera again, so pretty much you are screwed trying to gun something down. All this I have noticed on OPERATION SMOKE SCREEN. ARMORED FURY - Well like mentioned before, the recon choppers are way to heavy armed. It's kinda ridiculous when you are in a AH1Z or a MI-28 and get shot down in less than 10 seconds. MIDNIGHT SUN could take less AA SITES, makes flying damn near impossible if all AA Vehicles and AA SITES are up. SPECIAL FORCES - Only one complain so far are the choppers as well. Please put the TV GUIDED screens on the same level as in BATTLEFIELD 2. When you are in the HIND you almost have to fly reverse cause you have to put the nose up so high. LONGBOW is not so bad but still you have to tilt back quiet a lot. So far I am pretty satisfied, btw I will not gripe about the red name bug, CTD crashes and such since we all know they exist so far.

Thanx for your time

STALKER-NSDQ

[imoody]

It seems to me that DICE isn't particularly interested in doing anything other than fixing the CTD's at this point, which is frustrating, particularly because there are so many other high profile bugs that have been around for a very long time.

[Metalbolt]

It seems to me that DICE isn't particularly interested in doing anything other than fixing the CTD's at this point, which is frustrating, particularly because there are so many other high profile bugs that have been around for a very long time.

And who wants to bet the only reason they are interested in fixing that is because 2142 probably uses the same netcode, and they want to get that bug out of it. They're too busy with 2142 to really care about BF2, hence all of the "yeah, but no," answers.

[Mekstizzle]

Nice list. One more though, Claymores. Still a big issue, bigger than J10 (nah, just as big though) becuase SF is unplayable unless in a vehicle of some sort. Claymores everywhere and anywhere. That's not fun. Karkand is more playable than maps in SF as it isn't THAT linear. Plus you can see most of the claymores as the map isn't a dull grey claymore colour map. Same with Jalalabad, it seems like an SF map. Ladders everywhere, Snipers everywhere. Just get in a tank and blast away, who gives a **** about being a tank whore? You guys are ****ing snipers!

It's there in the DICE section, i'd like to see an answer.

[{CA} lucsious]

Dice has really dropped the ball but like all of us, I keep playing just till desert conflict comes out. Those guys are gonna perfect it just like how desert combat was!

[HowieMandel]

And who wants to bet the only reason they are interested in fixing that is because 2142 probably uses the same netcode, and they want to get that bug out of it. They're too busy with 2142 to really care about BF2, hence all of the "yeah, but no," answers.

THe nail has been hit on the head...........

[DuffMan]

All the questions that have been asked and those that have been answered can be stuck in a tiny column on one page...

[[MyIS]Dan]

Its good to see EA/Dice replying to the community :D

Colin Clarke: As mentioned before we might look at minor tuning changes to the J-10 only if there is time after addressing the CTD and stability issues.

I hope he means if there is time in this patch and not the rest of BF2..

:rolleyes:

[Deesies]

A lot of the answers came off as "We could do this but we can't really be bothered" :(

[kysterama]

*prays the mod teams finally get a finished game to work with*

[SuperTyphoon]

*prays the mod teams finally get a finished game to work with*

If a game has EA for a publisher or Dice for a developer, and it's on the PC, it's not going to be finished.

What's funny is that i have NEVER heard any response from Clarke or anybody else in Dice as to why the game is so sloppy and unfinished. All we seem to get for an answer is "We are trying to work out the bugs but at the same time provide new added bonuse to enhance the gameplay" and crap like that.

Does Dice even know how sloppy it is? Or do they just not care since BF2 is just a beta for 2142?

[gx.]

I still feel IO would be better with trasport helos with no guns and humvees with maybe and m-60 or m-24(0)(9) with little health (so m203 cabn take it out or nade) would work out for the game type.

[PoRn_DarkAngel]

BF2 will be fixed!!!

Of-couse you will have to wait till ETQW comes out so BF2 can be modded on a proper engine and platform.

[Dangerdog]

I agree ETQW won't be any fun out of the box, it'll need a BF2 clone mod to make it worth while.

On the topic of Q&A, how about an update on the beta patch, are we through testing? is there going to be another beta patch???

[TheShocker]

To Colin @ DICE

You mentioned you like sniping, don't you think that staying hidden is something that a sniper relies on to survive? Remember how deadly a sniper in 1942/vietnam was when you didnt have a SCAN option. Is there any way to remove the snipers from being spoted on the scan?

Usually The comander artillaries just 1 sniper or drops a car on them, couldn't you make the Artillary only be deployable at the request of a squad leader? Thus enforcing more teamwork!

Cheers, please reply bro.

[[MyIS]Spawndemon]

If you have questions, please post them in the DICE on TotalBF2 section. They will be looked at over there.

[imported_matgn03]

Dice has really dropped the ball but like all of us, I keep playing just till desert conflict comes out. Those guys are gonna perfect it just like how desert combat was!

"those guys" aren't the same as the ones that made desert combat, so dont get your hopes up.

[flippy199]

yaaaaay, now they are saying "screw you, you're just the gamers, we aren't gunna listen to your suggestions" to us INDIVIDUALLY rather than as a group!!

all these CTD issues that they are focusing on first are less important than the j10. if i get disconnected from a server occasionally or have a crash to desktop, im not even close to as pissed as i am when im flying a jsf in wake and there is a j10 on me and i do crazy turns and drop flares and i watch in the reverse view as the j10 launches 2 rockets and and they avoid my flares and fly in perpendicularly to my direction and then turn instantly and kill me. THAT is ********.

[colony]

Yea its ridiculous

The biggest gameplay/balance issue ever has still yet to be addressed/fixed. I think they are in denial or something

[Deesies]

yaaaaay, now they are saying "screw you, you're just the gamers, we aren't gunna listen to your suggestions" to us INDIVIDUALLY rather than as a group!!

all these CTD issues that they are focusing on first are less important than the j10. if i get disconnected from a server occasionally or have a crash to desktop, im not even close to as pissed as i am when im flying a jsf in wake and there is a j10 on me and i do crazy turns and drop flares and i watch in the reverse view as the j10 launches 2 rockets and and they avoid my flares and fly in perpendicularly to my direction and then turn instantly and kill me. THAT is ********.

No it isn't.

[jarm8181]

You know I've been playing this game for a year. I've had a lot of enjoyment in that year playing, I think I've put in 700 hours. I know damn well I've gotten more than my money's worth out of this game. I haven't put that kind of time into any other game I've purchased in the past. I also know there's no way I could have made a game like that.

It's interesting to see so many people carry on like little children, insisting the world should be exactly like the way they think it should. As if they could've done a better job making a game, and the fact they've been playing it for a year, means it's not as bad as they make it out to be.

Have I had my frustrations with this game? Yes. But with any endeavor in life, you have to weigh the positives with the negatives. It's been more of a positive experience than a negative one, which means it's been worth playing.

Should we voice our concerns and wishes for changes and fixes for the game? Yes of course. But the way people carry on, you'd think we were entitled to these changes. Not to mention, one person's wish for a gameplay tweak is another person's dread of a gameplay change. Everyone is not going to agree on what the perfect Battlefield game should look like. If you don't like the game, why have you been playing for a year? And if you have grown tired of it, try out some of the mods. Or *gasp* try purchasing another game!

[imported_Mongo Only Pawn]

Regarding the increase (or lack thereof) of repair points -

I would like to know from this community, who DOES have the expert repair, and how did you get it?

Thought process being, if you got it legit or by some sort of 'stat padding' maneuver. If 100 people reply and like 5 got it legit, then there is most certainly an issue with that. I guarantee that the other badges are much easier to get by comparison.

[kenof2142]

I would like to know from this community, who DOES have the expert repair, and how did you get it?

Thought process being, if you got it legit or by some sort of 'stat padding' maneuver. If 100 people reply and like 5 got it legit, then there is most certainly an issue with that. I guarantee that the other badges are much easier to get by comparison.

I got it but it took me like 3 solid days...I was sitting in an apc in warlord and sas kept coming back to destroy assests and by mid round (10 on 10 on a 64 player map) I had 25...I honestly couldn't believe it because all the other times I got like 17 or 18 and a few 21's but never enough to get expert repair. I would repair uav and arty on the east side of the map then drive over to repair scan and other arty and next thing I new uav and the arty I JUST repaired was already blown up...I looked around and didn't see the spec ops but I did get a few kills but it was mainly repair points.

It just takes the right "time" to get that badge...sucks though. Expert supply = a damn joke to get and expert heal was a little harder but not as hard as expert repair :hmm: .

[AH-1Z_COBRA]

I think you should get a repair point for every repair you do, instead of getting a point for repairing vehicles in which people are in it.

[DuffMan]

I think you should get a repair point for every repair you do, instead of getting a point for repairing vehicles in which people are in it.
That would be exploited so much it's not even funny.

[keeganv]

ok kool

[iB@32]

Jam
You know , yesterday I logged in UT2K4 and got that strange feeling that the server will crash in 2 minutes, but it didn't, wow what a surprise! took me some time to get into the "stable game" feeling.

UT2K4 is also a very complicated game, and it runs perfectly, saying that a game is complicated is no excuse for releasing an unstable build, if DICE couldn't fix BF2 before this Christmas, they should have released the game one year later.

Releasing a unfinished program is a serious market-ethics issue, you cant expect from a publisher/developer that does such thing, to actually act in a appropriate way. we need to face it, we have been deceived to waste money on unfinished game, the only thing we can do about it is to stop buying EA products until they'll change their policy.

[Eden]

Jam
You know , yesterday I logged in UT2K4 and got that strange feeling that the server will crash in 2 minutes, but it didn't, wow what a surprise! took me some time to get into the "stable game" feeling.

UT2K4 is also a very complicated game, and it runs perfectly, saying that a game is complicated is no excuse for releasing an unstable build, if DICE couldn't fix BF2 before this Christmas, they should have released the game one year later.

Releasing a unfinished program is a serious market-ethics issue, you cant expect from a publisher/developer that does such thing, to actually act in a appropriate way. we need to face it, we have been deceived to waste money on unfinished game, the only thing we can do about it is to stop buying EA products until they'll change their policy.
That wasn't Dice's decision, overall Dice Sweeden are doing a good job but in the end its EA who say when the game is released, its EA who say what bugs get fixed and what bugs don't get fixed, its EA who say what stays in the game and what goes.

Dice just code the game with the time they are given by EA.

[<EsP>Fury]

That wasn't Dice's decision, overall Dice Sweeden are doing a good job but in the end its EA who say when the game is released, its EA who say what bugs get fixed and what bugs don't get fixed, its EA who say what stays in the game and what goes.

Dice just code the game with the time they are given by EA.

While I agree with you than an independent Dice would not have released a product that has had this many issues as BF 2 has their fate was sealed when EA began the proccess to buy them and ended when the sale was complete.

We have been dealing with EA in the driver seat from the start and this is why the game is in it's current state and I doubt it will change much.

The Dice of DC died along time ago.

Our only hope is the mods as so many have stated.

[0wn4g3]

All it takes is for me to read a thread like this until my blood starts to boil. First of all Jarm8181 let me be the first to tell you that you are part of the minority when it comes to BF2. Let me begin this freaking diary by quoting numerous things in your post.


First, “It's interesting to see so many people carry on like little children, insisting the world should be exactly like the way they think it should. As if they could've done a better job making a game, and the fact they've been playing it for a year, means it's not as bad as they make it out to be.”

Perhaps some are carrying on like little children but the majority of them are not. When you take a look at the big picture, EA is a huge corporation, perhaps the Walmart of gaming <- don't quote me on that just something Ive heard. At any rate these guys are out to make money because every corporation somehow someway turns into a money feast. Also look at how many resources/supposed talent/license EA has. Of course this game could have been better. As Sir Typhoon stated earlier in this thread, the game was released as if no one at their development studios tested the damn thing. It's as if they have no clue.


Those who play BF2 are gamers, of course but they are also consumers. Many of us who have been with the BF Franchise since BF1942 pre-ordered and purchased BF2 for $50-$60.00 USD more or less in different countries with different currencies. That makes us consumers. We had no idea by means of the beta test and the trailers shown that the game was going to turn out this way. As a consumer we have every right to ***** and moan about the company/parties involved about how bad this product we purchased really is. Most of us have given over a year's worth of patience to EA/DICE and I feel that 1.4 will truly be the tipping point or at least I hope so. The bottom line is, there are thousands of angry consumers or customers who purchased an expensive bug ridden game that shows ALMOST no signs of getting any better.


Second “It's been more of a positive experience than a negative one, which means it's been worth playing.” Glad to see that your not experiencing CTD's every other time you play or when your about to get that really hard medal or badge. Also glad to see that you are actually able to play on servers that get you through the entire round without crashing. Why don't you share with us your secrets to fun and consistent gameplay.


Third “Should we voice our concerns and wishes for changes and fixes for the game? Yes of course. But the way people carry on, you'd think we were entitled to these changes.” In many ways we are since we are the consumers and we purchased a broken product although this wasn't known at the time, it certainly has been proved over and over and over again. As I said before with all of the reactions from EA/DICE and their supposedly community involvement and all of this hype surrounding 1.4 I believe it is the tipping point either sending hundreds of people over the edge of insanity or placing many people back over the good side of the fence willing to forgive EA somewhat.


Fourth “Not to mention, one person's wish for a gameplay tweak is another person's dread of a gameplay change. Everyone is not going to agree on what the perfect Battlefield game should look like. “ Guess what, I totally agree with you on that subject.


Fifth “If you don't like the game, why have you been playing for a year? And if you have grown tired of it, try out some of the mods.” First of all I don't see many retailers taking back BF2 for an exchange or for a refund at this stage of the game or I would of done so already. There are a ton of reasons why someone would still be playing this game even though it is at this point. Things such as team or clan commitments, perhaps it's the only game they have, perhaps one is waiting and waiting and will wake up one day to see that EA has fixed all of the wrongs with a right patch. Also playing mods is a good idea but keep in mind that a lot of the bugs/glitches caused by the actual engine of BF2 and the games code will also in a lot of ways affect the mods. Also keep in mind that these mods contain their own set of bugs/glitches so it seems like a never ending circle of holes to fall into.


I also think that a lot of people play BF2 just because they are dedicated to the franchise. They have this hope that BF2 will one day be an excellent game overall that the majority of people can enjoy. Where the bugs are just little nuisances rather than game ending/crashing experiences.


Ok so there are my points based on your post that I wanted to get off my chest. Now I want to spill my beans with this thread. First of all let me start off by saying that their responses to these questions appear to be on the "We could do this but we can't really be bothered" But, in numerous reviews and interviews surrounding BF2142 we are promised that a lot of what we complain and gripe about is fixed. We are told that they have learned their lesson and that BF2142 will be the best thing ever released.



I understand that they are working on 2142 and are turning everything into a sales pitch for the freaking game but as I see it, 2142 is a revised and optimized BF2 engine. Therefor just how hard would it be to implement a lot of the fixes in 2142 back into BF2. I mean cmon, it seems like all of the problems in BF2 are translating to a good sales pitch for 2142. Does anyone else see this situation is this retrospect?


Who remembers BF:V Redux? At the time I really think they just released that as a quick money maker for all the suckers out their however at this point in time I wouldn't mind them taking BF2 and REDUXING it and then re-releasing it at a very discounted price. Maybe provide a voucher or something to get it really cheap for all of those who have purchased BF2 originally. That way people who wanted to play BF2 could get that version for $20 or so and all of us consumers who have had to put up with EA's bullcrap for the past year would finally get a stable product. Or at least thats the gist of the idea.


Let me also tell you how much the media hasn't been helping. You get these sites like TBF2, Planet Battlefield, All these gaming magazines, Battlefield Podcasts and others gaining the opportunities to talk to people such as Colin Clarke or an EA/DICE developer and the only thing they can do is ask about 2142 so they can be the first ones with the news to generate traffic and what have you. They don't ask questions such as

“Wouldn't it of made sense for EA/DICE to release a hotfix that at least immediately addressed the server crashing issues caused by 1.3?”

“Why do you keep adding more content to the game when in the end it causes new problems to arise?”

“Do you guys at EA/DICE ever see a day where BF2 will be a quality product that doesn't make a consumer feel like they have been ripped off?”

“Why is it that EA/DICE claim to have fixed numerous bugs from BF2, a game that has been purchased by thousands of people into a game that no one has purchased yet?”

“Why is it that near the beginning of BF2's life cycle EA/DICE promised to give mod teams the same exact tools the developers used to create the game, then didn't deliver on their promises. And when EA/DICE finally released the mod tools they were shipped broken?”


Ohh that's right, it's because if you grew the balls to ask the questions that matter (while keeping in mind that in my eyes these are just some of the questions that I feel matter) it would be the last time you ever got an interview like that. Really now someone tell me why the media can't ask questions like that?


Ok I have spoken my piece for now and have calmed down. The more I see Sir.SuperTyphoons forum posts the more I like him lol.

[SuperTyphoon]

All it takes is for me to read a thread like this until my blood starts to boil. First of all Jarm8181 let me be the first to tell you that you are part of the minority when it comes to BF2. Let me begin this freaking diary by quoting numerous things in your post.

... ...

Ok I have spoken my piece for now and have calmed down. The more I see Sir.SuperTyphoons forum posts the more I like him lol.

OMG... i am speechless at your whole post which was too long to quote. Every damn thing in there is accurate and totally right. If Dice read that, who knows what would happen. I have nothing else to say, nothing can top this post.

Oh and thanks for the comment. As you can see, i know how EA (mostly) works and gladly give my opinions of how EA treats us like crap with bf2.

EDIT: The last three numbers in my post count are 666 as of this post...

[<EsP>Fury]

Awsome post 0wn4g3 right on point.
I think you scared jarm8181 off.

Hopefully one day we will find a company that treats it customers they way they should.

Till then we must wait for the mods.

[0wn4g3]

Heh finally someone who agrees with me and someone I can agree with. That **** doesnt happen to often.

The honest fact of the matter truth is that the only real way for businesses like EA to listen and to bump up the quality level of their products is to speak with your money and by not purchasing that companies products. Unfourtanetly EA is so big that even if everyone on the TotalBF2 forum did'nt buy 2142 and boycotted it, they would probably still make a profit from all of those that still bought the game.

[Jumintiger]

Totally agree with you Ownage. WE as the consumer need to crack down and seriously say, "WE WILL NOT GIVE YOU MONEY UNTIL YOU GIVE US SOMETHING WORTH IT". And just say that we will not take any more bull crap from a company that will only destroy what could have been a good game.

I'm playing BF2 till the end. And then when 2142 comes out, I will go to stores that sell it and put post it notes on all the copies that say that the game contained is total and utter crap.

[|TOC|Forgotten_1]

In regards to 0wn4g3's post. RIGHT ON MAN!

I couldn't have expressed your novel any better, and it really does sum up this BF2 B.S.

They are making BF2142 out to be the improved version of BF2 with everything fixed. That utterly disgusts me!

To be honest, after beta testing BF2 for over a year now so they can build BF2142, I have been ripped off! For the thousands of dollars my team has invested into providing a community server that continually crashes because EA/Dice completely lost track of how to be our teammate, and especially for the ignorant failed delivery on the promises they made us believe for BF2, that to this day still exist.

I will be moving my focus over to Armed Assualt (ArmA) once that is released!

I've been with this Franchise since day 1 of BF1942 and am quite saddened by all of this.

[imported_|TOC|Beachwood]

I too will be moving on to Armored Assualt. It is more of a simulation based first person shooter, and BF2 is more of a "PlaySchool" version of combat. I was an Infantryman in the U.S. Army, so almost everything about the U.S. weapons/vehicles in BF2 really make me laugh. If you are reading any of this EA/DICE get your head out of your *** before you lose any more loyal fans. As for me it is too late.....

[|TOC|TerribleOne]

Holy Dangleberries. That was a long post pwnage. Everything has been said. It is quite sad when EA/Dice turn all of their custumers into beta testers for BF2142. Anyways...

[0wn4g3]

Hmm I would be interested in seeing a reply or two by those so called media groups such as TBF2, PBF, BF Podcast ect reply to my media topic.

[jarm8181]

Awsome post 0wn4g3 right on point.
I think you scared jarm8181 off.


Scared me right off? Oh yes I was so scared at the big bad post that "Own4g3" posted. I have never in my life been so scared at such a profound collection of words typed out and displayed right before me on my computer screen.

Since you and "Own4g3" (clever name, I get it, that's what you kids call "leet speak" right? It's pronounced Ownage. A word that surely can be found in Webster or Merriam) seem to be unemployed or on summer break, you seem to think a couple days past would mean I was "scared off".

To address some of the "nonsense" of Ownage's post:

All it takes is for me to read a thread like this until my blood starts to boil.

I made your blood boil? Are you that psychologically damaged that a post about a computer video game would make your blood boil?

First of all Jarm8181 let me be the first to tell you that you are part of the minority when it comes to BF2.

Which should mean what? Ever heard of Argumentum ad populum?

Let me begin this freaking diary by quoting numerous things in your post.

And a long winded diary it is. I think one day it will be found in your attic and be published, perhaps it will be even more popular than the Diary of Ann Frank. Yes I can see it now. The Diary of Mr. Ownage, subtitle, "How a gamer lived through the horrors of playing a game for a year and got no satisfaction".

Perhaps some are carrying on like little children but the majority of them are not. When you take a look at the big picture, EA is a huge corporation, perhaps the Walmart of gaming <- don't quote me on that just something Ive heard. At any rate these guys are out to make money because every corporation somehow someway turns into a money feast.

Yes quite the astute observation. A corporation, like every single other business in existence, is out to make money. In fact, we all go to work, to make money. In such a profound way, you seem to have finally stumbled accross the concept of "Capitalism", the notion that people voluntarily trade goods and services with one another. Very good Mr. Ownage! And you certainly are not in the minority you speak of that's acting like a child.

Also look at how many resources/supposed talent/license EA has. Of course this game could have been better. As Sir Typhoon stated earlier in this thread, the game was released as if no one at their development studios tested the damn thing. It's as if they have no clue.

Yes, and as I said, there were negatives to the game. Thanks for belaboring the point.

Those who play BF2 are gamers, of course but they are also consumers. Many of us who have been with the BF Franchise since BF1942 pre-ordered and purchased BF2 for $50-$60.00 USD more or less in different countries with different currencies. That makes us consumers.

Yes very astute observation once again! You have discovered one component of "Capitalism", the "consumer". Yes, a "consumer" is defined as the individual that exchanges "currency" for a good or service in return. Bravo!

As a consumer we have every right to ***** and moan about the company/parties involved about how bad this product we purchased really is. Most of us have given over a year's worth of patience to EA/DICE and I feel that 1.4 will truly be the tipping point or at least I hope so. The bottom line is, there are thousands of angry consumers or customers who purchased an expensive bug ridden game that shows ALMOST no signs of getting any better.

You've given a 50 dollar purchase, a video game no less, a year to contemplate? You say it's not gotten any better, have you played the same game that I have? Do you honestly think the game has not gotten ANY better since its release?

Glad to see that your not experiencing CTD's every other time you play or when your about to get that really hard medal or badge. Also glad to see that you are actually able to play on servers that get you through the entire round without crashing. Why don't you share with us your secrets to fun and consistent gameplay.

Oh yes! I've certainly had my fair share of CTD! No secret there Mr. Ownage. Yet it doesn't CTD every single second of gameplay for the entire year. No Mr. Ownage, in fact I've gotten full rounds of gameplay, with those badges and awards you speak of. But once again, as you so astutely point out, there are negatives with the game. Since I already pointed out there have been negatives about the game, I've still had a blast playing it over the past year. Hence, the positives outweigh the negatives. Perhaps one day you can understand the concept of cost-benefit analysis, but alas, you seem to have just grasped the concept of "Capitalism" and "Consumer", let's not get ahead of ourselves shall we? Perhaps next year we can get to that part of the cirriculum.

First of all I don't see many retailers taking back BF2 for an exchange or for a refund at this stage of the game or I would of done so already.

A refund a year after the product was purchased? What store on this planet Earth can you get a refund a full year after you purchased a product?

There are a ton of reasons why someone would still be playing this game even though it is at this point.

I'm sorry, was this a sentence? Even though it is what at this point? A game?

I also think that a lot of people play BF2 just because they are dedicated to the franchise. They have this hope that BF2 will one day be an excellent game overall that the majority of people can enjoy. Where the bugs are just little nuisances rather than game ending/crashing experiences.

Would such dedication in the face of such adversity, really be a rational choice of action? No less, playing the broken terrible videogame for a year's time? That is some kind of dedication. Although I suspect it's not just this abstraction of "dedication" you speak of that keeps people playing this game for a year now. I have not met anyone that would put them self through that kind of torture for a year's time. Could it perhaps have something to do with the game being fun to play? Nah, it's dedication to the franchise and some fleeting hope after a year's time and several patches the game will finally be fun for them. Makes you wonder what mystical powers this game has to keep them so dedicated in the face of such irrationality. What makes them so stupidly masochistic?

Ok I have spoken my piece for now and have calmed down.

Well that's good. Don't want that blood boiling. I'd hate to think I would be the cause of a heart attack. Didn't know I had such a profound affect on you Mr. Ownage. Good luck with the game.

[SuperTyphoon]

Scared me right off? Oh yes I was so scared at the big bad post that "Own4g3" posted. I have never in my life been so scared at such a profound collection of words typed out and displayed right before me on my computer screen.

Since you and "Own4g3" (clever name, I get it, that's what you kids call "leet speak" right? It's pronounced Ownage. A word that surely can be found in Webster or Merriam) seem to be unemployed or on summer break, you seem to think a couple days past would mean I was "scared off".

To address some of the "nonsense" of Ownage's post:



I made your blood boil? Are you that psychologically damaged that a post about a computer video game would make your blood boil?



Which should mean what? Ever heard of Argumentum ad populum?



And a long winded diary it is. I think one day it will be found in your attic and be published, perhaps it will be even more popular than the Diary of Ann Frank. Yes I can see it now. The Diary of Mr. Ownage, subtitle, "How a gamer lived through the horrors of playing a game for a year and got no satisfaction".



Yes quite the astute observation. A corporation, like every single other business in existence, is out to make money. In fact, we all go to work, to make money. In such a profound way, you seem to have finally stumbled accross the concept of "Capitalism", the notion that people voluntarily trade goods and services with one another. Very good Mr. Ownage! And you certainly are not in the minority you speak of that's acting like a child.



Yes, and as I said, there were negatives to the game. Thanks for belaboring the point.



Yes very astute observation once again! You have discovered one component of "Capitalism", the "consumer". Yes, a "consumer" is defined as the individual that exchanges "currency" for a good or service in return. Bravo!



You've given a 50 dollar purchase, a video game no less, a year to contemplate? You say it's not gotten any better, have you played the same game that I have? Do you honestly think the game has not gotten ANY better since its release?



Oh yes! I've certainly had my fair share of CTD! No secret there Mr. Ownage. Yet it doesn't CTD every single second of gameplay for the entire year. No Mr. Ownage, in fact I've gotten full rounds of gameplay, with those badges and awards you speak of. But once again, as you so astutely point out, there are negatives with the game. Since I already pointed out there have been negatives about the game, I've still had a blast playing it over the past year. Hence, the positives outweigh the negatives. Perhaps one day you can understand the concept of cost-benefit analysis, but alas, you seem to have just grasped the concept of "Capitalism" and "Consumer", let's not get ahead of ourselves shall we? Perhaps next year we can get to that part of the cirriculum.



A refund a year after the product was purchased? What store on this planet Earth can you get a refund a full year after you purchased a product?



I'm sorry, was this a sentence? Even though it is what at this point? A game?



Would such dedication in the face of such adversity, really be a rational choice of action? No less, playing the broken terrible videogame for a year's time? That is some kind of dedication. Although I suspect it's not just this abstraction of "dedication" you speak of that keeps people playing this game for a year now. I have not met anyone that would put them self through that kind of torture for a year's time. Could it perhaps have something to do with the game being fun to play? Nah, it's dedication to the franchise and some fleeting hope after a year's time and several patches the game will finally be fun for them. Makes you wonder what mystical powers this game has to keep them so dedicated in the face of such irrationality. What makes them so stupidly masochistic?



Well that's good. Don't want that blood boiling. I'd hate to think I would be the cause of a heart attack. Didn't know I had such a profound affect on you Mr. Ownage. Good luck with the game.

You actually took the time to write all that:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[imported_DANK]

^^^^^
You copy and pasted that whole thing; irony.

He answered all the questions with the cold hard truth.

PCs are complicated and I think most of us who have been gaming and doing PCs as a hobby understand the business and the shorter impatience of today's users.

Unfortunately the minority will continue to get shorted on some ends; that is just the way it works. You cannot satisfy everyone in the land of Utopian PC world. Sometimes the minority will be the majority who are shouting on the net (Linux?) and some people just do not care about the little problems and go on with their lives.

I have had some bad investments in PCs losing out on money because of incompatibility; it sucks but suck up the tears and march on. Not saying to not complain but do not exaggerate the problems.

[<EsP>Fury]

Fanboy's like Jarm8181 can be a real pain sometimes.
You seem to like making excuses for them.
The bottom line is this no one blames EA/Dice for making a profit they have shareholders & Board to answer too. What I object to is shoddy workmanship
and putting out a product that by any measure you care to use is substandard CTD memmory leaks & server crashes every few hours are UNACCEPTABLE!!! Their responce to these problems is also unacceptable and please don't try to tell me they did not know it had all these problems. What they should do is stablize the code base first i.e. fix those issuses. Then if they wish add new content or change the game play they are free to do so. Since this game came out every patch has introduced more bugs than they have fixed and game play has suffered and before you start I am not one of those dolfin diving bunny hoping numb nuts its true I have almost 1400hrs in this game but that does not mean I am going to sit back and take it. They have screwed up big time and they really should make it right and not some half a""sed atempt and they should do it ASAP.

[0wn4g3]

Since you and "Own4g3" (clever name, I get it, that's what you kids call "leet speak" right? It's pronounced Ownage. A word that surely can be found in Webster or Merriam) seem to be unemployed or on summer break, you seem to think a couple days past would mean I was "scared off".


Ok first of all I have no association with that user who posted about scaring you off.


Secondly, my handle on the forums displayed as 0wn4g3 has been my handle for a number of different things over the course of a few years. I am what you would call a netizen and followed through with the whole craze of leet speak as it's called. 0wn4g3 is a lot better than ownage because it's not taken on a number of the forums I frequent. Who cares if you can find it in Webster or Merriam. I bet if I look up jarm8181 I'll end up with the same results from looking up 0wn4g3.


Thirdly, I do not understand how you can automatically assume that because of fury's comments we are both unemployed or on summer vacation. I have a 40 hour a week job working the 3^rd shift at a grocery store that nets me about $400.00 a week. I think that remark you made is pretty arrogant to say the least.


You didn't make my blood boil per say. I read this thread and it was yet another thread that showed how bad of a job EA/DICE is doing. My tolerance level for EA/DICE is just about nonexistent and I am now in the process of speaking my mind on a lot of the issues I see. Many people bash EA and do so without any thought. I at least take the time to think out my explanation for my reasoning and thus presented it in that forum post I made. I also read your post and just wanted to clearly illustrate that you are part of the minority that enjoys BF2 and that was the critical issue I was trying to get across. Wouldn't it be better if in fact the minority of people were the ones who disliked BF2? Chances are this thread wouldn't even exist if that were the case since so many people would be enjoying BF2 too much to register and ***** about it.


Instead of debating my post it would appear as if you stripped a lot of what I said and turned it into personal attacks which is not necessary and does not look good on your part. My bit about EA being a huge corporation was just to show that like every other corporation so it would seem cares too much about money and their bottom line more so than the quality of the products they are selling and their customers.



Further evidence that relates to this fact is the way EA/DICE are marketing 2142. Instead of providing a voucher or coupon to purchase 2142 they are instead marketing that game to be the fixed improved version of BF2 which I think is a bad business practice. In my mind that means I have to shell out $50-$60 more bucks in order to get a supposedly good product when the product I already purchased from the same company is a load of crap.


My bit about consumers was merely an explanation of your comment “Should we voice our concerns and wishes for changes and fixes for the game? Yes of course. But the way people carry on, you'd think we were entitled to these changes. “ Because we are consumers and because we spent our hard earned money on their product and instead got a bunch of crap then yes we are very much entitled to these changes that we discuss. If these changes took place and the majority of people could agree on them it would at least justify the cash we spent on this game.



“You've given a 50 dollar purchase, a video game no less, a year to contemplate? You say it's not gotten any better, have you played the same game that I have? Do you honestly think the game has not gotten ANY better since its release?”

As of right now, No I think the game has not gotten any better since it's release. It has done nothing but get worst. I don't want to voice my opinions on this matter alone but instead just check out the backlog of all the community updates / patch releases and they shall speak the truth for me. I think of BF2 this way, One Step Forward Two Steps Back. That is BF2's motto. As for playing the same game you have? I guess not since your having fun and quite a blast playing while I am having a hard time just finishing a round without seeing my desktop.


Please explain “concept of cost-benefit analysis “ so that today may be the day I understand it. “but alas, you seem to have just grasped the concept of "Capitalism" and "Consumer", let's not get ahead of ourselves shall we? Perhaps next year we can get to that part of the cirriculum.” your basically insulting my intelligence based on the text I have placed on the forum. I am not a moron by any stretch of the imagination and my previous post is evidence of that fact. I just like to view things by looking at the big picture.


I only said “First of all I don't see many retailers taking back BF2 for an exchange or for a refund at this stage of the game or I would of done so already. “ because this was my explanation to your comments of “And if you have grown tired of it, try out some of the mods. Or *gasp* try purchasing another game! “ Instead of getting my money back you would like others to spend even more money looking for a quality product. Sure I could try out some of the mods but I already explained why I haven't. “Also playing mods is a good idea but keep in mind that a lot of the bugs/glitches caused by the actual engine of BF2 and the games code will also in a lot of ways affect the mods. Also keep in mind that these mods contain their own set of bugs/glitches so it seems like a never ending circle of holes to fall into.”

“There are a ton of reasons why someone would still be playing this game even though it is at this point. “ Ok so you found something terribly wrong in my dialog which translates to a possible run on sentence. Quite honestly I am glad you didn't call the grammar police on me as well. Oh well, this little rant has nothing to do with the big picture.


“Would such dedication in the face of such adversity, really be a rational choice of action? No less, playing the broken terrible videogame for a year's time? That is some kind of dedication. Although I suspect it's not just this abstraction of "dedication" you speak of that keeps people playing this game for a year now. I have not met anyone that would put them self through that kind of torture for a year's time. Could it perhaps have something to do with the game being fun to play? Nah, it's dedication to the franchise and some fleeting hope after a year's time and several patches the game will finally be fun for them. Makes you wonder what mystical powers this game has to keep them so dedicated in the face of such irrationality. What makes them so stupidly masochistic? “

I am part of a BF2 team that has been together since the early Desert Combat days. We are a group of people that enjoy playing the same games together and from DC onwards we have been big fans of the BF Franchise. Playing with your friends and team mate is fun which is why we continue to play together in BF2 despite everything that's wrong. This is some of the dedication I am talking about. For many the ranking system and the prospects of having fun on those few servers that have good players is enough to keep them playing.


What I am trying to say is that many people do not want to spend the money on other games. Secondly many people that play this game know for a fact that this game could be so much better so they wait and wait and wait for that time to come hoping that EA/DICE get off that cash flow horse and come back to reality ala 1.4 perhaps? “Makes you wonder what mystical powers this game has to keep them so dedicated in the face of such irrationality. “ It's not really a mystical power but the power of HOPE is pretty strong.


“Well that's good. Don't want that blood boiling. I'd hate to think I would be the cause of a heart attack. Didn't know I had such a profound affect on you Mr. Ownage. Good luck with the game.” You alone could never give me a heart attack and you are not the sole reason I posted in the first place. I merely stated my opinions that related to this thread along with my opinions based on your apparent happiness with this game. EA/DICE could give me a heart attack due to the amount of anger they generate but not you.

[DuffMan]

All thie macho crap over problems with a video game. Please.

[0wn4g3]

All thie macho crap over problems with a video game. Please.


What are you talking about?

[Chris_Redfield]

Im certainly not a fanboy of EA. Not for a long time. The crap that Burnout is now, and which awesomeness it was before, is enough for me. I deliberately put BF2 on a shelf (well, traded for a "period of time" with my buddy for SWAT4 TSS) after I got my dose of the game. I can honestly say that since the Demo, to retail, up to somewhere in Septembr, I got my full enjoyement from the game. It was good. I paid for 1.0 version of the game. Not 1.3. And so did you. And 1.0 didnt crash that whole lot, my crashes came from my weak system, and that spretty much it. Up until DICE started working heavily on gameplay balance, things went downwards. So basically, you can blame the whiner, yet dont try to excuse EA/DICE for their poor sense of responsibility.

Anyway, what Im trying to say is, whoever wants a refund is a total retard. You got the game in the form it was meant to be played at first, play it. It was good enough. How much did you pay for the game? 30-60 bucks? Was th emoney worth it? For me, hell yes. Im also not the kind of guy who has one game on his PC just in case a patch ruins the whole game. Ive got variety.

Im also the kind of guy who, in case of a severly ****ed up patch would just revert to the best settings that worked for me, until a good patch comes out. I mean, how dumb do you have to be to not to accept such a simple solution (temporary!) for a problem such as this?

I support what Ownage has said, with some disagreements, but I also know the other side of the argument.

Be reasonable god damnit! Patch aint working? Stay with 1.22 until it gets fixed, then move on to 1.4. You dont like inbalance? New gameplay? Revert! Its as simple as it can get.

DICE is under the pressure from the community and EA. So if you REALLY want to help to get things changed, get that head out of your *** and propose a viable solution to the problems. I know bitching and moaning is fun, but self-moderation and some reason wouldnt hurt either.

[colony]

As much as I hate the fact that there are still gameplay balance issues and bugs, you have to expect that 2142 will be better not because of this stupid conspiracy of bf2 being a huge beta for it, but because of the time with the engine. BF2 was a whole new engine, and with new engines come bugs. As the devs spend more time with it, they find tricks and ways to improve it and eliminate bugs.

Anyway, they have two different teams working on Battlefield at the moment, which they arent always on the same page.

The biggest problem is the huge wait for the server crash fix. The crash to desktop happens like once every 6 hours or so of gameplay for me. Server crashes happen much more frequently which is ridiculous.

[{TKM}MiK]

Well done ownage mate, keep fighting the fight for those of us who see the truth.

[Apostle]

All thie macho crap over problems with a video game. Please.

Because you're above all that, aren't you? :laugh:

[DuffMan]

Because you're above all that, aren't you? :laugh:
Yes, yes I am.

[Apostle]

Yes, yes I am.

Hehe. :)

[[DICE]CKMC]

Heated debate. Much like most others here over 3 pages.

Regardless. I believe I mentioned in the thread that read "DICE READ THIS - outline for the perfect patch" or along those lines:

The split seen in this thread is very indicative of the split on nearly every issue around BF2. I found it interesting that in this thread there have been a few posts setting the J-10 concern above CTD issues. The level of this split and the fervor shown in by people in their defense of their views just shows the passion this community has for the game. Honestly it humbles me to have you guys be so intense.

Moving along. Yes my replies are very obtuse because its a simple transfer of information I am noting. Its also completely accurate that no post from me does not mean that the thread has not been read.

However my answers must be obtuse because I can not give a guarantee that something will be addressed since anything that is going to be fixed has a risk assessment. Then, in some cases, a fix or adjustment is attempted even if the assesment shows that it would be unwise to make that attempt. Then the change is reviewed and kept or discarded.

This whole proccess often happens with little to no visibility to you as a player. Speaking as a player I know that the reaction is often "That sucks you should tell us anyways." Unfortunately this is not the way things work. While I would like to expose things I can not as it then invites review and criticism of internal process; which would then require further internal exposure and on and on...

Yes I realize I just wrote "I would like to expose things..." and expect there to be some humorous stab; or perhaps a not so humorous stab.


Regardless. My overall point is that there are very few 'easy' choices when ever we make a review for any patch. Unfortunately for 1.4 we did have a very easy choice that really was not a choice: Fix the CTD's.

Cheers,
-C

[imported_jerryhopper]

CKMC']Yes I realize I just wrote "I would like to expose things..." and expect there to be some humorous stab; or perhaps a not so humorous stab.


Interesting reading colin :)
what can i say? being 'open' is good in many ways, but also bad.
isnt there a path in the middle?

i remember my days with RavenShield and the CinciHighSpeed TS.
were like hundreds of people hang around, waiting for 'MR.X' some quasi popular dude, that had a ****LOAD of inside information! patch release dates, content release dates and more. i would love to see something like that in the BF community.
for what i know of that guy, i think the information MR.X had, was a deliberatly information leak, set up to 'warm up' the community. Since this guy was not represented by the gamepublisher, people didnt even bother to ask him things. we were happy with what he brought everytime!

right now, i think the bfcommunity is dominated by negativity, which is hard to turn around.
Some exclusive content released by the 'smaller' community site, except always the bigger ones ( gamespy etc ) would help.
today people just dont feel 'connected' with EA/DICE, and thats causing the heated discussions.


On the issue that people thing that you dont 'read' threads, there is a simple solution, since there are numerous forums, where people post things, and a lot of the same posts are made on different sites, its simply logical that you cannot reply, but if there was some centralized system, like a modded bugtracker, you could at least acknowledge certain things, which would improve the 'communication' factor.


Over to that Exposing thing again....

http://www.webturd.com/images/colinwebturd.jpg
did you wash your hands after holding that turd?

( and colin, if you like a real one, PM me a post-adress, and we'll send a real Battleturd your way! )
;)

[RocketChild]

I miss the .PLAN files John Carmack (and to a lesser Tim Willits, McGee) released. He was a busy guy too. But he kept a blog that outlined the overall direction he and Id were going. It was helpful to see what they were planning in the near-term and the future.

Often it could get a little deep, because he was a developer. But you got a sense that there was a solid direction. It was not as cosmetic as many other software houses are. He gave his insight, philosophy, and opinions.

Being someone that has had to work directly with executives, developers, and departmental managers, I understand the financing and politics involved with user acceptance and internal decisions.

But as a community member, I think most of us would like to see a massive list of items that are addressed. Actually, just a bullet point list of yes, no, to be addressed in future. Something that shows every suggestion ever made and what the verdict is.

People want to know, are there going to be patches 1.5 and 1.6? Are there going to be more maps? Are you going to retroactively add in extensions/functions to BF2 that are built out for 2142? Are we going to see new content? What is our future as a community? Are we going to be forced over to 2142 because BF2 is abandon? Will we more boosters come out? Will new content arrive for current boosters? Are we going to see functionality change for current weapons and kits?

I have read the changes in the beta change log, but I still recall of the lists of things that were going to be addressed back in 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4…where are we progressing to? Everyone expects a lot, but when you are on top, and you make something great, people expect nothing less then continued excellence.

I think the community is uneasy right now because we love the product, we loved the past products. But is DiCE going to join the ranks of Id, Blizzard, and Valve? Or are they going to become another ION storm, Westwood, and MicroProse(Sid Meier).

[SuperTyphoon]

With EA and Dice, everything is so secretive about patches. FFS we don't even get a full changelog for any patch released!

[0wn4g3]

right now, i think the bfcommunity is dominated by negativity, which is hard to turn around.
Some exclusive content released by the 'smaller' community site, except always the bigger ones ( gamespy etc ) would help.
today people just dont feel 'connected' with EA/DICE, and thats causing the heated discussions.
I have to agree whole heartedly. It would appear that BF2 has brought out the worst in public players even though quite a few enjoy and love the BF franchise. I believe that out of common sense the CTD issue is of the utmost importance right now over any other issue involved with BF2. What I don't understand is why it has taken EA/DICE over 4 weeks from the release of the 1.3 patch to actually discuss the server crashes and then mention they are being worked on for 1.4. No one will ever ask a representative from EA why they didn't at least release a hotfix once they determined the cause of the CTD.

Another thing I don't understand is how some of the issues that revolve around BF2 are present patch after patch after patch but yet new content seems to be added as if it's no problem. Then the new content is added which introduces more problems that are now present in combination with problems that were already present. The J-10 issue is the hottest BF2 game issue in debate right now that has been in existence ever since the game was released. For those of you who don't believe in god give the J-10 a try, it's as close as you get.

Jerry mentioned a bug tracker type approach that is seen in combination with many open source projects. I think they would need one hell of a database server to store all the problems this game has. They really wouldnt be able to confirm anything because if we take a look at the past it's pretty evident they don't test crap. If we go back to the release of the BF2 demo, we will see that CTD's were rare and from there on almost every prevailing issue in BF2 has either existed since the release of the game or has been introduced into the game by EA/DICE themselves.

You know, you EA/DICE guys are doing all of this work with the community now a days with the 1.4 patch will be the patch that makes or breaks this game for good. Before the 1.4 patch there was really an out of contact approach to the way you guys did BF2 and I am talking about becoming ONE with the majority of the BF2 fan base. Whatever happened to holding Map Making contests where the best 5 maps made it into a map pack in the next patch and those maps were of course free? What a lot of community involvement it took to create Special Forces/EuroForces/Armoured Fury. The only involvement I can remember dealing with these booster packs is casting a vote on a poll published on the official BF2 site. What the hell did that lead to? A product I had to pay for when instead you could held some sort of contest where the COMMUNITY really got involved.

This entire Chain effect really sucks when the top most links are so crappy. We have EA/DICe in total control of the game, able to modify, fix and add things to the code. Then you have the server administrators and the GSP ranked server providers that of course enable us to play on ranked servers, then the actual client or what I like to call consumers, you know the people that bought the game. This entire chain reaction of crap is getting tiresome. EA/DICE releases a patch, the patch does more harm than good, all GSP automaticly upgrade to this new crappy patch, now all ranked servers are affected, clients are forced to upgrade to the crappy patch because the servers are upgraded and now the client gets to experience the server crashes, the CTD's and the long awaited announcement from the guys at the higher level that there is a problem, wait a month or two and we will try again. Just sucks being held by the balls by the top level and being able to do jack crap about it except ***** and moan, with the 1.4 open beta being the exception of doing anything about it


Deep down I wish that the world could stop while the entire team of people involved with BF2 would just erase all of the mush that is apparently inside the teams head. Then when the world began to spin again they themselves played the game they created and can experience first hand what it's like to play a bunch of crap within 15-20 minute intervals.

[RocketChild]

With EA and Dice, everything is so secretive about patches. FFS we don't even get a full changelog for any patch released!

Really, it was 3 weeks? before we heard that 'yes we changed something at the last minute that created server/client problems and crashes'. I never saw anything in the change log that I could point to and say ah, there it is. It was just some major obvious changes and then the "and some minor code modifications".

I don't want to rip on DiCE too much, I love their product. I loved it so much that I dropped a paycheck to upgrade my computer. But I don't want to pay for mediocracy again in software. Thats it, over, the end! I am not buying 2142 till I demo someone elses copy for a little bit.

At least when I buy an Id product, I know it is solid, out the door and when something is wrong, they fix it. They build their product for the future, not the present. There is a F'ing reason why Id and Valve license the hell out of their Engine. Because they make it beyond flexible, they future proof the things. Them boys up the street from me know how to take care of their market.

I think the BF community is pretty big, when I look all the active readers in all the English battlefield forums, I think GD! there is a lot of us! Then you start factoring all the other countries that play and are contributing to other forums that are not English, MF there is a lot of us.

It is crazy some of the stuff I read about BF outside of what I read in our forums. When you have mag editors ripping the game support, wow. It is just not here we discuss it.

God, I love the product DiCE has produced, but when I see a competeing product released 14 months after its sister software, I start to wonder, why should I get migrate? People still play Quake3, hell that is the choosen game for this years' CPT. Haha, A LOT people still play Starcraft! I just don't see the point with competeing with yourself. I wouldn't be surprised if EA will only allow DiCE to build out new games to bring in new revenue. I have known people personally that have worked for software houses that EA has done this too.

Maybe I just wish to see what Sony did with Everquest, they took and gave the whole Everquest community the new Everquest2 engine and put it into the old game which could play side-by-side with Everquest2. How fabulous was that!?

How about while I am on it, why not some community ranked maps? What is hard about that? If they are played well, they must be balanced off. If DiCE CA has a rendering box sitting around, maybe the could just run the maps through the device to clean and tighten them up a little. I am sure community members would not mind handing over their work to DiCE/EA. There is certainly enough creativity and man power out there to move on this.

Sigh, I know it comes off harsh when your reading my post, but inside, I still love the product and don't want to see it abandon.


This entire Chain effect really sucks when the top most links are so crappy. We have EA/DICe in total control of the game, able to modify, fix and add things to the code. Then you have the server administrators and the GSP ranked server providers that of course enable us to play on ranked servers, then the actual client or what I like to call consumers, you know the people that bought the game. This entire chain reaction of crap is getting tiresome. EA/DICE releases a patch, the patch does more harm than good, all GSP automaticly upgrade to this new crappy patch, now all ranked servers are affected, clients are forced to upgrade to the crappy patch because the servers are upgraded and now the client gets to experience the server crashes, the CTD's and the long awaited announcement from the guys at the higher level that there is a problem, wait a month or two and we will try again. Just sucks being held by the balls by the top level and being able to do jack crap about it except ***** and moan, with the 1.4 open beta being the exception of doing anything about it

HAHAH, you got your post in before me and it is the same thoughts WTF!

But to add to what I am quoting you are right, this only hurts the greater BF2 community at large. We here at TotalBF2 (and other BF2 forums) are only a fraction of the greater community. We here are more in the no then the occasional 14 year old that does not stay in touch with what is going on. There are a lot of people out there that just saw the game get worst, never got an official EA notice (instead they got Buy Armored Fury Ad) saying hold tight we are hard a work. Then they leave, and the community is more reduced. Now execs think people don't like the game, so they push harder to move on, when all they had to do was own up and inform the people that are not 'in the know' that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Instead, with 1.4, we loose 2 thousand more players, and there goes future revenue to DiCE for another possible booster pack or ranked server.

[[MyIS]Spawndemon]

List updated with four more questions/answers:

http://www.totalbf2.com/page.php?do=diceanswers

[Scinto]

i cant view that page from work :(

[imported_Aegis159]

Spawndemon']List updated with four more questions/answers:

http://www.totalbf2.com/page.php?do=diceanswers

So you're telling me, that through ALL of the reported bug/errors/glitches that they can only answer 11 questions?? And half of these "answers" aren't even real answers.... ??? Is that what YOU call good community relations????

[USI_Krusher]

Does anyone think that the code was so convoluted when it was written, that they cannot fix things? That they'd have to overhaul the entire code?

I wish they'd just come clean, and admit they cannot fix some things. That would be suicide for them, so it will not happen.

Remember they were going to have snipers be able to pick up clays, then they couldn't because they felt that "the community just isn't ready for that"? WTF is that? That is the most BS non-answer I've seen. Will the community ever be ready for it? Puh-leeze!

Red tag bug still not fixed? AT and TOW missiles still going through vehicles? CTD's? Left click to fire a TV missile, and nothing happens?

Who cares? we've got visible UAV's. We can drop cartillery!

Arrrgggghhhhhh!!!!!

[imported_samfisherchaos]

hey colin how bout an anti smacktard weapon or key for 2142 i love the taunt idea and wots the secret of these commander toys for conquest mode in 2142??

[jameslcross]

It's good to see that, but most of his answers were vague and blanket statements that didn't really explain anything.

Init!

[Murph1]

nice.